According to the bible, God controls everything. He controls life, death, and nature. It says he is all knowing and all powerful. So, if god is all knowing, he created Satan, knowing full well every single thing that would happen because of Lucifer's evil. He knowingly created evil, and did not even bother to warn Adam that there was a evil snake in the garden and that wanted to make him and Eve eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge. God is either really really forgetful or a complete (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*). Another example of God's evil side (And the reason I'm not Catholic) is the fact that he supoosedly punishes unbabtised children who die by sending them to Purgitory, the first level of Hell. According to the bible, god alone controls death. So if god kills an unbabtised baby and then send it to purgitory for HIS decision to kill it, that is just another way god is evil.
Look up "the problem of evil" on wikipedia. Relevant to your argument here, very interesting. God is love ya know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola
The argument from evil is a powerful argument. In my view it refutes the idea of a personal God. However, It does not refute a deistic God or an indifferent God or any kind of God who is detached from daily events.
The problem is the definition of evil. Is evil a human-centered concept based on what is detrimental to human welfare... or is it more like the D & D definition where it's a force that is the opposite of the other force called good. If it's the former, then God is both good and evil (like most humans), probably good by intentions but imperfect (which has some strange ramifications for God). If it's the latter, then God is good no matter what He does. If He does something detrimental to humans, it is good. People who try to stop him are evil. Humans have used both definitions throughout history for their own behavior. And as with other ambiguous words (love, for example) it all gets muddled and people use it in contradicting ways without batting an eye. I don't see why God, something that either created us inHis image or was created in our image, should be any different.
Evil is a meaningless word that changes with the point of view of each person. I'll give a great example.... In america, we call men like Osama Bin Laden evil.....because they kill innocent people. But in the point of view of the "terrorists" america is a nation of sin. We care more about money than anything else and we are one of the most waistful societies in the history of mankind, and we try top force our way of life on everyone else. To them, we are the evils ones. So you see> it changes with the point of view of each and ever person.
Then how do you explain evil? God is supposed to be all knowing, but he created Lucifer, who he should have known would be evil.
Lucifer, the Morning Star, Satan, the Devil.....whatever you want to call him. He was an angel created by god that turned out to be evil. If god is good, and all knowing, how did he create evil? It had to either have been purposely, meaning he meant to do it, meaning he is not really good, or somehow he is not all knowing and did not see it coming.
It never ceases to astound me that, with all the advances in science that have rationalized so many of the Bible's "miracles", that people would continue to cling to an archaic ideology that in essence, places shackles on them. The fabled God of Abraham is nothing more than a fantasy figure-head made BY MAN to provide a focal point for MAN'S desire to direct and control other MEN! It is an insanity that rivals the Tea Party. And like the Tea Party...ITS OVER! The great lie that the Bible speaks of. That Satan will pose as God. Guess what kids...does anyone REALLY believe that a "God Of Love and Truth" would require us to prostate ourselves to him and give up our free will to him? Would such a God require us to drink symbolic blood? Or eat the symbolic body of his fabled son? Or worship an idol that amounts to a dead guy tacked to a crucifix and then skewered in the ribs? THAT is certainly NOT the sort of God I would wanna get up close and friendly with... As for God being "good" or "evil"...both are subjective and have no firm meaning. Both depend on a persons personal vantage point or perception. Religious fanatics have all been lead by the nose, by a control mechanism created BY MAN! While that which you hail as "God"...laughs his ass off at you all...
As far as I know Lucifer means "lightbringer" - and this expression is indeed a symbol of the morning star - a symbol for the godess venus - for love. We are saying for example "god is love". There seems to be indeed a very bad confusion existing about the word "Lucifer". Maybe some people don't understand the positive messages of this words any longer. In this case I would say "The evil is an illusion". In case of the word devil I'm asking myselve why we Christians are saying Jesus Christ visited hell when he died and before he came back after three days. So I hope we are never alone - not even in hell. Remembering this situation of him and some experiences of my own life I would say "God loves you always - even in hell. You are not alone." And in case of the Satan - created as an angel - the situation is a little different. I fear Satan loves god and he hates us because he thinks god loves us much more than him. Maybe I spoke with this entity once - I'm not sure about - but it was for me like a kind of formless evil what produced an unbelievable fear in me. The Lords prayer helped me a lot in this situation - and since this days I'm sure the only "weapon" against the evil is love. And here we are again now: Lucifer - the lightbringer - morning star - venus - symbol of love. ... Strange, isn't it? ... Very strange ... I guess in paradise we would not feel this strangeness. And I guess this was also not the answer you liked to hear. I think you would prefer an answer what could show to you that your thoughts and ideas are a g(o)od - so you would be able to have any influence you like to have with your rational mind only on every reality - but I "fear" - better to say "I hope" - that love is the only key in case of all the questions of evil. Perhaps we have first to find new forms of logics and thoughts and views or senses if we like to understand all the probems of evilness. http://youtu.be/-TzdtyMC7ek
Lucifer was the name given to him by god as an angel. He was viewed as the brightest and best of all angels and was considered god's favorite.
what if the light-bringer (term of lucifer) lived in gehenna (valley of the sun)? and was born 6/66 and could enable each with understanding how carbon-12 (chemical element of 6-6-6 as the base of life)? lots of metaphors within the abrahamic theology. heck what if god was 'the garden' itself? What if prophecy was possible and entanglement was a fact of 'the garden' (nature)? Have you ever experienced deja vu? IS god good or evil? That is a perspective call. Irene is in playing with florida, is god 'good or evil'............. to a storm chaser, he/she has something to report (the best thing that could happen for him/her job, "thank god")... but to the residence of cuba haiti etc.. ("why has god forsaken me?") the sharks will be eating good............ while another dies. ie..... the end times will destroy the cities and many, but the children left will have the new beginning, and the 'last word' to rebuild the foundations of understanding, forever. keep on eye on that 'morning star' ps.... good morning!
I think what really bothers me about Lucifer is that his beef with God and humanity is supposed to be angels' lack of free will. Either that means God is the Wizard of Oz and really angels had free will all along and didn't know it... or that God MADE Lucifer rebel against him. You can still come up with greater good in that... Maybe we needed evil to truly have good or something like that. But then why does Lucifer deserve an eternity in Hell for doing what God made him do? The same story is revisited with Judas. Judas did what God needed him to do and what was necessary for Jesus to fulfill the prophecy... and yet he's considered evil and to be burning in Hell with Lucifer. And yet he did God's work! I think what we learn from this is that God, whether good or evil, is nobody you want to work for.
Do you know what it means for god to become a human being and to die? I don't think he liked this situation - but he did it for us in his son. I don't think there was any other way for us to show to us how important we are for him, so he was not even shy to share torture and death with us. He died because he loves us. But more important: He lives because he loves us.
That's it. More is not written about "lucifer" in the vulgata (latin bible) http://youtu.be/Fb2A5H6gUMY
So I take it you are one of those who believes strictly that what is in the book (a certain copy of it) is the limit of what is true in Christianity? That's fine. But religions do contain more than what is in their written scriptures, things both preceding and coming after the actual writing (the writing comes after centuries or millenia of orally passing the stories along-- even the books of the NT come a couple centuries after the life of Christ, passed along orally until then). So this has nothing to do with what people believe. The fact is that many Christians believe in the story of Lucifer (and most in a fallen angel named Satan). Obviously atheists are not literally accusing what they believe to be a fictional being of being evil. The point is that most Christians hold the belief in the inherent good of a being that has some wicked deeds associated with it.
Huh? Yer suggesting that this God and Jesus were actually the same guy? "but he did it for us in his son." LOL...well either you mean to suggest that God lets others do his dirty-work... OR...might you be suggesting that God and Jesus are one...because God and MAN are one? If that's the case...then its safe to assume that ALL LIVING THINGS ARE GOD...right? I'm a God...you're a God...hell my dog Snoopy's a God...and Snoopy's a dope. OK...lets assume you mean the former...'cause the first option paints this God as a coward...and we don't call God a coward...do we... So we are all "Little Gods" or "Little PIECES of God". But wouldn't that make God...simply the force of life and consciousness? Sentient definitely...individualistic...perhaps...GOOD? I guess that's up to the individual to decide. Consider though, the tangled web we've woven. Because if ALL men are "Little Gods" and we are all equal does this mean that if I were to harp and wail in public squares about establishment injustices and the path to eternal salvation, and executed for this and perhaps other "crimes"...that I TOO could be deified and worshiped as a God? What I'm saying is this whole religious fervor is...illogical as hell. It hands those who question...the very means they need to disprove or debunk said religion. For if Jesus was just a MAN...nothing more special than you or I...why the hell should I kneel and scrape to his memory? Wouldn't it be more rational to simply acknowledge the man as "special" and move on? INSTEAD OF TRYING TO CONVINCE HUMANITY THAT HE WAS IN FACT SOMETHING MORE THAN A "LITTLE GOD" LIKE EVERY ONE OF US...AND DEIFYING HIM AS A GOD HIMSELF? Do you see the illogical and paradoxical bent of this? Is it any wonder so many are waking up and saying, "hey...wait a minute..."
Angels have free will. Half of the Angels willingly followed God. Lucifer feels that he is better than god. His hatred comes from the idea that god holds him and the other angels back to remain on top, but they are actually his equals.
like hercules? If i was a god and didnt like something, i wouldn't kill myself to let spoiled brats lie, cheat, steal and be (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)busters just because they can we know you dont think..... You have access to many bibles and will not read the parts that share, be fricken responsible because you will perish in one hell of a judgment if yu dont. he died for love and lives because of love....... That is like Osama bin Laden; he killed for love and will live in the hearts of millions for that love. Heck, even adolf hitler could fit that!
The answer is maybe more easy than I thought first: My god is always good to me - while your thoughts about your not existing god were never good for you. I'm just simple priviledged. http://youtu.be/EuVVvEig2ic
This is the second time I've seen an argument similar to this. I am going to dub it the "God as crony capitalist" model.
