Ah, the full script. I've not seen it yet. Let's see: So, he's justifying Jihad because the West is attacking Muslims because people like him decided (and still are deciding) to kill people in the name of God for not being Muslim. Justifying anything on the basis of an invisible man in the sky is already stupid - even moreso when you're justifying murder. I'm not sayin' we should have gone to Afghanistan, but those guys really had it coming to them honestly.
Felicity, will you actually pay any attention to my explanation or will you just ignore it and ask for an explanation again?
By the Star when it goes down,- Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled. Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him: He was taught by one Mighty in Power, Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form); While he was in the highest part of the horizon: Then he approached and came closer, And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer; So did (Allah) convey the inspiration to His Servant- (conveyed) what He (meant) to convey.
http://quran.com/5/27-32 These verses discuss the story of Able and Cain, ending with the verse: http://quran.com/5/33 Then the punishment for those who wage war against Muslims is given. This is no longer about the Children of Israel. http://quran.com/5/34 But those who repent before being defeated or captured in war are forgiven by the Most Merciful. http://quran.com/5/35 O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in his cause: that ye may prosper. A message to the Muslims. http://quran.com/5/36-37 It means, on the Day of Judgement no amount of worldly possessions can save those who rejected faith. By then, it will be too late. http://quran.com/5/38-39 These two verses prescribe a punishment for thieves, and also giving them a chance to repent, respectively. This is not connected to 5:27 - 5:37. http://quran.com/5/40 Stating that Allah SWT is all powerful. http://quran.com/5/41 Addressed to Muhammad (pbuh) saying not to grieve or become distressed if people do not accept the Message, be they Jew or hypocrite. Allah SWT doesn't purify their hearts because they refuse to accept the Message. http://quran.com/5/42-44 Saying to judge among the Jews with equity and their own law from the Torah given to Moses (pbuh). http://quran.com/5/45 Prescribes an eye for an eye, but if you forgive for the transgression Allah SWT will forgive you from your sins. http://quran.com/5/46-47 Christians are to follow the Bible given to Jesus (pbuh). http://quran.com/5/48-50 Jews, Christians, and Muslims are to follow the laws of their respective scriptures. Whoever turns away will be punished by Allah. Avoid the laws of the pagans (pre-Islamic laws) and follow the laws prescribed by Allah. http://quran.com/5/51-120 The rest of the Quran. 5:51 is not in the same context as 5:41 - 5:50. However it does not say anything resembling... What it means is to not take Christians and Jews for allies over Muslims. The Christians are allies to each other, and the Jews are allies to each other, therefore Muslims should be allies to each other. But the verse doesn't backtrack on the 24 ayat before this.
Are you actually going to explain it? I have paid very close attention thus far to your responses thus far. Perhaps that is what you're not used to on these forums. I will accept an explanation even if I don't agree with it--it's an explanation after all--but to give half statements and dismissals is not an explanation. Can you be thorough? If so, then, yes, I will accept the explanation. That does not mean I will agree with the reasoning, nor does it mean I will not ask for point of clarification if something is vague or could be taken in a different way than might be intended.
Hey! Thanks for that. I DO accept what you have said here...however, I think there re some things that you gloss over. Can you expand on them as noted below in RED? Thank you in advance for your further clarifications.
You post a link, and then interpretate it in a weird way. I don't mind going through this with you. But I have to ask we go a few at a time. Say two at a time. Post the ones you wish to talk of, and we can talk.
Okay so 32 and 51 are the first ones you posted. Here is what 32 says; Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors. Okay, so they have kept on transgressing. Now 51; O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people. I am sorry, I fail to see how these two are related. I don't get why you also posted that they need to be cut and crucified. This verse says no such thing. Instead all this verse says is in a time of war we are forbidden to go to a different camp to seek shelter. Instead we stay with out own. I offer this to read, as it is indepth and explains the verse very well http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-the-scholar/international-relations-and-jihad/relations-during-peace/174411.html
Please note the post above yours. My comments are in red. I'd love to hear your thoughts on what I see as three issues in that spate of verses. 1. the question of error in 5: 46-47 #2 The seeming contradiction concerning repentance and Allah's response to repentance seen in verses 34, 41, and 52. #3 And the seeming command that Jews and Christians are to follow their own teachings, but those teachings are wrong (according to the Koran). Why would Allah have Jews and Christians be wrong rather than accept repentance and welcome them? Again--this goes back to that seeming contradiction mentioned in my #1. - - - Updated - - - Yeah...I linked to the wrong verse on that ...I corrected it a tad later.
OKay, so I am fairly new. And I do not know how to do some of this, so bare with me. You said; Okay. So let me paste 5;46-47 And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous. And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient. What was given was the gospel. The "goodnews". But as the Quran testifies to, it was corrupted. Regardless, it says they will be judged by what was revealed. I see no error in this. Now, allow me to post the verses, but I will post extra in order to make sure we get the context correct. 33-34 Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,Except for those who return [repenting] before you apprehend them. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.Okay. So here the Quran says to punish those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger. That is, unless they come repenting. 41 O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts believe not, and from among the Jews. [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom Allah intends fitnah - never will you possess [power to do] for him a thing against Allah . Those are the ones for whom Allah does not intend to purify their hearts. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment. Okay. Please don't take offense, but I fail to see the connection to 33-34 52 So you see those in whose hearts is disease hastening into [association with] them, saying, "We are afraid a misfortune may strike us." But perhaps Allah will bring conquest or a decision from Him, and they will become, over what they have been concealing within themselves, regretful.Again, I am sorry, I don't see any relevance to repentance nor to the other verses you mentioned. Despite being corrupted, the Quran says there are righteous amongst them, who follow the laws and are good people.
I will be a bit difficult to reply to it, next time can you separate each part with quote tags. I know it is a bit more work but it makes it easier to reply to directly, as the post (red parts) will show up when I press Reply to Post. PS: The reason I glanced over some of them, and waited so long for a reply, was because I was replying over my smartphone. And it is a pain to make long posts on it, as the keyboard starts to work slow if there are too many characters. I had to leave out the verses, except for one. I am on a computer now, and you can see the difference in quality from the posts on my cellphone and laptop. Anyway... Just read the verses. 5:27 Recite to them the truth of the story of the two sons of Adam. Behold! they each presented a sacrifice (to Allah): It was accepted from one, but not from the other. Said the latter: "Be sure I will slay thee." "Surely," said the former, "Allah doth accept of the sacrifice of those who are righteous. 5:28 "If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear Allah, the cherisher of the worlds. 5:29 "For me, I intend to let thee draw on thyself my sin as well as thine, for thou wilt be among the companions of the fire, and that is the reward of those who do wrong." 5:30 The (selfish) soul of the other led him to the murder of his brother: he murdered him, and became (himself) one of the lost ones. 5:31 Then Allah sent a raven, who scratched the ground, to show him how to hide the shame of his brother. "Woe is me!" said he; "Was I not even able to be as this raven, and to hide the shame of my brother?" then he became full of regrets- 5:32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. 5:33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; I can't really explain how it is different, it's just something you know by reading it. Yes, they were. I know you did not mention this verse in your original post, but to make sense of the other verses I felt it was necessary to mention it. Okay. Actually, I was incorrect. It was "connected" from 5:36 on. 5:36 As to those who reject Faith,- if they had everything on earth, and twice repeated, to give as ransom for the penalty of the Day of Judgment, it would never be accepted of them, theirs would be a grievous penalty. 5:37 Their wish will be to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out therefrom: their penalty will be one that endures. 5:38 As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power. 5:39 But if the thief repents after his crime, and amends his conduct, Allah turneth to him in forgiveness; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. What I meant was they don't refer to the Children of Israel. Like with 5:33, 5:36-37 and 5:38-39 refer to those who reject faith and thieves, respectively. If we look at it in relation to the verses preceding it. 5:38 As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power. 5:39 But if the thief repents after his crime, and amends his conduct, Allah turneth to him in forgiveness; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. 5:40 Knowest thou not that to Allah (alone) belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth? He punisheth whom He pleaseth, and He forgiveth whom He pleaseth: and Allah hath power over all things. The verses preceding it says that Allah SWT is Oft-forgiving and Most Merciful. Then 5:40, Allah SWT says he has power over all things and he can punish or forgive who he pleases. I see this as Allah SWT saying not to judge the people who repent for their sins because only He can do that. Allah SWT decides what He forgives and what he doesn't, not us. 5:34 Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. 5:41 O Messenger! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, "If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!" If any one's trial is intended by Allah, thou hast no authority in the least for him against Allah. For such - it is not Allah's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment. 5:34 speaks about prisoners of war, 5:41 speaks of the hypocrites and the Jews, but not of repentance. We have free will to believe or not, those who refuse to believe (in this case, hypocrites and Jews) have their hearts sealed by Allah SWT (which is why it says, "O Messenger! let not those grieve thee...). This verse does not speak about repentance. 5:43 But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith. Yes, that would be correct. I think I misunderstood what you said the first time I replied. It's not calling them liar for doing this. It is calling them unfaithful. 5:44 It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers. 5:45 We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers. What the verse is saying is that Jews are to be judged by the Torah, the ones that refuse to be judge by what Allah SWT has revealed to them are equal to the wrong-doers and unbelievers. Jews and Christians, under Sharia, are to be judged by their own laws. That is how it was in the Prophets time. These two (and a third one below) I will reply to in a separate post. 5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. It is implied. It says do not take them as allies because they are allies of each other. Therefore, for a Muslim to take one group as an ally would be the same as joining them. There is another verse in the Quran which says similar. 3:28 Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. I will reply to this one in my next post as well.
This is because of the Muslim belief about Jesus (peace be upon him). We don't believe he was the son of God or god himself, we believe he was a Messenger, a Prophet of Allah SWT. We believe Allah SWT sent Jesus (peace be upon him) to confirm the Torah and tell the Children of Israel the Message of Allah SWT (the Injeel, or Gospel) as well as tell them of Muhammad (peace be upon him). There are other revelations as well, like the Psalms of David. We believe Jesus (peace be upon him) was given a Gospel of his own and shared it with the disciples, and that it has become forgotten among the Christians.We believe there was a Gospel of Jesus, but it was altered and corrupted over the times into the Gospels there are today. It is no longer the Words of God, but it is words inspired by God. The Bible of today could probably be compared mostly to the Hadith in Islam, traditions of Jesus (peace be upon him) but not necessarily divine revelation. Or, perhaps, Jesus (peace be upon him) was the Gospel. Injeel has many meanings in English, including "good tidings." It does make sense, when looking at a verse like: Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah; I am getting a bit carried away now. 5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. 5:52 Those in whose hearts is a disease - thou seest how eagerly they run about amongst them, saying: "We do fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster." Ah! perhaps Allah will give (thee) victory, or a decision according to His will. Then will they repent of the thoughts which they secretly harboured in their hearts. 5:53 And those who believe will say: "Are these the men who swore their strongest oaths by Allah, that they were with you?" All that they do will be in vain, and they will fall into (nothing but) ruin. 5:54 O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things. Look at some context for the verse. The disease being mentioned is not Judaism or Christianity. It is hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is referred to as a disease quite often in the Quran. The hypocrites are the ones who pretend to be Muslims but allied with the Christians and Jews, or even abandoned their faith. There is no compulsion in Islam, and they are still People of the Book. The Books must still contain portions of the original revelations from Allah SWT, hence they are still suitable to being used to judge by. Why Allah SWT decided this we will never know, but we can make assumptions. Allah SWT knows the TRUE interpretation of the Quran. That is one of the tests of life as a Muslim. To study it. To learn it. To interpret it. To believe in it. 3:7 He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding. I'm looking forward to Assad's reply and views.
It appears to me to be a summary statement concerning all that came before it--it lays out the punishment for those "Children of Israel" that "commit excesses in the land." But since you just "know by reading it"....I dunno...it doesn't really answer/explain, but it's just what you believe it says...so be it. I think differently. What translation are you using now? It's not the same as the one you started with. "Oft-forgiving" is not what it said. Sahih International But whoever repents after his wrongdoing and reforms, indeed, Allah will turn to him in forgiveness. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. One states he is always forgiving, and the other doesnt state that--only that hes oft-forgiving. Which is it? Is he always or oft fogiving of repentant transgressors? So you do agree with my original interpretation of that verse now? But also in 39 it says, Sahih International But whoever repents after his wrongdoing and reforms, indeed, Allah will turn to him in forgiveness. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. 34 says before one gets caught he can repent, 39 says after the wrongdooings one can repent and Allah will forgive, and then we get to 41............ Again--this is quite a different translation than the one you were using before I find that kind of ironic considering what this new translation of yours is saying about chang[ing]the words --lol. There is quite a big difference between these two translations--some lines added, some deleted, it appears. Again--Im curious why you switched translations. What does have their hearts sealed mean? Is this not a prohibition of repentance by Allah and therefore a refusal of forgiveness, and a sentence of hell-fire? Also--this statement of yours concerning Jews is relevant to the later verses where you said Jews, Christians, and Muslims are to follow the laws of their respective scriptures. (http://www.politicalforum.com/religion-philosophy/273097-islam-thread-2-a-9.html#post1062676750) Here you say that the Koran states that Jews have their hearts sealed by Allah, but you also say that Jews are supposed to follow their own scriptures. How can they both obey Allah and also have their hearts sealed in unbelief? How is following their teachings (as you said they are supposed to) being unfaithful? I dont get your point--it appears contradictory. When did this surah switch to talking about Sharia rather than relationship to Allah? It was talking about repentance, recompense, and faith...now its talking about how human beings govern one another? Nonetheless, the point still remains: How are Jews, who are SUPPOSED to follow their teachings considered unfaithful by following their teachings? I will address them there, then. However, it does appear by your comments, you are now agreeing that it says Muslims should NEVER ally with Jews or Christians rather than what you originally said (which was to not take Jews or Christians as allies "over Muslims"). It's a slight but rather important distinction. Lastly--please do not forget to explain why you changed translations for your explanations--that seems contrived, but I'll wait to see what you say in explanation.
And your evidence of this is Muhammad's word which you take to be Divinely inspired and uncorrupted. --Is this correct? This is more in line with Christian thought. Jesus Himself is the Living Word of God. As God Spoke, and all that is came into existence, it was through the Word that life was given in "the beginning." In a world dead in sin, we were given new Life through the Word of God made Flesh in the person of Jesus. That is why we Christians see Jesus as a manifested Person of the One True God--He is the Word made Flesh. And we become a "new creation." I suppose I did too. So...I’m not understanding why there is such division--why would Allah COMMAND division among people who share revelation? You say, “we will never know”...but tell me, how does that sound to you? Does that demonstrate “mercy and forgiveness” as the Koran frequently states that Allah is? Does it demonstrate wisdom and justice? Look at all the chaos such division creates! You say that Allah abhors hypocricy--is it not hypocritical to sow disunity among peoples he revealed supposed truth to, and then (as 54 says) threaten to dump even the Muslims and get a newer people if they turn away from the Faith (this supposed revelation that can so easily be corrupted as demonstrated by the Jew's corruption and the Christian's corruption). Allah demands Faith, but is not Faithful to his people?! Does this SOUND like a God that “encompasseth all, and... knoweth all things”? Allah knows what he wants, but won’t protect his revelation from corruptions??? How is that a just and faithful God--that expects mere creatures to navigate a revelation that can be false at any time un-beknownst to the “believer” as demonstrated by what happened to the revelation to the Jews and Christians as Islam believes? I find those things hard to write--I am a Christian--a follower of the God of Abraham--so I see a brotherhood in our beliefs. However, Allah appears to be NOTHING like the God we Christians know though our faiths supposedly branch from the same source. It pains me to see such a petulant and vindictive representation of the God of Abraham in what you refer to as Allah. I apologize if this comes off as insulting--I do not mean it that way at all. I wish to simply point out the extreme inconsistencies abounding here in the explanation of the nature of God/Allah as represented in the Koran and in your explanations of the verses. So...only a few will know it? And I presume you believe these are Muslim men. And all this on the verbal statements of one man named Muhammad. Can I ask...Why do you believe Muhammad?
Why do you and I believe Mark, Matthew, Luke and John and their accounts about Jesus that are wide-open to interpretation? There's no reason why we should other than faith. And that's probably the most powerful reason of all.
I've always wondered about the concept of monotheism in Islam. Christianity is also monotheistic but over time certain groups tend to expand the single nature of god. The holy trinity (father, son, holy spirit) is of course the most important but over time certain sects such as catholicism have treated saints and Mary the mother of Jesus as at least worthy of prayer and 'intercession'. Hinduism goes even further with many gods. A casual look at these gods seems to indicate that they are aspects of a single godhead and man's complex relationships with his deep soul very much like the ancient Greeks who had multiple gods as well which could be seen as various aspects of mans existence. At the very least a split between a god and a goddess is common. But I don't see that in Islam. As far as I know nobody prays to Mohammed only to Allah (God). Personally I believe that it is natural for people to split the godhead into multiple gods. It happens through history wherever the strong monotheistic political/religious coercive empires do not hold sway. By that I include Christianity. Sort of like taking small bites of a meal instead of choking on the whole thing at once. Human life is too complex to take in all at once so people feel more comfortable with small personable gods dealing with various aspects of existence. Like blind men touching an elephant. So how does Islam retain the unity of God when it is natural for people to go the other way? Along those lines I understand that the Islamic attitude towards followers of polytheistic religions such a Hinduism and Paganism in general is very different from that towards Jews and Christians. I very curious about these issues. Could you address them?
I disagree...there are other reasons that I could enumerate (and have, elsewhere), but this is not a thread about Christianity.
The punishments listed in 5:33 are for anybody who wages war against Muslims. What I mean by "you just know by reading it" is well, when you read it... The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; It states this at the beginning of the verse. I use Yusuf Ali all the time. But it doesn't really matter if it says "oft-forgiving", "most-forgiving", "ever-forgiving", or just "forgiving", it has the same meaning. Ghafur in Arabic means forgiving. Yes, and no. What you said was true, however I think what the verse is saying is that none of us have the right to say what Allah SWT will or will not forgive, because it is ultimately his decision. 5:34 and 5:39 are talking about two different situations... 5:33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; 5:34 Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. 5:38 As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power. 5:39 But if the thief repents after his crime, and amends his conduct, Allah turneth to him in forgiveness; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. They are not comparable. The words in the Arabic are the same, it's the translations which differ minorly. I have always used Yusuf Ali on this forum since I can remember, I haven't switched from it. They differ in minor words, but don't leave out anything... Sahih International 5:41O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts believe not, and from among the Jews. [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom Allah intends fitnah - never will you possess [power to do] for him a thing against Allah . Those are the ones for whom Allah does not intend to purify their hearts. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment. Yusuf Ali 5:41 O Messenger! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, "If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!" If any one's trial is intended by Allah, thou hast no authority in the least for him against Allah. For such - it is not Allah's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment. They have their hearts sealed from Islam, from accepting Allah SWT's message (Quran). They are given the choice to submit in Islam, or reject it. Those who reject it, Allah SWT seals their hearts from His Message, and He also lifts the seal. They are People of the Book. They believe in God still. The verse is saying they are unfaithful because they do not follow their own teachings, not because they are.... But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith. It was my example of the Prophet (pbuh) using the Torah when governing over Jews. [/quote] They are unfaithful for not following the Torah. For ignoring what Allah SWT revealed to them, for lying about it. They are unfaithful because they... 5:42 (They are fond of) listening to falsehood, of devouring anything forbidden. If they do come to thee, either judge between them, or decline to interfere. If thou decline, they cannot hurt thee in the least. If thou judge, judge in equity between them. For Allah loveth those who judge in equity. And they didn't judge from the Torah. This is what I said... 5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. It is implied. It says do not take them as allies because they are allies of each other. Therefore, for a Muslim to take one group as an ally would be the same as joining them. There is another verse in the Quran which says similar. 3:28 Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. I didn't change translations. Go to http://quran.com/5/25-55 This is the page I have open. Uncheck "Sahih International" and check "Yusuf Ali" instead. If I did use a different translation, it was by mistake but I use Yusuf Ali all the time on this forum because this is the nearest to the physical Quran I have at home.
Well, we believe it is God's word, but yes. The Gospels of today are like the Hadith in Islam. They are not all unauthentic recollections of Jesus's (pbuh) life, but they are the words of the disciples. It's something I am planning to look into more. But I think considering him the "Word made Flesh" because of this is wrong because then wouldn't Moses and Muhammad (pbut) both also be considered that? As they also brought God's message to their people. But this is for a different thread. An interesting topic, though. He doesn't. He gives us a choice. Free will. That is one of the reasons of life, I think. To worship Allah SWT. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are not different religions per say. They have the same foundations and the same God. Moses (pbuh) was sent to the Children of Israel in Egypt and delivered his Message. The same Message which Prophets before his time gave to their people. After Moses (pbuh), Allah SWT sent Jesus (pbuh) to the Children of Israel, confirming the Message sent to all the Prophets including Moses, and bringing them the Word of God. After Jesus (pbuh), Muhammad (pbuh) was sent as a Seal of the Prophets. Confirming the Message that Jesus, Moses, and all the Prophets (pbut) brought to their people. None of the Scriptures command anything like that. They don't command fighting each other simply because one is not a Muslim, or a Jew, or a Christian. People divide among each other for countless reasons. Religion, nationality, skin colour, wealth, language, intelligence, etc. Do you blame God for this? He made us different so that we would show compassion to each other. Not to fight each other. It is a test for us. Just because we fail does not mean this is at all God's fault. Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will). You suggest God make us all look the same, think the same, and have no free will? Then what is the point of creating us? The only time Allah SWT causes enmity between a people was after they broke the covenant with him, as a punishment for doing so. But no, the purpose of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity is not to cause violence and killing among the religious populations. If this was the case every inch of this planet would be stuck in a 3-way religious war. 24 After Moses finished writing in a book the words of this law from beginning to end, 25 he gave this command to the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord: 26 “Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God. There it will remain as a witness against you. 27 For I know how rebellious and stiff-necked you are. If you have been rebellious against the Lord while I am still alive and with you, how much more will you rebel after I die! 28 Assemble before me all the elders of your tribes and all your officials, so that I can speak these words in their hearing and call the heavens and the earth to testify against them. 29 For I know that after my death you are sure to become utterly corrupt and to turn from the way I have commanded you. In days to come, disaster will fall on you because you will do evil in the sight of the Lord and arouse his anger by what your hands have made.” Deuteronomy 31:24-29 Allah did aforetime take a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we appointed twelve captains among them. And Allah said: "I am with you: if ye (but) establish regular prayers, practise regular charity, believe in my messengers, honour and assist them, and loan to Allah a beautiful loan, verily I will wipe out from you your evils, and admit you to gardens with rivers flowing beneath; but if any of you, after this, resisteth faith, he hath truly wandered from the path or rectitude." But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind. From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done. Surah al-Ma'idah 5:12-14 He "allowed" it to be corrupt because this was one of the tests for the Children of Israel. They failed it with the Torah, and the Bible. The Quran is the final Message from God and so he preserves it. It is insulting. I don't really see any consistencies. You have connected separate verses of the Quran while simultaneously ignoring verses in between them and trying to make sense of it. This is not on a contradiction on the Quran's part.... Because the Quran makes sense to me. I have read it many times, and have looked at commentary from scholars to get a better understanding of it, and what it says I feel is true. Faith. It is the final revelation from Allah SWT confirming what was before it. It teaches to be peaceful to those who are peaceful, and the only permissible reason for war is out of self-defence against the oppressor or aggressor and only for as long as they continue fighting. If the world followed this one simple rule, there would be a lot more peace around here. It doesn't contradict itself, unless you try to make it contradict itself. And that can only be accomplished by making unreasonable links between verses and taking them out of context. As Muslims we cannot do this. Our job is not to just read the Quran and call it a day. We need to know what we are reading. Not everybody follows the rules, but nonetheless that is the rule and it will never change. Having an understanding of Islam goes a long way in living a peaceful life while submitting to Allah SWT's will as a Muslim. People have been doing it for centuries. And for centuries to come, Insha'Allah. I will end off the exchange with Surah al-Kafiroon (Unbelievers). Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine.
Thanks for the question Well, for one thing, there are no [legitimate] pictures of Muhammad (pbuh) for that very reason. Nobody who wants to can make a shrine or a statue or a painting of the Prophet (pbuh) they have done for other religious figures in the past. We don't have any visualization of him. Also, the Shahada, the words that every Muslim repeats during prayer, the adhaan (call to prayer), to convert to Islam, among other reasons: La ilaha ilallah wa Muhammad rasool'Allah There is no God but God, and Muhammad is His Messenger. Monotheism in Islam is the what the faith is all about. Without monotheism, Islam wouldn't make sense. I also think that one reason Islam has kept strictly to monotheism is because during it's establishment in Arabia, the people opposing Islam were Pagans. They had many, many different gods. So there would need to be an efficient method of countering Paganism directly. Which Islam and Allah SWT has obviously succeeded in doing. There is a difference between Jews/Christians and Pagans/polytheists. The Islamic perspective is this*: Jews and Christians are People of the Book in Islam. They believe in one God, the one that created the universe. And in Islam, these religions are divine in their own right. When it comes to paganism/polytheism, they have many different gods and so they don't have the "People of the Book" status. As well, Muslims have a much nastier history with the Quraish and other pagan tribes than they have had with Jews and Christians. I hope this answers your questions. Salaam *This is my view from what I have studied about Islam. I note this because not every Muslim might see it the same way. There are of course some with more knowledge than I have when it comes to Islam. So this is more like a disclaimer in case somebody answers this post with a different answer that contradicts or differs from my own.
I am not sure if I have posted this before, but this was the final message the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) left to mankind before his death. It actually brings tears to my eyes every time I read it... I don't know why. It's so moving. Anyway, here it is... O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore, listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today. O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that He will indeed reckon your deeds. God has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. God has Judged that there shall be no interest, and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn Abdal Muttalib shall henceforth be waived... Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things. O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under a trust from God and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste. O People, listen to me in earnest, worship God, perform your five daily prayers, fast during the month of Ramadan, and offer Zakat. Perform Hajj if you have the means. All mankind is from Adam and Eve. An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; white has no superiority over black, nor does a black have any superiority over white; [none have superiority over another] except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves. Remember, one day you will appear before God and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone. O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and my example, the Sunnah, and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and it may be that the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O God, that I have conveyed your message to your people. Surah al-'Anbya, ayah 107: We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures.
So lovely and "peace-loving." Not. So what does it mean--he forgives all the time, or only some of the time when he feels like it? Why doesn't Allah tell us. Jesus told his disciples that God is "faithful and just to forgive us" http://biblehub.com/1_john/1-9.htm Why won't Allah be straight with the people? ...of course they are. .... Where does it say he "lifts the seal" and when? Aren't you supposed to not believe the liars when they say "I believe?" It's a Catch 22. That's the CLEAR contradiction. You claim Allah makes the decision, but really it is Muslims justifying their disdain for people who do not readily swallow the bolus of proselytizing you toss at people. If you hear it and question it, your heart is sealed. And if you later claim to believe it...well, you're lying. All the while you say it is Allah in control. yeah...right. So? According to your doctrine they are going to hellfire--no better than the godless or the pagans. Their own teaching.....which you say is wrong. How COULD they follow their teaching RIGHT? Become Muslim, I suppose. But wait! They can't....because they (being Jewish) must follow their OWN faith because Allah revealed it to them....however, it is corrupted (according to you), and they must remain "faithless" because...well...they had their chance. Yup...see? They can't even convert because they are just not worthy. See? They are screwed because their faith supposedly screwed up long ago in corrupting the texts and teaching...so...you can't know what was really revealed in the Torah--it's been corrupted, and you can't convert to Islam because you had your chance, so too bad/so sad Jews...you're going to hell. Ridiculous.
I don't understand you... We just finished a pointless back and forth and here I was thinking you have sincere questions only to be proven wrong about your intentions. Thank you for that. Really, I love wasting my time. I just hope other people reading these posts will be more sincere about their intentions than you have been. You refuse to understand the Quran. That is fine. I've gone through my patience with you and you have only gotten more and more disrespectful as the conversation has gone on. I don't need to go through this. There are people with real questions with the sincere intentions to get answers. You can enjoy my block list for a little while. I can summarize all of this with one quote. Salaam wa'alykum. ----------
