How to ban guns without firing a single shot...

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, May 25, 2022.

  1. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    True, but if they want to be rediculous, we have no choice but to play along.
     
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  2. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    Lets look at your proposals and I will educate you why they are designed to harass lawful gun owners

    1) banning any type of firearm only harasses those who currently can legally own them. Felons etc are already banned from owning any modern firearm. It also is a felony to posses and use a firearm for the purposes of committing a violent felony. Malum prohibitum bans, thus, only impact honest people.

    2) banning normal capacity magazines-see above

    3) waiting periods. Felons don't buy guns from retail dealers. They almost always get them from people who know they are felons. Waiting periods, thus only harass those who can buy guns legally

    4) registration. Registration is designed to facilitate confiscation in the future. Felons cannot be charged with failure to register firearms they possess. Registration is useless for solving crimes. anyone who actually has prosecuted a felony knows that. I cannot recall a case where the retail owner of a firearm left the weapon at the scene of a felony and was not present.

    5) universal background checks are worthless according to the Obama DOJ unless almost every gun currently in private hands is registered. That is the purpose of this law-to create a registration of privately owned firearms. And given criminals get guns from other criminals, they aren't going to comply

    I note you never addressed the fact that 99% of all anti gun money goes to Democrats. Pretty well proves my claim that gun control is a leftwing scheme
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2023
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  3. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I will support any law which retains my right to own and bear arms of my choice without imposing requirements which make it more difficult for me to own and bear arms. That law must extend to other people with the same requirement.

    I recognize the need to control who owns and bears arms and some reasonable limits on arms. I do not believe that "so called assault weapons" are any more threat than any other firearm. They are not military style weapons. They might look like military weapons, but they do not have the capability of military style weapons. Assault Rifle is a made up term designed to alarm people not familiar with guns.
     
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  4. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    have you noticed that almost all the posts of gun banners attack the NRA, conservatives, Trump supporters, etc and almost never criminals, the lame ass woke prosecutors and judges who won't crack down on crime-etc? EVERYTHING objectively harmful you can do with a firearm is already illegal or subject to serious civil liabilities.
     
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  5. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    True, they only facilitate whatever the cause is, which is to say, amplify, greatly amplify the damage whatever is causing it.

    Does anyone really know what the cause is? It's a deeply embedded, societal thing, who knows? They will be trying for a long time to figure
    out what the cause is, and when and if they ever do, which probably won't be any time soon, there will be no magic button to push to stop it.

    In the mean time, Turtledude, we can reduce the amplification/facilitation factor by keeping guns out of crazy people's hands. Now, some studies have been done that show that most of the mass shootings are not done by crazy people (though no doubt some are) they are premeditated and committed by individuals affected by a range of factors:

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...6/the-real-reason-mass-shootings-are-the-rise

    I further contend there are powerful, divisive, and negative social forces at work today that fuel the increase in mass public shootings. These factors include but are not limited to: financial and healthcare fears, a declining belief in the American dream, distrust of the government, racism, xenophobia, religious and gender biases, hate crime, domestic terrorism, and near-constant war since 2001. Political and social divisions fueled by seemingly ubiquitous hate speech across media platforms over the last few years have created an environment where violence is seemingly inevitable.

    I tend to agree that the answer isn't a simple one, and as such, there is no simple magic button to push to fix the problem. But one thing we can do is make guns harder to get, make background checks universal, and do the best we can. We have to do something, and all I keep hearing from republicans is 'do nothing'. but doing something runs in direct conflict with guns are a right. Well, I say we take away the right because our nation is becoming gun obsessed. Then doing something about it is possible. We have parents putting military style weapons in children's hands, and posing with the family. It's turning into a veritable cult fetish and it is sick. This is why I believe 2A must be repealed, because america is sick in the head, and when someone is sick in head, you put them in a padded room for their own good. Well, we really can't do that but we can repeal the second amendment and de-sanctify guns, which I think is necessary given the condition of the patient. This isn't an individual problem, this is a nation problem. The second amendment served us well when we were young and rugged individuals, but we've grown some and are becoming gun happy, America has gone mad with it's gun obsession.

    This goes back to my argument, that doing that is tough because of 2A, Repeal 2A and we can start saving the lives of children.

    You talk as if owning guns is some kind of sacred right. If there ever were a right that shouldn't be sacred, it shouldn't be the instrument of death for which more and more Americans are fetishing over.

    But no, Republicans want to ban books, but not guns. talk about insanity.

    I think the real problem are republicans. History kinda backs this up, .

    indictments2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2023
  6. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    so much disinformation. the GOP doesn't ban books -some GOP members might say that some books are inappropriate for our tax dollars to supply school children. That is no more a ban than YOU agreeing kids should not have Jack Daniels in the cafeteria or Glock handguns in their backpacks

    the bolded part is uber bullshit. UBGCs are worthless and you know it. and the only thing you can do is make it harder for LAW ABIDING people to buy guns-not criminals. your pipe dream of repealing the second amendment won't happen and if it were to-I am sure you'd be out demanding complete gun bans
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2023
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  7. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Take a deeper dive by first reading the title again - carefully. It may help. :)

    CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS, America’s ***Broken*** Criminal Legal System Contributes to Wealth Inequality, New CAP analysis highlights how the nation’s failed experiment with mass incarceration and overcriminalization strips wealth from families and widens the racial wealth gap., By Christian E. Weller, Akua Amaning, Rebecca Vallas, DEC 13, 2022.(*** mine)

    The Inconvenient Truth: The American criminal justice system is broken.
     
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  8. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, you're argument appears to be 'more guns means we're safer'.

    That's funny, according to the Small Arms Survey, the United States has the highest rate of civilian gun ownership in the world, with 120.5 civilian-owned firearms per 100 people. This is nearly double that of the second-place country, the Falkland Islands, which has an estimated 62 guns per 100 people.

    In addition, guns have become the leading cause of death among children in the United States. A recent study found that there was close to a 42% jump in firearm-caused deaths among children from 2018 to 2021. Another study found that firearms accounted for nearly half of the increase in mortality among children and teens in 2020.

    Given the number of guns that exist per capita in America, according to your logic, we should be the safest nation on earth, yet the statistics don't bear that out.

    According to the Small Arms Survey, Taiwan and Indonesia have the lowest gun ownership rates in the world, with zero civilian firearms per 100 people.

    When it comes to violent gun crime, the rate of gun deaths per country varies widely and is heavily influenced by the rate of civilian gun ownership per country and by each nation’s gun control laws. For instance, Singapore, which has strict gun control laws, has a gun death rate of roughly 1 in a million

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-violence-by-country

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/g...ng-cause-of-death-for-us-children/ar-AA1fyzT0

    I'm just not seeing a compelling argument coming from the second amendment types, like yourself.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2023
  9. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    explain how we can add 100 million guns to our supply over the last 30 years-many of which are the ones that cause garment soiling by the left-semi auto "assault weapons" and "large capacity handguns" and yet the rate of gun violence has GONE DOWN? Comparing the USA with essentially fascist states like singapore is a joke. Most of the children murdered in the USA are upper end teenagers involved in-or closely associated with narcotics gangs.
     
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  10. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    I just revealed what Republicans are all about, and you do not have a counter argument.

    They want to ban books, ban abortion, make the rich richer, explode the debt, and you can add destroy democracy on that list, with the backing of Trump

    It appears that the greatest threat to US National Security, the overall health and well being of America and the planet (Climate change is a hoax, Trump says) are Republicans.

    Republicans are, therefore, the problem.

    Solution: Vote for democrats.

    Simple.
     
  11. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From What I have seen recently, the criminal activity by administration has more to do with the democrats repeatedly indicting any republican within sight than criminal activity by the republicans.

    Also, if you look carefully at the graph, it would appear that only about one out of ten of the republican indictments actually ends up with prison sentences. When the democrats were indicted, a higher percent of them ended up in prison. Also, when you add up prison sentences. the democrats ended up with about as many as the republicans. All in all, a very misleading graph.
     
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  12. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Posting a bunch of your opinions and pretending like it's a valid argument does not magically make it a valid argument.

    You know how you can tell when someone's losing the argument? There are two main ways. One of which you have already engaged in multiple times with multiple people in this thread.... is petty insults

    Then there is attempting to change the topic which you have done above.
     
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  13. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    translation-if we don't support socialism, we want to harm America
    thanks again for proving my points as to what motivates gun banners
     
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  14. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    It about the government exercising more control.

    Stop saying it's about "saving lives" because we all know that ain't true.
     
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  15. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    All laws that disarm human beings and render them vulnerable to attack violate the fundamental human right of self defense.

    “The article challenges the fashionable but finally unsupportable opinion in political and academic circles that there exists no compelling, unitary, universally resonant moral and legal justification of human rights. The argument is intimated by two overlooked passages in the preamble to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that presuppose the right of self-defense against arbitrary force, understood as both a moral and legal concept, and as relevant both to personal and collective life. It shows how the logic of defensive force underlies the three formative human rights instruments: the UDHR, and the two covenants on political, legal, economic, social, and cultural rights. The underlying claim is that good reasons of a particular kind are required to justify any use of force, a claim that makes perfect sense against the backdrop of the atrocities committed by the German fascists and their allies in the mid-twentieth century. The article also refers to compelling, if preliminary, evidence of the widespread cross-cultural acceptance of the moral and legal right of self-defense, suggesting a basis for the worldwide comprehensibility and appeal of human-rights language.
    CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY PRESS,, THE RIGHT OF SELF-DEFENSE AND THE ORGANIC UNITY OF HUMAN RIGHTS, By, David Little, 9 December 2021. (Emphasis mine)
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...human-rights/C345D24210F1F792792D7AC5B968DDC8
     
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  16. Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle Banned

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    The problem, of course, is the total incompetence of those administering the no-fly list...a list that includes infants, active-duty general officers, and at least one sitting Senator!

    Plenty of people NOW will not even consider seeking counseling of any sort because of the risk.

    That is...breathtakingly wrong.

    Red flag laws have, exactly, one purpose: to legalize SWATing gun owners.
     
  17. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    You'll never keep guns out of the hands of criminals because you don't even want to take criminals off the street.

    Explain how you expect to stop gun crime again?...lol
     
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  18. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    red flag laws need to have strict due process safeguards and absolutely brutal consequences for those who falsely report
     
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  19. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    No I am saying sticking murderers in jail and keeping them there would help far more than taking guns away from honest citizens.
     
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  20. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    when you see lefties never support actually getting tough on criminals but they want to jail people who have guns stolen from them, you know crime control is a facade. Example-the GOP and the NRA pushed federal prosecution (longer jail time than state convictions) of felons caught with guns. the Dems, the NAACP and the ACLU objected because many of the mopes caught with guns were black. which is expected in densely populated urban environments which are a target rich areas for such prosecutions
     
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  21. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    No, we don't all know that that is true, stop speaking for others, speak only for yourself.
     
  22. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If it was only about saving lives, there are many much more productive areas to save lives.
     
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  23. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    cases in point. In 1986, Democrats-upset by a pro gun bill that had enough votes to be signed into law by RWR-attached a poison pill to the bill with some late night machinations by acting SOTH Rangel. It banned (the language was nuanced so it didn't appear to be an obvious ban) the sale to private citizens of machine guns (even with the background check, year long wait and 200 dollar tax stamp)made after My 19,1986 despite the fact that the 50 years prior to this bill had only perhaps TWO cases of lawful machine guns in private hands being used for violent crimes.

    2) the clinton gun ban targeted firearms used in less than 2% of violent crimes and not handguns.

    both of those prove saving lives was a facade
     
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  24. Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle Banned

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    And I recall one of those was a cop.
     
  25. Green Man

    Green Man Banned

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    Are you sure? I'm in the USA and my side by side shotgun was manufactured in Brazil.

    My 1911 clone was also manufactured in Brazil, by a separate manufactuer.

    You really need to modify your signature.
     
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