How many Jews died in the gas chambers?

add in "experimental medical procedures".

 

Great is the effort to diminish the Holocaust so that it may continue.

 

I'd like to hear your take on the info to which I linked in posts #19 and #51.

 

Please explain: how does an accurate rendition of a historical narrative diminish that event?

 

Pure hate of Jews. Through ages Jews were accused of many crimes, for example:
converting Christian children to matzah,
poisoning wells to spread disease, especially during the Black Death in the 14th century,
killing Jesus Christ,
as capitalists of oppressing workers and as communists destroying capitalism,
stealing and desecrating the consecrated Eucharist wafer
of conspiracy do rule the world
destroying religious values by spreading atheism
destroying religious values by spreading Jewish religion
and some more crimes I don't remember

I divide people who spread hate of Jews to two groups:
intelligent people who use Jews as scapegoats to hide their own failures
gullible, poorly educated who the first group convinced that Jews are 'bad' people.

How to find the second group is very easy, they are so convinced that the first group is right, that they even don't check it the links they post are still active.

They post totally irrelevant information, like in discussion of existence of gas chambers they post information about financial fraud related to holocaust, which has nothing to do with existence of gas chambers, but a lot with describing Jews as 'bad' people.

Another example of gullible, poorly educated person can be spot, were he just repeated information without checking it, for example:
"- Jewish scholar Arno Mayer, a professor of history at Princeton University, claims that more people died of disease than any other means. Who's right", but he is unaware that Arno Mayer in his book "Why Did the Heavens Not Darken" many times confirms the fact that Germans murdered Jews using gas:
Page 364

page 365


So what we can do? Nothing! Lets gullible, poorly educated people have the schadenfreude and let some people like me to enjoy answering.

 

Yep. Whenever this topic comes up the antisemites slither out of their cesspits to vomit forth the same lies they have vomited forth time & time again. Some even have the temerity to act offended when their obvious hatred of jews - proven by their obviosu obsession with this one, small group of people - is pointed out. I suppose if honesty & self awareness were important they wouldn't be holocaust deniers.

 

I'd like to hear your take on the info to which I linked in posts #19 and #51 too. Anyone who purports to know about this topic should be familiar with the research that the revisionists have done.

 

I am not interested in running down yet more of your rabbit holes Scott. In topic after topic you endlessly instruct people to watch or read material that ranges from poor to embarassing. I doubt you actually take the time to consume it all yourself, though if you have it would explain a GREAT deal.

I have read and seen enough well documented works on the holocaust, complete with eye witness testimony from participants, to have a good understanding of what happened during the holocaust. I have also talked to holocaust survivors. I actually understand how history is written & researched. The liars, fraudsters & anti-semites you quote on theis topic have nothing to offer on the subject.

For the record, I think you are one of the very rare exceptions when it comes to the holocaust. Unlike virtually all the....people....who weigh in on this topic I don't think you are motivated by hatred of Jews. I think you are just so obsessed with the idea that any 'alternative' theory, not matter how poorly based & badly motivated, is somehow 'the truth'. That makes you an easy mark for the Holocaust Denial Industry. I am afaid I am not qualifed to help you. I deal in historical fact, not conspiracy theories or psychology.

 

Any objective person would at least start wondering after looking at that research.
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...he-jews-part-2.610995/page-26#post-1074357398

 

Actually no.
OBJECTIVE people have looked at the evidence for over 50 years and the history is the history. Anything that is presented that tries to claim the holocaust was a hoax is, itself, a hoax.

Saying an objective person should at least "look at the research" is the same as saying that an objective person should look into the research of a perpetual motion machine.

 

The reason that our gossiping gaggle of gullible Holocaustians prefer slander and evasive whining about pseudo anti Semitism over honest and substantive discussion is because they have absolutely nothing to refute the fact there's nothing to support the homicidal steam, electrocution and gas chamber fable except for tall tales from known frauds like Moshe Peer(1) and Gena Turgel. (2)

I've been asking for just a simple photo or blueprint of just one of the hundreds of homicidal gas chambers required to kill "millions of people" for weeks now and all I've read in response are evasions, slander, distortions of what I've really written and outright lies.


Over and over I've asked: if "millions of people" were killed in this slow, dangerous, expensive and labor intensive manner then there would have to have been hundreds of homicidal gas chambers throughout Europe.
Where are they all?

Yes, there were "gas chambers" for delousing that deceptive Holocaustians try to pass of as homicidal gas chambers but the closest thing to a German made homicidal gas chamber was the one that German POWs were forced to build by the Soviets for propaganda purposes.

Naturally, the influential International Holocaust Industry threatened the author / eyewitness and the book was banned because it further showed that there were no German run homicidal gas chamber in any of work camp.


"NKVD Forced German POWs to Build Fake Gas Chambers AFTER the War !"
https://vk.com/@-181845420-nkvd-forced-german-pows-to-build-fake-gas-chambers-after-the

EXCERPT "As a young officer, Gerhart Schirmer was captured in 1945 by the Russians and held in Sachsenhausen which the Russians continued to use as a prison. Although the War and Nazism were over, Schirmer and a few fellow-prisoners were forced to construct a gas chamber and execution room, to show the world what the Nazis had done. He described his experiences in a booklet entitled 'Sachsenhausen - Workuta, Zehn Jahre in den Fängen der Sowjets' (Grabert Verlag, Tübingen, 1992).

When 'certain groups' drew the attention of the authorities to the booklet's contents, it was seized and banned in Germany. This is described by Schirmer below (my translation). I understand Schirmer was given the choice of a fine or prison and he chose the fine because, being over ninety, he did not relish spending his last few years behind bars, especially as he had already spent eleven years of his life in prison." CONTINUED

----------------------------------------------------------------------

It's precisely because no one gullible enough to believe in homicidal "vaporizers", homicidal gas, electrocution and steam chambers etc is able to produce even one blueprint or actual photo of a homicidal gas chamber that open debate and honest examination of the Holocaust is criminalized in about 13 "democracies".

There has never been a historical narrative so fictitious and fragile that it has or needs such draconian government censorship laws to survive.

Thanks,





(1). "Holocaust Revisionism and its political consequences"
http://boerebib.atspace.com/Argief/Graf/chapter 6.htm

EXCERPT "An even bigger miracle was reported in Canada in 1993:

"As an eleven year old boy held captive at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp during WW II, Moshe Peer was sent to the gas chamber at least six times. Each time he survived, watching with horror as many of the women and children gassed with him collapsed and died. To this day, Peer doesn't know how he managed to survive. 'Maybe children resist better, I don't know', he said in an interview last week." CONTINUED



(2). "Auschwitz survivor Gena Turgel walked out of a gas chamber alive"
https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/...ena-turgel-walked-out-of-a-gas-chamber-alive/

 

Thanks for jumping in.

What you wrote about being objective interested me as objectivity is critical in arriving at anything close to the truth especially when it comes to volatile topics
like the Holocaust, Middle Eastern conflicts etc.

Objectivity is defined as: " lack of favoritism toward one side or another : freedom from bias. Many people questioned the selection committee's objectivity.Nov 6, 2024"

So understanding the other side is critical to be able to be objective and, of course, you can't understand the other side without knowing something about it.

For example, because I'm older than I'd like to be and lived, worked and studied in Germany when many more Holocaust survivors, German WW 2 Veterans, Allied Veterans, Russian POWs, war widows etc were alive, alert and active. I lived, worked, ate and drank with these people for years and, briefly put, don't believe that any race, nationality, religion or ethnic group is any more benevolent or malevolent than another.

We frequently hear that the memory of the Holocaust must be spread far and wide because of "the lessons of the Holocaust" however one of the most distressing ironies about the "lessons of the Holocaust" is that just a cursory knowledge of the Gaza genocide shows how quickly history's former victims can become today's victimizers.

Re:

I don't think that anyone here has claimed that the Holocaust was a hoax, it's simple things like the fraudulent Holocaust Industry (1), (2) and blatant hoaxes like the "human skin" lampshades, "human fat" soap, shrunken heads, the homicidal "vaporizer" (3) that could instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews.

According to intercepted, secret, German radio transmissions, people were executed by shooting or hanging but there is not one mention of "mass gassing".
This is just one field of research that any objective person would consider noteworthy.

My point is that the Holocaust was tragic enough without the grisly embellishments intended to demonize the Germans and exploit for a financial and / or political gain .


Thanks,



(1). "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE"
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U

EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED


(2) "HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION"
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298

EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”CONTINUED


(3). "Auschwitz: Myths and Facts"
https://www.kultur.lu.se/media/utbi...r/SASH65/20171/Auschwitz__Myths_and_Facts.pdf

EXCERPT "At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief US prosecutor Robert Jackson charged that the Germans had used a "newly invented" device to instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no trace left of them." [8] No reputable historian now accepts either of these fanciful tales." CONTINUED

 

I have looked at the research Scott. Books, documents, personal accounts. LOTS of them. I have a whole shelf of well researched & documented books on the subject and I have read part or all of most of them. I am the guy who looks through the footnotes and is trained to understand what he is looking at. I have watched/listened to hours of witness testimony from victims and perpetrators. You can't say the same.

All you have is a bunch of people who want to deny one of the best documented events in history - generally for the most vile & disgusting reasons. You may not personally agree with those reasons, but by repeatedly choosing to promote those ideas you effectively align yourself with them. People will quite rightly judge you accordingly.

 

As per usual, none of your links disprove the Holocaust or challenge it in any way. You know this. You have been confronted about it many, many times.

 

Yep. Just an endless repeat cycle until people get sick of wasting their time, then he declares victory. Been doing it for years.

 

I noticed, when some people hate, they stop using logic and common sense.

For example: everyone knows that when there is money involved, there is a fraud.
If the fact that 17 people were charged in financial fraud involving the Holocaust is a proof that the Holocaust did not happen, then thousands of successful Holocaust financial claims is a proof that the Holocaust indeed happen.

And what is 3). "Auschwitz: Myths and Facts"?
https://www.kultur.lu.se/media/utbi...r/SASH65/20171/Auschwitz__Myths_and_Facts.pdf

It is a primitive attempt to hide that the information is created by the Institute for Historical Review. And what is the Institute for Historical Review?
According to AI Gemini:
The Institute for Historical Review (IHR) is a United States-based nonprofit organization which promotes Holocaust denial. It is considered by many scholars to be central to the international Holocaust denial movement.

The IHR was founded in 1978 by Willis Carto and David McCalden. It is headquartered in Fountain Valley, California. The IHR publishes a variety of materials, including books, pamphlets, and articles, that promote Holocaust denial. It also operates a website and a YouTube channel.

The IHR has been criticized by historians, Holocaust survivors, and human rights organizations for its promotion of Holocaust denial. The organization has been accused of antisemitism and of using pseudoscience to support its claims.

The IHR is a controversial organization, and its views are not accepted by the mainstream historical community. However, it continues to be active in promoting Holocaust denial.

 

You don't seem to be making a distinction between mainstream info and revisionist info. I think most of the viewers are looking at the revisionist info in posts #19 and #51. You're not going to impress people who've looked at it by ridiculing it without looking at it.

 

I'm not looking to impress anybody, least of all people who think your sources are credible.

 

You're being a bit vague. Have you looked at the info to which I linked in posts #19 and #51?

 

I am being very precise. Not my problem that you don't comprehend.

 

I don't know whether you've looked at that info or not. Just tell me. Have you looked at it? If you have, how much of it have you looked at?

 

If you are not perceptive enough to have worked that out then it is no wonder you are so easily suckered in by conspiracy theorists. Not hard to work out.

 

Please show me where you have refuted ANYTHING I have both written and supported.

You've posted nothing but the same fraudulent fodder from the multi billion dollar, international Holocaust Industry that's repeatedly been caught lying, cheating and stealing.

Why is it that no one who has been duped into believing about "vaporizers", "human skin" lampshades, homicidal steam, electrocution and gas chambers, shrunken heads etc can produce even one blueprint or photo.

If "millions of people" were killed in homicidal gas chambers there would have been hundreds of them scattered throughout Germany, Poland etc but not one exists or existed.
Where are they all?

 

I have done some many, many times, and all you do is repeat the random strawmen above. You are unwilling to actually talk about the gas chambers. You constantly shift to strawmen. You have yet to produce anything that isn't a complete non sequitur.

 

You can refute only if both parties are using logic and common sense – but people who hate they don’t use common sense or logic, and it is very easy to show – for example discussion between a normal person (NP) and a hater (HP):

NP – Wikipedia proves that Germans murdered people in gas chambers.
HP – ha, ha Wikipedia is controlled by Zionists

NP – Encyclopedia Britannica proves that Germans murdered people in gas chambers.
HP – ha, ha Encyclopedia Britannica is controlled by Zionists

NP – AI proves that Germans murdered people in gas chambers.
HP – ha, ha AI is controlled by Zionists

NP – Academia proves that Germans murdered people in gas chambers.
HP – ha, ha "Academia" mentality tortured people who didn't believe that the earth was the center of our solar system.

HP - 17 people were charged in financial fraud involving the Holocaust
NP – but hundreds of people successfully received compensation as Holocaust victims
HP – silence

HP - "- Jewish scholar Arno Mayer, a professor of history at Princeton University, claims that more people died of disease than any other means. Who's right"
NP – But this Jewish scholar Arno Mayer, a professor of history at Princeton University in his book "Why Did the Heavens Not Darken" many times confirms the fact that Germans murdered Jews using gas.
HP – silence

HP – It is impossible to gas 2 million people in gas chambers
NP - The largest gas chambers were rooms about 200 square meters (14x14 meters)., without problem you can squeeze at least 4 people in 1 square meter, which gives at least 800 people per session, and if you use force, you can squeeze even more.
According to various sources:
It took about 10-30 minutes to put alive people in gas chambers
It took about 5-20 minutes to murder them with Zyklon B
It took about 30-60 minutes to remove dead bodies.
So even if we take the least favorite data: 2 hours full cycle, only 800 people per session, 10 session a day (20 hours of work day) you can murder 8000 thousand people/day without any problem.
In a year – 365 x 800 = 2.92 millions - in only one gas chamber.
HP – silence

So if someone is controlled by hate - it is impossible to convince him of anything.