How did the U.S. become the epicenter of the pandemic?

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by Natty Bumpo, Mar 29, 2020.

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  1. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't look like we were taking the threat seriously.
     
  2. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Biden wasn't in charge.
     
  3. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    We didn't use the WHO test. Trump screwed up.
     
  4. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Three years into his Presidency ... he's supposed to have the training wheels off by then.
     
  5. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Trump was conned by XI because he was eager to be duped, back when he was falsely claiming he had COVID-19 "under control."

    [​IMG]
    “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus.
    The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency.
    “t will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People,
    I want to thank President Xi!”

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...chinese-governments-most-useful-idiot/608638/


    Trump lauds Chinese leader Xi amid coronavirus panic
    February 7, 2020
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/feb/7/donald-trump-lauds-chinese-leader-xi-jinping-amid-/



    When Trump finally realized he had been set up, he became very pissy and started calling COVID-19 the Chinese virus.
     
  6. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Wait, say as little as possible, and then be in a position to second guess.
    Serious enforcement of social distancing, testing, testing, tracing contacts. Supervised isolation of people entering the country. Help for people isolating to get things they need. Improvement of COVID-19 benefit programs through employers. Improved support for small business.
     
  7. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    The Orange Man is bad, and America is the epicenter. The rest of the world is doing just peachy.

     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
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  8. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Testing has helped in downtown Vancouver in Canada with a density as great as NYC.
    But when numbers of new infections drop, resuming intensive testing will be important.
    Business--mostly the right--aren't interested in trading $20/hour service sector jobs for the $2/hour manufacturing jobs we shipped overseas. Blaming the left who have long fought to save low skill, high wage manufacturing jobs is a bit much.

    In any event, it's long past the day when we can resort to protectionist policies. Foreigners will retaliate over tariffs and that will make it difficult for us to sell overseas to get the foreign exchange we need to buy raw materials.
    I know. Trump is cynically pandering, trolling for future votes. Manufacturing jobs that do come back are high skill jobs where there is a lot of value added, not the low skill jobs that were associated with high pay.
    "Simmer down?" An interesting comment on your part when projections are we'll run out of ventilators in many cities. Sounds Trumpian.
    Sure, ever thus. And Trump claims credit for courageous efforts by health care workers. De Blasio told people it was okay to go to the movies long after anyone with any sense would sit near people in a movie theater.

    But Trump is entirely blameworthy for not preparing soon enough to get PPE produced, enough respirators, and sending mixed signals about the seriousness of COVID-19.
    Mardi Gras should have been cancelled. She should have made the decision on her own. People would have been pissed off, but even dotards would be thinking she did the right thing now.
     
  9. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Too bad the ventilator stockpile ball got dropped on Joe Biden's watch.
    But now it's Trump's fault for not fixing in three weeks the mess it took Obama years to make, right?
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  10. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    And with that plan you have to balance that sort of thing with our American way of life here or you risk tension. Serious enforcement of social distancing requires actually enforcing that in the form of law enforcement or the National Guard or something patrolling around flat out telling folks you WILL comply with this. The reason why States are choosing the plead with citizens and close down public places in order to herd them back home but haven't largely installed law enforcement to keep people home. Nobody wants to be the Mayor or Governor who instilled a policy that even had a hint of martial law in it. That is not a popular position to take in America regardless of the reason why. That's a sticky situation, not saying it's the right or wrong answer but realistically our elected officials are just that, elected. Even in the face of a pandemic like this if these officials replaced "please" with "or else" in regards to shelter in place then that won't likely be very popular anywhere. And when keeping your job requires you to be liked enough to get re-elected I can understand why officials are hesitant to do this.

    The other suggestion I agree with for the most part although I'd like to hear more about HOW to do those things and how the current Administration is falling short in those regards. But the first one is controversial. It's easy for us to say just do the right thing but when these folks require re-elections to keep their jobs it's not always that simple.
     
  11. tharock220

    tharock220 Banned

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    An ad hominem is replacing an argument with a personal attack. I didn't omit an argument, in fact I said epicenter isn't the correct term. Whether you know the definition or not is irrelevant. The United States is not the source of COVID-19, and infections aren't spreading outward from the United States.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
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  12. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I noticed that I still have eight of them left over (I enjoy making things even though I could easily hire someone). Dirt cheap, really.
     
  13. TheAngryLiberal

    TheAngryLiberal Banned

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    Neither is Mike Pence, but he certainly has a Big role in working to contain this Coronavirus epidemic. Apparently Pence is at least a THOUSAND! times more the Vice President Biden was.
     
  14. TheAngryLiberal

    TheAngryLiberal Banned

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    Vancouver BC doesn't even have CLOSE! to the density of New York, Vancouver Population is around 675,000 and New York City is 8.5 Million and has at least twice the Population per Mile Density. I've been to Vancouver BC many times and it isn't even close to New York.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  15. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you know why we didn't? And can you cite how the president might have been responsible for not using the test? It sounds so scandalous until you know the underlying facts, but seems you don't.
     
  16. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Start with police, but troops if need be. We're at the point where the American people are not going to put up with a------s doing what they want.
    People know why now and I believe will support it.
    Let me come at this another way.

    Anti-vaxxers today get exemptions from schools for their kids. Now, let's say we get a vaccine for the coronavirus and have an anti-body test. Do you think people are going to put up with anti-vaxxers enroling their kids in school without proof the kid had COVID-19 or a vaccination? I don't. The kid will get the vaccination or home school. I don't think the teachers' union would put up with it, either.
    I won't vote for a pol who fails to act and especially not one who points the finger at others for what was in their power to do.
     
  17. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Part of Vancouver has incredible density.

    [​IMG]

    I live in the Vancouver area and have been to NYC many times. The area you see is as dense as NYC. There are other parts of Vancouver that have single-family homes.

    The point ... Vancouver has, with testing, been able to keep COVID-19 to a low roar and this with a large poor population.

    [​IMG]

    Better to spend the winter in Vancouver than Toronto.

    De Blasio kept the schools open far longer than he should have.
     
  18. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
    I suggested neither, of course.

    If you wish to quibble with pronouncements of the World Health Organization and their application of the word "epicenter", I'm certain that it will take your criticism with all the respect it deserves.

    Let us review Trump's documented statements:
    A sample of Trump's high-minded statesmanship that has his worshippers so smitten:

    “I just received a call from @VP Mike Pence, thanking Washington state for our efforts to combat the coronavirus,” Governor Inslee tweeted.
    “I told him our work would be more successful if the Trump administration stuck to the science and told the truth.”
    Sticking to the science and the truth would appear to be sound advice, an eminently meritorious recommendation, yet hypersensitive Trump resorted to his signature pissy gutter sniping:


    Screen Shot 2020-03-17 at 11.17.06 AM.png
    “I told Mike not to be complimentary of that governor
    because that governor is a snake!”

    I would suggest that such a display of lowlife animus is inappropriate, but that would cause some fanatics to become hysterical.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
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  19. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Don't know, one way or the other. I never much cared for Biden, but then I'm not a big fan of anyone stupid enough to think they can turn gays straight.
     
  20. TheAngryLiberal

    TheAngryLiberal Banned

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    Well! Vancouver BC has a Population Density of around 13,000 per sq mile, New York is 26,000 per sq mile, so it's still not even a close comparison There are other Large US Cities larger then Vancouver BC that aren't close to what New York is dealing with, but New York has an Incredibly dense population and is why the Outbreak there is so bad. It's also a Liberal Sanctuary City Hell Hole, so that doesn't Help.
     
  21. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Hey I hear you, I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing I'm simply saying I understand why it hasn't been done. If people "know why now and will support it" then why does it need to be enforced? Why aren't folks doing this by their own volition? As I've said before freedom is a double edged sword. We are one of the few nations right now to where the President of the United States was on TV earlier saying how he's ASKING the citizens to please adhere to the CDC recommendations of social distancing for a few more weeks longer than he originally stated. The key words here are "asking" and "recommendations" because in the United States trying to go any further than that will be met with resistance.

    Plus not everywhere is the same in the US which is why I believe leaving this up to the States is the best solution. I am 100% in favor of States locking themselves down right now if they feel that is the correct response. Some States have implemented border checkpoints, I support that. However, what makes sense in some places doesn't make sense everywhere. NYC probably needs a lockdown because there are millions of people living on top of one another that can spread this virus all over that city fairly quickly which is what we are seeing right now. However, NY is not Alaska or rural Idaho. Telling Alaskans they can't leave their homes doesn't serve the same benefit as telling Chicago residents they can't. Folks in many of these rural areas are pretty socially distant just by the nature of their lifestyles as it is. But a federal policy stating such a thing means it applies to everyone, the village of Tok Alaska and NYC alike. I'm not on board with that nor am I in favor of the federal government overriding the States.

    Governors know their States better than the Federal Government does and I trust them to make these decisions more so than the Federal Government for that reason. I do believe that some places in the US need to be locked down to help slow this virus, but if that particular Governor doesn't want to do that I'm not too comfortable with the Federal Government stepping in and overriding them. I'd support decisions by the Feds to threaten to withhold Federal support or something if they don't listen but it's an overreach of Federal power for them to MAKE them do it. I'm not too keen on giving the Federal Government that much authority, not even during a pandemic. But if Rhode Island wants to set up border checkpoints to keep New Yorkers out like they did then I 100% support that. I recently read that Hawaii basically banned travel to the islands for the time being and Alaska may soon be banning all commercial travel from the lower 48 and sort of isolating themselves up there. That's an exercise of their State Rights and them taking advantage of their already isolated locations in reference to the rest of America. I'm perfectly fine with that.

    I'm with you on the anti-vax folks though. I champion school districts that have stopped playing games with those people and I 100% support any school district who decides to boot your kids out of school because you think vaccines give you down syndrome or whatever. I support that at the local level and State levels. I would not support a Federal mandate stating that if your child is not vaccinated they cannot go to school or out in public though.

    And while you personally wouldn't vote for someone who fails to act in the way you see is necessary there are millions of other Americans who would refuse to vote for someone who does act in the manner you are advocating. Whether we like it or not those are things that these elected politicians have to think about.
     
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  22. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Trump is a petty jerk.
     
  23. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Seriously? Those are some of the biggest cities in America. New York City is the unofficial capital and a major international hub. It literally has nothing to do with what political party you associate those cities with. A VIRUS DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOUR POLITICS.

    Blaming the current epidemic in this country on Trump is stupidity. Blaming it on the Democrats, even subtly as you just did, is stupidity. Trump made the right decision to stop travel to China, but then he stopped doing anything for over a month. And during that time he made multiple comments that downplayed the concern over the virus to the point that when it did start ramping up here, a lot of folks thought it was just the media and the Democrats trying to ruin Trump's economy. Trump couldn't have stopped the virus even if he had wanted to meaning ultimately this isn't something you can give him the blame for. But after this thing runs it's course and the death toll is known, as well as the economic cost, all those tweets and comments where he tried to downplay everything and blame the concern on the media and the Democrats will be sitting there on the internet for all to see for all of human time. If he'd taken it seriously from the start, and been telling his followers that they should too, the numbers could potentially be lower right now.

    But they'll still be high no matter what. I can blame Trump for doing his usual shtick(and hope that he learned a lesson from it this time around), but I don't blame him for the virus being here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  24. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    But the area in the first picture is as dense as NYC and Vancouver has so far been able to suppress the virus.
    See above about Vancouver density in what they call the "West End." It was possible to suppress the coronavirus in NYC and they didn't. Hell, De Blasio kept the public schools open. What a moron!
    Then Southern cities have a lot of poor people. That doesn't help, either. (No, I'm not a fan off illegal immigration.)
     
  25. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Vancouver is an amazing city, but you really need to get a handle on the homeless thing. It's just ridiculous.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020

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