Kamala Harris says rich people sell out the middle class.

Lol. This is an American phenomenon.

Agree though, it's disgusting.

 

Places like Sweden also were reasonably unscathed by WW2. They too live in a world in which Japan became a globally potent economic powerhouse. And they don't even have a minimum wage. But they're doing infinitely better per capita than those in the US.

 

I don't know that all, but the way you framed your last post you make it seem as though we should be pitying the sad, rich people out there, which sounds like a very uppity and privileged thing to say, almost like you're looking down on poor people.

See, this is what I meant what I said "very uppity and privileged" just now. You just made the very incorrect assumption that they never took risks or did anything or just weren't intelligent enough, which by all accounts is a very blanket bullshit statement. And again, you haven't even considered that there's context or reasons for why things happen. Lots of people have a hard time making ends meet as it is, and plenty of those poorer folks are actually trying and want to save money but its really ****ing hard when life gets in the way, as it tends to. Or they actually took a risk, like you wrongly suggested they didn't, and it backfired tremendously and they're now in the same position or an even worse one than before.

But nope, it's because they're lazy, scared and stupid. No other possible reason in the world whatsoever

Oh, and you being poor at one time ain't proof, it's just one story out of thousands and not the rule at all. I'd think you would then have a better understanding of that situation and maybe even some empathy, but I guess not.....

Because that's just what they do, it's in their nature, billionaires like Elon Musk in particular.

 

On unions “You’re the greatest cutter,” Trump told Musk. “I look at what you do. You walk in and say, ‘You want to quit?’ I won’t mention the name of the company but they go on strike and you say, ’That’s OK. You’re all gone.'”
Billionaire Musk said, “Yeah,” and laughed while Trump was talking.
Republicans and the rich have been in the business of union busting. It is how millions of workers once entered the middle class.

 

First problem I have with this is that it is VERY possible to steal your way out of poverty, but you'd need to do it for a good long, consistent time and from the right people and not get caught. And yet at the same time, taxing the rich doesn't affect them that much because they're still rich at the end of the day. For some perspective, I believe Elon Musk pays about $11 billion in taxes, and his total net worth is $221.1 billion, so even if he was taxed 50% of his earnings he's still a multi-billionaire. So is Jeff Bezos, so is Mark Zuckerberg, even Taylor Swift would still be very well off after getting taxed.

NOW we're talking about things I sorta agree with, handing out cash on its own won't end it but just be a band-aid, especially if they have no financial literacy. But still, middle and lower class people in general don't have the luxury of still being extremely wealthy and well off even if they pay a lot in taxes. So yes, ending poverty through taxation is just stupid because life doesn't work like that and a lot of middle class people are falling off into lower class for this, among other reasons and can't pass off their wealth because it's shrinking steadily, and the constant inflation of things doesn't help..

 

while not always true, there is an old saying that conservatives are rich despite the government while leftists are rich because of the government. One of the best example was Al Gore Senior who ran as "the poor country school teacher" but then became Armand Hammer's main buttboy in the senate and as a result died a multi millionaire. But for his political office that never would have happened.

 

What is demonstrated here is the right-wing mindset i. e. mean spirited. Studies have shown the right's lack of empathy for those outside their particular clique. They believe for instance some people want to be poor and that providing a social safety net is theft. They don't like the poor. Forget about WWJD.
And they blame "politicians" for selling out the middle class. One way is supporting a social safety net. Another is not putting up tariffs and restricting imports, just another form of social safety net. What is not understood or a refusal to believe is the world's economy changed a while back. A little known cause is the rise of the shipping container which changed the world's economy. An example is fish caught in the north Atlantic by Norway are shipped to China to be deboned and then shipped back to Norway to be sold at a lower cost. So it is with all manufactured products. The service sector jobs in the US continue to grow. They contributed 78% of the US GDP. That's a lot, but most of those jobs are low pay with few benefits. A full time worker at McDonald's could be eligible for food stamps if she has kids. Tax payers are in essence supporting McDonalds. That needs to change and unionizing could help, but the rich no likey.

 

Rich people spend a lot of money. If you put in a $100k kitchen and a $40k master bath, ~ 55% of that is going out in wages.
In fact, your boss is probably pretty rich.

 

Lot of people take risks and sometimes is works, and sometimes you lose the little you had. Getting education and a good profession improves your chances significantly without having to risk it all.

I tried to google that saying, but didn't find any matches. And when again, it doesn't make sense because everyone has to navigate the same system no matter what their views are. I don't know anyone who is "rich because of the government".

 

here you are comparing apples to oranges. sweden did not feel it necessary to take in tens of millions of the world's poor, sweden is not a major global economic powerhouse, and sweden isn't running around trying to play world police.

 

it sure sounds like you're saying it's all right to steal from people who can afford the loss. by that logic it should be just fine with you to rape a prostitute as long as you throw a few bucks at her when you're done or to beat the living crap out of a boxer because that's what he is paid for. no, some things are just wrong and stealing from the wealthy is no less disgusting than stealing from the poor. for that matter, stealing from the poor should probably be better because they have so little and shouldn't miss what little they have to take.

oh, and did you miss where i said "almost" impossible. as you yourself pointed out, it usually takes a long time to steal enough to radically change your circumstances and there is very little chance of going unpunished long enough to finish the task. the greatest exception to this is the average politician. they've been robbing us blind forever and they have everyone convinced that this is exactly how things should be.

 

Sweden has a very high foreign born population. 32.3% of them has at least one parent born abroad.

Is they could play world police, they would. Anyone would, because it pays off.

 

Never said it was okay to do, just that rich people getting taxed a lot doesn't hurt their finances too much because a billionaire who gets taxed heavily is still gonna be a billionaire.

And furthermore, why should I give the slightest **** about if rich people get their funds stolen?

I didn't miss it.

 

Sounds like there's something to learn from there.

 

Union workers demands have also been the downfall of great companies like Yellow Trucking, and Hostess. There are more as well but I would have to look them up. There are business going out of business as we speak from vandalism and dine and dash and minimum wage increases all done by the poor.

 

Yes apples and oranges. Sweden has been taking in an average of 250,000 refuges per year. It has a population of 10.5 million or 1/33 ours. We have been hitting a record number of yearly Mexican border crossings at 250,000.

We got it. You don't like poor people with their wanting to increase the minimum wage and causing crime. You also don't like workers banding together to negotiate fair wages and benefits. The rich do not like that too. It cuts into profits, but that doesn't mean they are selling out the middle class, just protecting their money.

 

They are squandering the middle class when we are taxed and they are not while receiving more money in benefits than they put in.

 

It would be more accurate to say that economic growth goes to the upper ten percent of the population, and the lower half to two thirds are losing ground economically. There are three reasons for this. Liberals only want to talk about the first.

To begin with, beginning with the Reagan administration, taxes have been cut for the rich, labor unions have become weaker, and the minimum wage has lost ground to inflation.

Second, computer technology increases the relationship between intelligence and income. Computer technology enables geniuses to become, rich, it creates careers for those of above average intelligence, and it reduces the number of jobs paying lower middle class incomes for those of below average intelligence. Pretending that The Bell Curve is pseudo science does not change this.

Third, a growing population deflates wages while it inflates the cost of living, especially the cost of a place to live. In the United States the growth in the population is caused entirely by immigration.

 

Our "poor" have a standard of living that would be the envy of the vast majority of the rest of the world.

I watch an famous debate between James Baldwin and William F Buckley held at Cambridge in 1965 last night. The topic was ‘Has the American Dream been achieved at the expense of the American Negro?’ The underclassman who made the opening argument in opposition to the proposal noted the fact, and this is 1965 two years after the VRA and CRA, that the average income of the black family in America was HIGHER than the average income of any British family and in fact higher than France and Germany and couple of others he named.

It is a VERY good debate, in fact the head master states that this was THE most significant debate to have ever been held at Cambridge up to that time. If you care to watch it

 

ALL classes standards of living have increased over the decades in this country. The times they have fallen are under the high inflation periods as we have been going through. As recently as the Trump administration the middle class was seeing strong income growth like they had seen during the Bush43 economic growth period, the late 1990's under a Gingrich/Kasich Rep Congress and yes under Reagan.

And tax revenues soard after those tax rate increase and more of the tax burden was shifted to those high earner to the point now the highest earner pay by far a disproportionate share of taxes and the bottom 50% pay virtually nothing in federal taxes. If taxes have been so skewed in favor of the highest earners then why do the top 10% pay over 80% of federal taxes and that bottom 50% virtually nothing?

Computers and communications and efficient transportation and logistics and international banking exploded the local country defined markets into a HUGE worldwide market that is as easy to do business in India as down the street. HUGE markets and when someone comes up with an innovative idea it can be taken to that HUGE market and LOTS of money can be made. And it creates jobs in those fields and I don't look so down on the intelligence of others especially the middle class. A kid from high school can go to a trade school and get two years of electrical, hydraulics and PLC programming and become a robot technician almost anywhere in the country making six figures with great benefits. Manufacturers and logistics are begging for people and my state offers the training FOR FREE.

Not if the currency is properly managed against production and that growing population, if the government doesn't tax all the capital out of our free market, is need to supply the labor for that growing economy and people invest in new and better things. Get the government out of it and especially the government paying people not to work by promising to give them everything.