Lucifer's fall was partly God's fault.

God created Lucifer to be better than other angels. This led Lucifer to think himself special. Add in the fact that he had free will and was capable of pride, and other emotions, and it led him to be proud of the fact that God created him to be best of all angels. Pride in something that you did not accomplish on your own power always leads to arrogance. So, the fact thatGod created lucifer to be better than everyone else and gave him the capacity for pride, is what led Lucifer to turn against him.

 

Poor Lucifer...cursed with greatness.





...does that excuse arrogance and pride?

 

So you believe that giving someone the ability to think, reason and freely chose is wrong? Your argument is based on ignorance and what God is about.....God is not a dictator over the angels, though He is their king and master. God wants beings that obey Him because they chose to, because they know that what He tells them is always what is in their best interest.

 

Well if God is all knowing he knew this would happen to begin with. I sometimes think the entire Bible is just trolling. God is just trolling. He created mankind and let's his nasty little devil/angel thing, Satan I guess, roam freely to 'tempt' his creations, to harm us and do whatever else to us. And God knows what is and isn't going to happen from the very beginning. So yeah...It's all just a big divine joke! We are merely the ants under his magnifying glass. lol

And people wonder why so many of us don't take it seriously...

 

This reasoning is from ignorance.

 

Why? God is omniscient isn't he? He knew that creating Lucifer/Satan to begin with that he would try and take God's throne. Sooo...Maybe God just likes to set himself up for problems. What a drama queeeen!

 

I'll repeat: all your reasoning is coming from the position of ignorance so you conclusion will always be incorrect.

 

maybe people would take it seriously if they read it instead of repeating the pop culture comic book version.

 

Well you are failing to explain what part of what I have said is ignorant.

Is God not omniscient, because if he is not then I will recant my statement.

Also, lighten up a little. It's Thanksgiving. Although I have been crying all morning so...oh well.

 

Well I agree the ideas and views on God certainly change whenever the culture changes. However people viewed him originally is probably far different from how we view him now.

 

Your conclusions as to the Bible and why God does what He does.
God said to the children of Israel, "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither my ways your ways Isaiah 55:8. God knows what He is doing even if you are clueless.

He is omniscient, yes.

And I was thinking that you are the one that needs to lighten up.

 

Whoa, whoa whoa...Lois, this is NOT my Batman glass.

Ok, I always see Christians getting all mad when non-theists cherry-pick quotes out of the Bible yet when Christians do it...

Perhaps you'll post the whole thing in context and share your thoughts on the meaning behind it?

Then he knew what would happen upon creating Lucifer/Satan. He pretty much set the guy up for failure. That is if it is failure. Maybe Satan is the good guy and he was just fighting the tyranny of God. Hmm...sounds like an interesting plot line for a book hehe.

Trying to with my joking banter.

 

And what have I cherry picked? I simply told you that you are unaware of what God is doing.

If that's what you want to believe.

 

I would recommend abandoning the word fact and inserting the word opinion.

 

Angels had/have free will?

 

of course!

 

Where in scripture does it indicate Angels have free will? Some would suggest that the rebellion of satan and the fallen angels would infer free will. I think this is a stretch as we attempt to compare man and angels and God's relationship with both.

 

The following is about Satan (Lucifer--"Day Star")
It says that "in your heart" you (Lucifer) thought to "ascend...myself like the Most High"--that is free will in action.

Isa 14:

[12] "How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
[13] You said in your heart,
`I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far north;
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will make myself like the Most High.'
[15] But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the depths of the Pit.

 

Thanks F. I'm familiar with these verses. I just can't wrap my mind around this being free will in the sense that man views free will. After all angels are servants of God and their relationship with God is quite different than ours. It's not a salvation issue, so I'll just place it at the bottom of the heap of things that I find curious but not all that important in the scheme of things.

 

I don't think it is exactly like our free will in that Angels have a broader view of eternity. I think that their exercise of free will against God is an even greater abomination than man's due to their knowledge of God. Maybe that's why God offered a means to redeem Man, but the Angels' choice is irrevocable.

 

How about, nature is 'god' and mankind 'thinks' or has been self claimed as being better than nature?

ie... mankind is 'gods' creation (evolved from) and it is mankinds 'self' that made him believe he controls and is better than the garden (god)

Hence, the arrogance of the selfish of mankind, is what maintains the divides; see the religious wingnuts as 'evidence'

 

poor self serving idiots within mankind

and i have not excused you!

 

'we' are it; capable

i can see that from most every religious wingnut

they breath 'god'; the air

and eat; of HIS body.......

yet curse him, with deceptions of BS that 'he' is somewhere else.

the liars, divided mankind from GOD (mother nature herself)

exactly!

She is the boss, and each was born and will return, irregardless of what they believe

god(s), dont speak

mankind does

mankinds knowledge evolved from experiencing GOD (mother nature)

Nature shares the 'truth' and few comprehend 'its' life

To know life itself is to know 'god' (nature itself)

The humble seek 'life' the idiots deny what is real

 

the reasoning of mind is a comprehension; 'free will' exhibits itself from its actions.

ie... cant know LOVE without 'free will' to choose.

Best reason what is real before lying to the self, with belief

 

and it will 'change' once again.


ie... to know 'god' is to know 'yourself' (what you are)