If YOUR religion lead the world (by far) in terrorism, would you work to improve it?

I have a friend who was a part of a Muslim reform organization, they would travel the world and hold organized events where they would encourage Muslims to reach out to non-Muslims. There was also an effort to reform some of their traditions to fit with modern times. Last time I spoke to that friend he had left the faith altogether, said he was done with the emotional limbo. The thing about Islam is it is a religion that was formed in the medieval times, and its age shows in its scripture. Generally Muslims are reluctant for reform because they see the Quran as the word of god. Not just a disciple's account, or a translation, but the direct word of god (not that Muhammad is seen as a god) . If I were my friend I probably would have done the same thing as him, try to reform the faith, and then leave it altogether

In regards to terrorism, it is generally seen by Muslims as an enemy to Islam more than a part of Islam, as these terrorist operatives are killing more Muslims than anyone else. So the message that Muslims need to reform their religion to be anti-terrorism is one that doesn't always transition well with Muslims. They already do not see themselves as being a part of these terrorist groups, so they do not feel the need to reform themselves against said groups

but religion is a part of the of those organizations you named. The two groups you named have religious motives, the KKK were a protestant anti-catholic group, and the IRA were a catholic anti-protestant group. They certainly don't represent everyone who is a part of their religions, but they are members of the mentioned religions. Personally, I would not hold all protestants responsible for the actions of the KKK, nor would I demand that they reform their religions over the actions of a group that they are already not a part of. However, if a protestant individual were to start an anti-KKK movement among their fellow protestants, I would certainly applaud their efforts.

I knew a Muslim individual who did just that within his faith, and I applaud him for his efforts.

As do Muslims

 

First off even the most moderate sharia law treats women worse than dogs. Second, whatever punishment Leviticus dishes out its done by a fair trail similar to what we have today. Third, unlike the Bible which seems to get lighter towards the most recent books, the Quran gets harsher and Muslims treat the later books as more relevant.

Shame isn't it?

Quote one.

 

Good post.

I'd point out that Biblical scripture including both the old and new testaments are older than the Qur'an. And, the Bible is considered as coming from God and its truth protected by God across these many translations.

It is amazing that one can read the Qur'an in its original form. I've learned a little Arabic through a few years of work with a teacher, and even I can read the words as they were stated by Mohammad. I'm certainly NOT a Muslim, but it is pretty incredible for a religion of nearly 2 billion people to read a text of such age - simply by learning a language that is in use today throughout a significant region of the world.

The idea of asking Islam to CHANGE that text hits me as profoundly absurd.

 

The Old Testament remains a violent murderous book declared by millions of Christians as the word of god

 

Christians have the new testament.

Matthew 5:
38"You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' 39"But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.…

Ephesians 2
15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.

Hebrews 8
13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Romans 10
4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.(*)

Romans 7
6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

2 Corinthians 3
13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.

Galatians 3 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

 

Christians believe the bible is the word of god. Problem with Islam is the content of the scripture. Christians used the TEXT of the bible to reform Christianity, to return Christianity to the doctrine of the bible, to do away with the inventions of the Catholic church. Much like the Islamic fundamentalist today are using the text of the koran and hadiths to return Islam to the doctrine of the original texts.

 

The laws of nations come from political mechanisms.

There are vast differences between Morocco and Saudi Arabia, for example.

I was in Morocco for a month a year ago with my wife and two other women. We stayed in the ancient inner ciries where there are no western style accommodations. We had a great time. The wonen there were wearing a varity of dress in public. I saw no restrictions, although men and women tended to drsss more conservatively than we do in the US.

 

Muslims and Christians have been the worst in this area throughout history, personally I would just stop believing they were religions of peace

 

theists religious people have killed far more people than all of the atheist religions in the world combined.

 

If my religion led the world in terrorism it would no longer be my religion.

 

Wrong! Add up Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and you have well over 100 million dead in the mid-20th century alone. How many people were killed in the Crusades? Well less than 1% of that.

 

The old and new testament also show their age, particularly the old.. I think one of the things that makes the old testament so much more extreme than the new is the fact that the old testament is tied to a governing body, that is the nation of the ancient Israelites (Judea), where as Christianity at its foundation did not have its own nation or its own law. The Quran is somewhere in the middle of the old and new testament, it's scriptures are not as extreme or as violent as the old testament, but it is also much more violent in comparison to the new testament. The disciples (the original Christians) did not fight in holy wars because they had no nation/government power to declare war. There were no Christian holy wars until there were Christian nations/governments

For the most part, the west has abandoned its theocracies, thus the idea of a Christian holy war is more of an outdated concept. There was something of an exception with the conflict involving the UK and the IRA, which was directly tied to the fact that the British government's official state church is protestant. Middle eastern countries today are far more theocratic in comparison to western countries, thus the idea of a holy war in Islam is not so much of an outdated concept. When you take the theocracy and territorial conflicts out of the equation, Islam is not much different from Christianity, but that is not the reality we live in today.

The scripture of Islam doesn't necessarily have to change, but middle eastern countries need to open up more to the idea of a separation of church and state. Muslims already living in the US understand the value of separation of church and state, but to many in the middle east the idea of separating their religion from their government is still considered a blasphemous idea.

 

Cant imagine where you would get the impression That the old testament is more violent than the Quran. As well, while the old testament has many stories of violence in the past, it doesn't have the violent commandments for the future anywhere near the level of the Koran. And while the Quran and hadiths dictates both the form of government and law to be applied, the bible does not.

 

The old testament promotes violence and killing in the name of god

 

That's because you haven't analyzed the two books

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...han-quran-text-analysis-reveals-a6863381.html

 

Hitler was a Christian.. born and raised

Theists means ALL God beliefs... not just Christians and Muslims

and of course if you believe the bible, God killed every living thing on the planet but a boat load, so add that in....

.

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http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Chronicles+15:13&version=KJV

2 Chronicles 15:13

King James Version (KJV)

13That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

and of course all the stoning for little things like picking up sticks on the weekend, ect....

 

Christians have the new testament

Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”
6 They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.
9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”
11 “No, Lord,” she said.
And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

"For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ...Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way."

 

Millions and millions of christians all over the world have the old testament too and believe it to be the word of god

 

But it is an historical document, not a normative one. The New Testament supersedes it.

 

Hitler was as Christian as my dog.

 

Not according to millions and millions of christians all over the world who view the old testament as the word of god.

 

Show me any sect of Christians who don't eat shellfish or wear clothes of blended fabrics. Let alone stone people to death

 

Yes they "have" the new testament. We still "have" the prohibition of alcohol in our constitution, it just isn't applicable any more.

Couldn't be stated much more clearly

Ephesians 2

15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.

Hebrews 8

13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Romans 10

4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Romans 7

6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

2 Corinthians 3

13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.Galatians 3

13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ[h] that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

 

Christians have the same God as Jews and Muslims....

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dog spelled backwards is God and we know all dogs go to heaven

seriously though, Hitler was a Christian, just a bad one

kinda like the 911 Terrorists were Muslims, just bad ones

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