Imagine a time and place of peace: Pax Americana

Discussion in 'Political Science' started by yangforward, Oct 25, 2023.

  1. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Maybe JFK would have got us there with his dreams of Camelot, it was
    a time of Disney and of hope.

    The dollar was used pretty much all over the world,

    Perhaps it could have been like Pax Romana,

    a lot of people loved America, because of the movies
    and Disneyland, I recall the supreme leader of N Korea
    really wanted to visit Disneyland.

    The opportunities for peace and friendship were there in abundance
     
  2. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    113
    One useful thinking aid is to assume we got to where we want to be
    and then think back to how we got there.

    Or to how we didn't get there.
     
  3. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We didn't get there by threatening and invading countries
     
  4. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    7,982
    Likes Received:
    3,927
    Trophy Points:
    113
    JFK didn't dream of Camelot. Jackie O' created that mythology after he was dead.
     
  5. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There may have been some resonance between what Jackie said and what the JFK administration and the era was actually like.

    JFK changed the developing arms race between the US and USSR, morphing it into a space race - a big improvement -
    especially if you care about the progress of the human race.

    A total 180 from the nihilist actions of president JB.
     
  6. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    7,982
    Likes Received:
    3,927
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The space race was a proxy contest to bring new ICBM's into development in the name of something other than next-gen nukes.
     
  7. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A lot of technology can be used in war, but better to focus on a friendly rivalry than on killing each other as has often been the case.
     
  8. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    7,982
    Likes Received:
    3,927
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I wouldn't call the cold war a friendly rivalry, but to each their own.
     
  9. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But not as bad as it could have been, or as bad as the situations Biden has got us into.
     
  10. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm trying in this thread to look at where we want to go, and to imagine, since that's the start
    of a improving our lives, at what we really want.

    We've had a lot of good things in the past, that have worked out well. And that
    might provide some ideas for what we want to preserve or do more of
    in the future.
     
  11. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    113
  12. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    113
    When I opened this thread it was mostly to help myself find a ray of hope amid the gloom.

    Now that ray has become a burst of sunshine,

    WW3 has been averted - Joe Biden didn't get the war on two fronts he wanted.

    The war in Ukraine was problematic but although Russia would not tolerate NATO
    weapons in Ukraine just 5 minutes by flight from Moscow, Russia would not produce
    WW3 to avoid WW3.

    The situation in the Middle East is far more complex and dangerous, but it looks
    like saner minds than ours are prevailing.
     
  13. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    35,578
    Likes Received:
    11,648
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All was not totally wonderful. The Cold War was going on between the United States (and Western European allies) and the Soviet Union (and Communist bloc). It was a short interval between the Korean War and Vietnam War, which were sort of both part of the larger ongoing "Cold War" conflict. The U.S. has launched a halfhearted intervention into Cuba the first year of JFK's presidency. (Which was probably related to JFK's assassination a few years later)
    Don't forget the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962. Things could have gone bad. There were tensions.

    But in terms of the U.S. economy and standard of living, the U.S. was probably at its height of prosperity at this time. For the first time, poverty seemed like it was becoming a thing of the past. Abundant good-paying jobs for American workers, and much of the rest of the world (even people in Soviet bloc countries) wanted to be like the U.S. or move to the U.S.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2023
  14. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Cuban Missile Crisis was an example of the silver rule: do not do to others what you would not want done to you.

    In 1961 the US placed nuclear armed missiles in Turkey within range of Moscow.

    The following year the USSR placed nuclear armed missiles in Cuba, to help the US
    understand what it felt like.
     
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    153,151
    Likes Received:
    64,691
    Trophy Points:
    113
    trump got us here, 4 year of trump was like a bull in a china shop, and some want to let him back in
     
  16. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And now we are back at it again, placing NATO weapons right next to Russia,
    and the Biden supporters are blind to seeing that Russia might find that
    threatening.
     
  17. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The route to peace isn't always an easy one.
    We bombed Vietnam for years and then finally
    it became peaceful after we stopped.
     
  18. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Here's some video and music from 1963, full of hope

     
  19. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's no coincidence that this happy era was in the early 1960s,
    before JFK was assassinated,
    because after that things went progressively wrong.

    JFK had planned to pull the advisors out of Vietnam as
    soon as the election was over
    because he couldn't risk being called 'weak' or a 'communist'
    before an election.

    Instead the US changed from wanting to help the world
    to bombing it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2023
  20. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Most people didn't notice the transition:

    As they said in Vietnam: "to save the village we had to destroy it''.

    Or more recently, in mid 2021 when we sent over to the capital
    of Ukraine, huge 155mm fragmentation shells in large quantities,
    and some more howitzers, these supplemented the paltry amount
    they had already which they were firing at Donetsk and other 'breakaway'
    civilian areas.

    There were no Russian forces to shell at the time.

    This additional artillery reached the front and was put into action around
    Feb 16 2022 and led to Russia moving forces in, having told everyone this
    was going to happen, on Feb 24th.

    The US public was kept from knowing what was going on by referring to the
    munitions as 'aid' or 'help'.

    Just as the money we spend to attack other countries we call 'defense'.
     

Share This Page