More than a dozen Confederate statues vandalized around the country so far in 2019

Discussion in 'United States' started by APACHERAT, Jun 20, 2019.

  1. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    38,026
    Likes Received:
    16,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    But what was the reason why President Lincoln ordered the invasion of the South ?

    In 1861 seceding from the Union was legal.

    By 1865 it was illegal to secede from the Union.
     
    US Conservative likes this.
  2. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    86,664
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Most Confederate soldiers did not own slaves and did not fight and die for slavery
     
    APACHERAT likes this.
  3. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,457
    Likes Received:
    14,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    according to not one single Federal court or any reading of the US Constitution
     
  4. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    38,026
    Likes Received:
    16,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    But General Grant owned slaves.

    While 90% of the Confederate soldiers didn't own slaves.
     
    Mac-7 likes this.
  5. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    38,026
    Likes Received:
    16,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  6. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Why should they have to be moved?
     
  7. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    86,664
    Likes Received:
    17,636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I would guess closer to 99% did not own slaves
     
    APACHERAT likes this.
  8. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,457
    Likes Received:
    14,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    but....but...but!!!

    is not a rebutal.
     
  9. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,457
    Likes Received:
    14,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The US Constitution set forth the way a territory may join the USA or may split from an existing state to form a new state, and that is by the consent of Congress.

    Common sense states that this would be the ONLY way a state or part of a state may secede from the Union.

    So yes, secession was legal before 1861 and is still legal today. But Congress must approve.

    The Confederate states never sought the approval of Congress, therefore their secession was illegal as per the US Constitution.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  10. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    38,026
    Likes Received:
    16,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Before 1862 Lincoln never referred to the United States as a nation but as a union.

    Reason being before 1865 American's held their loyalty to the sovereign state they lived in, not to the federal government.

    By 1865 Lincoln stopped referring to the "Union" but the "Nation."

    What the Great Rebellion aka American Civil War accomplished was making America a nation no longer a union of sovereign states.
     
  11. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    38,026
    Likes Received:
    16,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Quoting Senator Abraham Lincoln on the floor of Congress...

    "Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable,---a most sacred right---a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government, may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can, may revolutionize, and make their own, of so much of the territory as they inhabit. More than this, a majority of any portion of such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority, intermingled with, or near about them, who may oppose their movement. Such minority, was precisely the case, of the tories of our own revolution. It is a quality of revolutions not to go by old lines, or old laws; but to break up both, and make new ones..."
    https://quod.lib.umich.edu/l/lincoln/lincoln1/1:444?rgn=div1;view=fulltext;q1=Lyceum
     
  12. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,457
    Likes Received:
    14,675
    Trophy Points:
    113


    so you're saying our Constitution is worthless?
     
  13. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,457
    Likes Received:
    14,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    there's nothing "great" about fighting a war to preserve white supremacist rule and slavery.
     
    AZ. likes this.
  14. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    38,026
    Likes Received:
    16,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Why are so many liberal activist judges keep changing the meaning and intent of the Constitution ?
     
  15. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,457
    Likes Received:
    14,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    so you're saying our Constitution is trash, not worthy of following?
     
  16. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    38,026
    Likes Received:
    16,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    I'm not a liberal or a cultural-marxist.

    I use the dictionary that was used at the time when our founding fathers wrote the Constitution when searching for the meaning and definition of the words found in the Constitution and read the Federalist Papers and personal journals and papers of the founding fathers and pretty much know the intent of the Constitution.

    And since the American Constitution is based more upon Natural Law than Common Law I have also read Vattel's.
     
  17. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,457
    Likes Received:
    14,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Constitution says the ONLY way to join the Union or break away from an existing state within the Union, is by the consent of Congress and the States.


    The states of the South, RATIFIED the US Constitution, thereby swearing to abide by it.

    They violated the Constitution by not seeking Congress' approval for their secession.

    Not a surprise, considering their primary reason to leaving the Union was to preserve white supremacy and slavery.
     
  18. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    cause republicans say they are not safe where they are and they want to protect their confederate statues

    I am thinking move them to Mar-a-Lago
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  19. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    38,026
    Likes Received:
    16,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Whatever the South reasons were, what was the federal government and the northern states reason for going to war ?
     
  20. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,457
    Likes Received:
    14,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To prevent the south from succeeding in their illegal process of secession, and their illegal seizure of federal property wealth and materials.
     
  21. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2012
    Messages:
    15,854
    Likes Received:
    11,608
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The victors write the history books. The merits aside, I'd like to know how the South seceding was different from what the US did in 1776. Had the American Revolution never happened there may not have been a Civil War, since the British Empire banned slavery in the 1830s.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  22. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    93,457
    Likes Received:
    14,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The 13 Colonies seceded to free themselves from tyrannical rule that imposed taxation upon colonies without letting those colonies have any representation in the Empires parliament, forcing civilians to feed and house British soldiers, forcing the Colonies to ship cotton to Britain so that they could then be sold back to the Colonies as products, and other nonsense.

    The South seceded so as to maintain and protect white supremacy and slavery.

    The South had a legal form of secession to follow...but they refused.

    The 13 Colonies had no legal way to address their concerns and grievances.
     
  23. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    29,682
    Likes Received:
    3,995
    Trophy Points:
    113
    She didn't want to be a slave. That is a crime in America.
     
  24. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    29,682
    Likes Received:
    3,995
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Too bad she couldn't have shot Jeff Davis.
     
  25. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    29,682
    Likes Received:
    3,995
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's a good thing Reagan, Nixon, and Trump weren't around during the Civil War or they would have been slavers.
     

Share This Page