I never knew you: depart from me

Howdy,

Just a simple question here. If we take into consideration these words.

Does that mean those people cannot be judged by Jesus on Judgement day?
I mean, if you don't know somebody, don't know what they've done, how can you judge them, right?

 

Pretty sure you are overthinking it.

Sounds like exactly what he meant when he said that whosoever denies me on Earth I shall deny in front of the father

 

That would be billions of souls - Buddhist, Muslims, Hindus, all sorts of small cuts and beliefs, etc.
So does that mean that not Jesus but the Father will judge them?

 

I don't know but I'm dying to find out.

 

Oh, you will, certainly. The dying I mean.

 

Holy interpretation fail Robin" -- back to the bat-mobile

No - FB - that is not what he means at all in Matt 25 - Goat and Sheep parable .. the one where Jesus is Judging .. .. and judging NOT on the basis of "Faith" .. not on the basis of Belief in Jesus .. or knowing Jesus .. plainly stating that the ones who had Faith but no Works .. go to Hell .. the ones with Works but no Faith .. go to heaven ..

 

I think it means their having done things in his name without his authority or permission. To have done so means he never knew you. You just took it upon yourself to do it. It probably refers to those who think the bible gives them authority to act in Gods name, as if there were no real God to authorize them. It is a form of fraud. But with God, it is fraud in divine matters which men ought not to do. And by referring to them as workers of iniquity, which is very bad if the Savior refers to you that way, I think it is because they never knew God or he them. They just read the bible, determined for themselves its meaning, and then elected themselves to Gods service as if to dispossess God of his own free agency to choose his own servants. Thus they bully God in their hearts and lead others in ignorance according to their own personal interpretation of holy scriptures.

There is a similar reference to "I never knew you" in the parable of the ten virgins.

 

That sounds like you couldn't have got it more backward if that was your intention

 

IKR ?
And I can't wait to get there someday and have all of these questions answered.

The worst case scenario is that we just die and become absolutely nothingness.... In which case it will not matter what my belief your belief or anyone else's beliefs are at that point.

You stand to lose nothing but stand to gain everything

 

Explain yourself .. running around crying "Backwards Backwards" does not tell us anything.

 

I already told you my explanation while you are attempting to pervert the scriptures and turn them completely backwards

 

No, it means Jesus was angry that people thought they could judge or prophesize in His name. They cannot.

 

What scripture is being turned backwards .. and how ? running around crying "perverter of scriptures" without telling us which scripture is being perverted and how .. tells us nothing.

 

Some context is missing. It seems Jesus is talking about false prophets, who may do good things but for bad reasons.

15 `But, take heed of the false prophets, who come unto you in sheep's clothing, and inwardly are ravening wolves.

16 From their fruits ye shall know them; do [men] gather from thorns grapes? or from thistles figs?

17 so every good tree doth yield good fruits, but the bad tree doth yield evil fruits.

18 A good tree is not able to yield evil fruits, nor a bad tree to yield good fruits.

19 Every tree not yielding good fruit is cut down and is cast to fire:

20 therefore from their fruits ye shall know them.

21 `Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into the reign of the heavens; but he who is doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in thy name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name done many mighty things?

23 and then I will acknowledge to them, that -- I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.

24 `Therefore, every one who doth hear of me these words, and doth do them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house upon the rock;

25 and the rain did descend, and the streams came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell not, for it had been founded on the rock.

26 `And every one who is hearing of me these words, and is not doing them, shall be likened to a foolish man who built his house upon the sand;

27 and the rain did descend, and the streams came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and its fall was great.'

 

It means there are those who profess to follow Jesus, but actually do not follow him, as demonstrated by their actions (especially evil actions).

Your question is actually not specific enough and too ambiguous to be able to give a simple answer.

For one thing, arguably it is not entirely clear in scripture who does the judging of sinners (not destined to heaven), whether it is God or Jesus.
For another thing, this statement does not necessarily mean Jesus would not be judging. "Depart from me" could be immediately after the judgement (since those who are judged positively get to stay with Jesus, while those destined for the judgement of punishment get dragged off and away from Jesus's presence).

You could certainly try to use this verse as part of a wider argument about the theology of judgement, but it does not really indicate things one way or the other on its own.

The word "knowing" (in this context) implies knowing someone like a close acquaintance, friend, or family member. (That you have a close relationship with them)

("Knowing a woman" could also be a figure of speech for a man who was having an intimate sexual relationship with a woman, if that helps shed any light on the type of meaning)

It's not the same word for knowing a fact or only knowing about a person.

 

It's pretty obvious I don't know why you're making me be redundant.... You stated that Jesus said that you can get into heaven with works without faith.

That is absolutely false and it is certainly a perversion of the truth

 

God will judge not for what a person has done, but for what a person has not done:

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
(Matthew 25:41-46)

 

Sorry .. that is not what I said .. let us not let our fantasies compete with reality .. what is "absolutely false" is your understanding.

Jesus says that works are required .. now .. let us be clear that you do not have the faintest idea what works entails .. which is part of the reason for your "absolutely false" assertions .. I did not say that "Faith" was not required .. although Jesus pretty much does but that is a different story.

What I said that Jesus and Brother James said .. is that "Faith Alone" is Dead .. worthless .. will do you no good .. and that it is the foolish who believe in salvation without works on the basis of Faith alone.

Now .. what is further ridiculous nonsense is your claim "Perversion of the Trinity" .. Sola Fide has nothing to do with the Trinity .. you are way out of your depth and off the page .. The Majority of Christianity does not believe in Sola Fide .. there is both a works and a faith component to salvation for Catholic and Orthodox .. just saying .. both are Trinity believers .. and so the only perversion of the Trinity here is coming from you.

 

I'm sure if you tell yourself that enough you can actually believe what you're saying and you can actually believe what I do or do not know.

I come here sometimes just to have other people tell me what I believe and think....

 

Sorry mate but the fact that the majority of Christianity does not accept Martin Luther's "Faith Alone" dogma has nothing to do with my belief .. and nothing to do with the Trinity. This is true regardless of what you or I think or believe.

Jesus uses the term "foolish" to describe those who believe in salvation by "Faith Alone" .. as does Brother James .. paralleling the teachings of Jesus. Perhaps this is why the majority of Christianity rejects this Dogma.

 

It would really be more appropriate for you two to have this discussion in a separate thread.

But I can very quickly give you this: Faith and works normally go together. It's mostly a false dichotomy to think it's either one or the other. There are certain rare situations where faith seemingly "without works" could save somebody, but that is only because it presumes the person has genuinely repented and that their actions would correspond to this faith, if given the opportunity. Intent is very important though.

 

You should probably read John 3:16

 

Right Kazu - you are going to lecture me what is what .. OK but, just curious if the 100% strike out record on contested issue factored into the equation at all ?

har har .. just funnin .. and it was not claimed that it was one or the other .. that insinuation a strawman fallacy from another mother .. The claim is that "Faith Alone" is not the Path .. according to Jesus in the context of "I never knew you - depart from me" -- it is the " Jesus Jesus .. Just believe in Jesus" crowd that Jesus is referring to .. in his summary sermon on the mount comments. "Not all who cry Lord Lord will make it through the pearly gates .. but ONLY the one who does the will of the Father who art in Heaven"

Thus .. "works" are part of the salvation equation. He that does the word has strong foundation .. the Hearers of the word have no foundation sayeth the lord .. and Jesus uses the term Foolish .. to describe the Faith Alone-Sola Fide crowd ... in the last paragraph of his most famous sermon ... some interesting prophecy in that for sure

 

Who does not know that quote by heart .. what does that silly and oft confused passage have to do with the fact that the Majority of Christianity does not believe in "Sola Fide" -- Salvation on the basis of Faith Alone. You should probably read the passage James 2:20 .. where James - Brother of Jesus and leader of the Jerusalem Church after his death - says the Faith Alone crowd are Foolish .. using that exact word "You foolish people" as does Jesus use the same word to describe the same people Matt 7: 26

John 3:16 has no bearing on the meaning of the Sermon on the Mount to the people listening to the Sermon on the Mount

 

You have things a bit backward .. and Judgement is both for deeds done .. putting boot on neck of the poor .. and for neglect of the poor.. but regardless .. the point is that it is ones "Works" that are judged .. which includes lack of doing bad things ... according the the Universal Law .. "The Royal Law" .. So it is Written ... So it shall be done !!

James 2 - 8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, ..... you are doing right. 12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom. ....... 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

So .. you want this summed up ... If you do a little good .. you can do a little bad .. and remember the Golden Rule .. the Royal Law .. and that is all you need to know .... "Don't do to others what you hate - - The rest is all commentary" said the Great Rabbi Hillel .. 100BC - 10AD .. Teacher of Jesus who sat on his knee.