L.D.S. Baptism for the dead.... and Rabbi Nachman of Breslov.

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by DennisTate, Jun 26, 2018.

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Would you personally be offended... or happy to see somebody baptized on behalf of your ancestors?

  1. I would be offended.... I am sure all my ancestors are in heaven already.

    1 vote(s)
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  2. I would be happy..... because many of my ancestors did not know G-d well at all.

    3 vote(s)
    75.0%
  3. This idea is rather new to me and I have got to do more research on this to decide.

    0 vote(s)
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  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am kind of hoping that Latter Day Saints, The Mormons, might just be interested in assisting some Israeli friends of mine in their desire to have the remains of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov moved from Uman, Ukraine to somewhere in Israel.

    The thousands of Breslovian Chassidic Jewish pilgrims to the grave of Rabbi Nachman would be far safer from terrorists under the watchful eye of the I.D.F.

    This also would greatly increase tourism to Israel.

    I believe that Latter Day Saints might be interested in assisting in this initiative due to their teachings on baptisms for the deceased.

    https://www.lds.org/topics/baptisms-for-the-dead?lang=eng
     
  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, in my opinion, was one of the wisest teachers since King Solomon and I am a Christian who strongly suspects that Rabbi Nachman is a fulfillment of this promise from Rabbi Yeshua / Jesus.

    John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."

    I am of the belief that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus was right beside Rabbi Nachman of Breslov helping him
    with his mission in life....... .in spite of the fact that Rabbi Nachman did not understand what Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus had
    actually accomplished........ and did not know about his teachings that the pagan Christian church suppressed.

    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Nachman_of_Breslov
    My impression from his teachings..... is that Rabbi Nachman of Breslov had a powerful Cyrus calling on his life....... and on his ministry since his death.


    https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/isa/45/1/s_724001

    Isaiah 45:1


    To G-d.... the souls of the lost.... are of infinite value.....
    and every soul that Rabbi Nachman went down into Gehenna after.......
    who has been restored at least into one of the lower levels of paradise........
    is an example of off the scale valuable treasure both to Rabbi Nachman..... and to G-d who formed all souls and has set in motions ways to restore those souls from a fallen state!
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  3. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    If the LDS baptizes me by proxy when I'm dead that's perfectly okay with me.

    That could help; it couldn't possibly hurt. Thanks and good wishes in advance.
     
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  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is exactly how I feel as well....... how could their doing this for us or for one of our ancestors possibly do harm???????

    All churches have their share of errors because they are made up of people......
    but the Latter Day Saints seem to be the most open to modern near death experience
    accounts of any Christian church that I know of! (To my thinking this is a major feather in the cap of all Latter Day Saints, the Mormons)!


    The being of light of NDE fame, G-d or Satan?

    The near death experience account of Rabbi Alon Anava sure seems to verify many teachings of the Latter Day Saints regarding the state of many of the deceased.




     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, in my opinion........ .wrote like many modern near death experiencers.......
    He wrote with an authority and a boldness, (or should I say chutzpah)...... that was far beyond
    the usual.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nachman_of_Breslov
    I personally think that the writings and teachings of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov fit with II Corinthians 12:2-4......
    that I quoted in reply #4 here........
    I can see why the Apostle Paul might have been hesitant to tell his audience...... .that perhaps there was
    a way to take the unsaved deceased....... up out of Gehenna.... .one of the worst and hottest
    levels to the afterlife!
     
  6. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I never placed any importance on the ritual of baptism. But magic and hocus pocus was never my thing. I feel the same way about the magic blood of christian belief.

    LDS? If one wants to see how a new religion is created, you will find it here with this one. From the golden tablets that needed Moroni, an angel of help smith translate....in relative secrecy of course.

    You know what PT Barnum supposedly famously said.
     
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  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was baptized by a Worldwide Church of God pastor in 1979........
    and then re-baptized perhaps around 1995 or so by a Pastor from Yahweh's New Covenant Assembly........
    then I was re-baptized again by a Pentecostal Pastor a couple of years ago.......

    I consider that baptism by immersion shows our faith in the death, burial for three days and three nights and
    resurrection of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus.

    Now I am thinking about whether or not I should get re-baptized again or not........
    because I have to admit that what the Mormons teach about the state of the dead
    makes them a church that I might just be able to work with......... if some of what I wrote in the past
    doesn't offend their leadership too terribly?


    Auditions for the role of Elijah needed....

     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  8. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I understand it sir. I am just not a mind that sees it as anything but ritual, which affects nothing. Except for building social bonds between like minded people. Nothing wrong with that and it may be a good thing, socially speaking. But people are free to believe anything that they want. I am only speaking for this mind, and never claim that I have a hotline to the Truth. ha ha.
     
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  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For the record... my feeling that Rabbi Nachman of Breslov had a powerful
    Cyrus type of calling on his life...... could identify him with Moshiach ben Ephrayim,
    the Messiah son of Joseph / Yosef.


    http://www.britam.org/messiah.html

    MOSHIACH BEN YOSEPH
    by Yair Davidiy




    The Two Messiahs

    ......
    What Rabbi Nachman taught can cleanse the Temple of our hearts.......
    the temple of our minds...... the other brain that seems to be in the area of our stomach, (from which comes the saying..... "gut feeling")........ and even the temple of every cell in our bodies that are a temple for the Ruach ha Kodesh / The Holy Spirit. Studying what Rabbi Nachman taught can revolutionize how we Christians regard and apply the Sermon on the Mount by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I can sure identify with how you feel........
    around 1988 I began to suspect that there may be something terribly wrong with my
    beliefs at that time..... but.... I didn't know specifically what was wrong..........
    so I began to pray and ask G-d to give me wisdom....... and to show me what
    was wrong with my own ideas and beliefs.

    I asked with rather extreme chutzpah........... and I even asked G-d to not be so gentle and merciful to me that
    I missed what I was being shown......... .I told G-d to go ahead and be kind of rough.... because in an ignorant
    state of mind I would be of very little use to my family, friends or others that G-d brought me into contact with.

    Well.... by 1990 I was in the middle of a massive philosophical and theological crisis
    and over these past 28 years I found out error, after error, after error.... in my own belief system.

    These days...... I am aware of so many terribly flawed ideas in my own thinking in the past.......
    that I am wondering how much of what I believe at this time could be seriously flawed as well?????
     
  11. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you are in good company for many are where you are. And there is no certainty that how you think today will be the same a few years from now. Unless you have a real epiphany, a revolution in thinking/perception. Those tend to catch and hold. My own came in regards to what I can know and cannot know. It was actually quite painful, having grown up in a church from a very religious christian family. I do not discount knowledge that comes in a mystical fashion though, and yet this has not happened to me personally. If if did, I would think differently presently, or I should say that is possible. I chased enlightenment for over half of my life, until I simply gave up. I do not know if it even exists, regardless of what some authority tells me.

    I stay in a state of "not knowing". I found out that this is an ok place to be and it keeps my mind open, instead of closed on these issues. I think that state is more positive than negative, and I can be honest with myself. That is a good feeling.
     
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  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    About three weeks ago my wife's Pentecostal church did a Fire Tunnel.......
    everybody there prayed for everybody else........
    and about a day later I was hit with the strangest feelings that I have had in many years.

    For a number of hours..... all I could seem to do was walk and pray and walk and pray and walk and pray...... This same feeling hit me again the following day and the day after that.

    Basically I went through what Pentecostals would term Conviction....... over my own Pride.... and my own Lukewarm attitude to just about everything that I know G-d is doing.

    Basically I seem to have had a twofold increase in my level of fear of G-d... in comparison to where I was at before this experience.



    Could a Utah State Dollar save the USA Dollar?

    Notice please post #14 and #16........ (now whatever you do don't read post #15)!
    Clearly......... although I appear to be somewhat humble due to my being generally polite...... I am arguably one of the most egotistical people that I have ever heard tell of. Can you imagine a janitor taking on real scholars on a question so complex as stopping the rockets from landing on the town of Sderot, Israel????????

    I made that challenge back on June 9, 2014.... but so far...... neither of those two universities contacted me to elaborate on what I suspect could be a relatively simple problem to solve. Obviously..... my pride offended the 5830 people who at least took a look at that discussion so far. (Hint: I am really not all that fussy and I would elaborate on how this could be done with any university that finds this basic idea intriguing)!

    Proverbs 13:10 "Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom."

    Proverbs 11:2 "When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom."




    How can we stop the rockets from landing on Sderot, Israel?


     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  13. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So....in other words...You Freakin' LOST IT.
     
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  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes....... but I am kind of happy that it happened........
    because now I have a much better idea on how G-d
    can pack synagogues and churches..........
    within days.........
    once G-d turns loose on giving us a heart to fear the G-d of
    Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and King David!

    Numbers 11:29

    "And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!"



    2018 outpouring, are you feeling it? I am!




    When this young man speaks..... it seems to me that the synagogues are PACKED!





    Israeli Teen Returns from 15 Minutes of Clinical Death with Spiritual Messages Concerning the Coming Redemption



     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  15. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It makes you happy to live in fear...that is just weird.
     
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  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The fear is gone now...... and my level of calm and Shalom is actually increased from before that unusual incident.

    I also have a better idea of what I am supposed to do over the next decade of my life.

    Since last Sunday I was wondering and praying if I was supposed to get re-baptized again by the L.D.S. but it is becoming clearer to me that what I really need to do is become at least a Breslovian Noahide........ but I am leaning toward a full fledged Breslovian Chassidic Prostylite................. and I may even go further than that with it once I get officially started.

    I read in one of the L.D.S. books today that the Archangel Michael was connected to the Patriarch Adam............ I really hadn't thought of that before..... but that actually answers some of the questions that have been on my mind over the past two decades.


    A message from Adam to all mankind by Rick Joyner.

    http://64.71.77.248/fq-protestant/tc-en.html
    (About 1/5 of the way down this page under the heading):
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Rabbi Nachman of Breslov is referred to in this article from one of the faculty at a university in Utah.

    https://www.cs.utah.edu/~spiegel/kabbalah/jkm018.htm

    18 Planes of Existence
    18.1 Primordial planes
    also here:

    https://www.cs.utah.edu/~spiegel/kabbalah/jkm004.htm#Heading10931
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am in kind of a state of awe here......
    I just found a video by one of my favourite Christian visionaries......
    and he takes Latter Day Saint prophecies quite seriously!


    I posted a comment to this video:
    If.... Latter Day Saints put together a film series.... starring Mr. Mitt Romney as The White Horse President.....
    then I nominate Pastor Rick Joyner to be considered for the role of the final Elijah who stirs up the spirit of
    Mr. Mitt Romney............ who could well be identifiable with another modern King Cyrus or Darius type of
    political leader!

    Part of my logic in this recommendation is that this simple message supposedly from the Patriarch Adam...... can turn many of our hearts back toward our great, great, great..... grandfather Adam!

    In Latter Day Saint prophetic teachings... Adam is identified with the Archangel Michael:

    https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-6-the-fall-of-adam-and-eve?lang=eng
    A message from Adam to all mankind by Rick Joyner.

     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  19. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are born of water the 1st time when we emerge from the placenta.....has absolutely nothing to do with baptism. Baptism is done in obedience to Christ. It is an outward, public symbol of what has already taken place inside. The word "baptizo" actually means to drown, or to die to oneself.
    This discussion brings to mind what was said in scripture...."It is appointed for mankind once to die, and then judgement.". You need to come to the realization of the need for salvation before death. Baptism is not a requirement for that. The thief on the cross was never baptized yet he went to Paradise with Jesus.
     
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  20. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good point........ baptism is not necessary for salvation BUT........
    the thief on the cross was no longer able to get baptized.....
    (or should we say do a Mikvah)....... so of course Messiah Yeshua - Jesus did not need
    him to do that in order for him to enter paradise BUT........
    for those of us who have nothing stopping us from being baptized or even re-baptized.....we really should
    go ahead and do it........
    because it is a small price to pay for the blessings that follow the laying on of hands of
    a spiritual leader with genuine authority from G-d.

    If.... I am given some sort of assurance from a fairly well connected Latter Day Saint that my being
    baptized L.D.S. will not probably result in my being disfellowshipped from the church......
    within a year or two due to all that I write.... then I may well take the plunge in the not too distant future.


    I want to start an online outreach to Satanists....

    I am concerned that my serious leanings toward Eventual Universal Salvation... might be grounds for my eventually being dis-fellowshipped..... if I did officially become a Mormon?????
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  21. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is no reason for concern unless YOU create it in your mind by believing any pf this drivel. Think for a moment about the bigger picture.

    Thousands of religions claim they have the "One God" and thus they are all incorrect to everyone else. Some of these Gods have a Heaven or hell or both so even this cannot logically exists. Stick to your NDE thingy as it makes more sense than a religion even if it has as much validity and proof. NDE at least does not kill people, instead it brings people back from death.
     
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  22. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Universalism does tickle the ears of many. It is a very" broad path." As for me, I'll stick to the narrow.
     
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  23. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As you know, there is only one unforgivable sin....and it is definitely unforgivable,.....that is "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit". Jesus stands at the door and knocks. All one must do is answer and allow Him in.
     
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  24. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    "I am concerned that my serious leanings toward Eventual Universal Salvation... might be grounds for my eventually being dis-fellowshipped..... if I did officially become a Mormon?????"

    A judgment makes no sense if all are going to be saved.
     
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  25. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The "narrow path" vrs. the "wide path" that Jesus spoke about would make no sense either.
     
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