Morrison says amending 18c will not create one job!

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by truthvigilante, Mar 2, 2017.

  1. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    While George Christensen and Corey Bernadi are screaming down the hallways of parliament about amending 18c, this one statement says it all about Australia's directions from Morrison. Get your head out of your own behinds you guys and start acting on the things that matter and that is economic stability. Get beyond your own subjective emotional, silly little bigotry. It's time for our governments to focus on the collective things that matter and not silly shallow little things about being able to say whatever want that simply aim to divide. Let Anerica continue down that constructive path that has them heading down the steep decline into poverty, drugs, homelessness, crime and resentment.
    It certainly highlights the direction and path of destruction the likes of bernardi, Christensen, Hanson and Angry Anderson and his crew will take us down. Don't let these clowns divide but more importantly we should be united in our efforts to ensure our elected governments look after our future, which is entrenched in our economy and ensuring Australia collectively enjoys the fruits of what our country can give and not just the 1%, such as Rhinehart and forrester!
     
    Sushisnake likes this.
  2. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,376
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well said
     
  3. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Thanks....lol.
     
  4. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    As I suspected. Out of the people who have voted for Hanson 74% were fed up with major parties, which basically leaves 25% of those voting for her base their vote on her policies. Needless to say there is a drop in the polls for the One Nation party. It was always the case.
     
    Sushisnake likes this.
  5. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Yes those who vote for Bernardi, Christensen, Hanson and Angry Anderson are usually casting a protest vote, so makes sense for Bernadi to campaign on "protest" issues like 18c instead of more mainstream and ultimately much more important issues than jobs and the economy.
     
    Sushisnake likes this.
  6. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    And it gets better SW: Barnaby said: nobody invites me into their packing sheds to say "look sit down barnaby, we need to do something about the racial discrimination act" :roflol:! The amendment proposal to 18c is a political toy for the small minded politicians it seems. I'm so intrigued by where this is going.

    Bernardi spits the dummy because his team are clearly focussed on frying the bigger fish, rather then worry about some petty law that will let some wrist flappingly crazy nutjob call others names. Talk about LMFAO!
     
    Sushisnake likes this.
  7. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Bowerbird has a special name for Bernadi... it escapes me atm

     
  8. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ah well, just sit back and wait for their next move. I just wonder if he has anything else to address, it all seems beyond his capacity it seems...poor guy! Anyway!
     
    scarlet witch likes this.
  9. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Messages:
    11,481
    Likes Received:
    915
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    My Mrs refers to Hanson as "the grifter". When you look at how she's played the electoral system for her own financial benefit it makes sense. Wait until the dopes realise they've been had.
     
    Sallyally and Sushisnake like this.
  10. Sushisnake

    Sushisnake Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I honestly think most of them support and vote only for the nationalist, left wing economic policies the likes of One Nation and Jackie Lambie spruik. The people aren't really on board with the right wing nut job anti-Muslim/anti-poor people crud, but they grit their teeth and cop it because the major parties aren't offering any leftist economic policies at all. The Greens sort of do, but they lost ordinary people long ago by focusing too much on minority equality and not enough on economic equality. The Greens are actually proud of representing the professional, well heeled urban class instead of the working classes. Labor's starting to make the right kind of leftist noises, but only time will tell if they mean it or if it's just wind.

    The parties are convinced the people are on the right because they worked so hard to drag us there it still hasn't dawned on them they failed. You'd think Sanders then Trump, then all the protests all over the US, all the anti-austerity marches in the EU, the election of Syriza in Greece and Podemos in Spain would have clued them in to the way the wind is blowing, but apparently not.
     
  11. slipperyfish

    slipperyfish Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,342
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    63

    In my opinion people tend to lean left when it doesn't affect them personally. That way the notion of 'Common Good' helps appease their desire to feel warm and fuzzy and allows for a nice little fix of community dopamine to get by on.

    BUT......

    Then when 'Common Good' hits home and they realise that they are going to have to sacrifice something personally to the 'common good' and that will cost them, they tend to take a quick step to the right.

    Ahhhh! Humans......Be better off without 'em.
     
    LeftRightLeft likes this.
  12. Sushisnake

    Sushisnake Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Completely disagree. Look at the following Bernie Sanders got just for showing up. Look at Podemos and Syriza. Look at history: the Civil Rights movement of the 60's didn’t happen because blacks were having a good time. The French and Russian Revolutions didn't happen because the people were content. The gains workers made between the end of the Great Depression and World War Two didn't come out of good times either. The people are docile and right wing when things are good, when there's every reason to protect the status quo. When it all turns to *****, they get angry and fight. Sure they can be distracted with right wing social cant to the point they parrot it, but more right wing, economic status quo is not what they're looking and asking for. Finding the right words to frame it and create solidarity is the tricky bit because without solidarity we're farked. Still, we've created solidarity before. Bernie Sanders, Syriza and Podemos created it again.

    I will agree that if you keep framing the debate in terms of the ordinary people having to sacrifice something for the common good you'll lose them. They've already had 30 years of tightening their belts, 30 years of falling real wages, 30 years of declining standards of living, 30 years of watching full employment disappear, workers rights and conditions get dismantled while progressive taxation was reversed, services were cut, prices rose as a direct result of privatisation, the rich just got richer and you want to tell all these people who have been the losers for 30 years that they have to sacrifice even more and then you wonder why they tell you to get lost and vote for Pauline? Maybe try framing the debate in terms of what they stand to gain for a change? I think we used to do that once, but now we've forgotten how. We've been twisted into people who are never for things, only against.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
    LeftRightLeft likes this.
  13. slipperyfish

    slipperyfish Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,342
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Bernie Sanders created a disjointed form of solidarity, mainly from young idealistic socialists born out of the left wing education system. He certainly didn't have solidarity where he needed it. Otherwise he may well of been President. Not only that, the deep distrust of Clinton really gave Democrats little choice but to sway Sanders way if they were to stay on their preferred side of politics.

    Using your view of political motivations that you have outlined above, humans must have to feel in complete desperation to lean left?

    If this is the case why do parties like One Nation, who are believed to be extreme right(something I do not necessarily agree with), garner such widespread support when times are perceived to be tough? The Nazi Party pre world war two is a more appropriate anomaly to your example. The rise of right wing parties through Europe right now is another anomaly to this reasoning. Mussolini in Italy pre WW2.

    I contend that when the *****, as you put it, hits the fan the populace look to an alternative to the established power at the time. Not necessarily driven by partisanship, but by perceived despair.

    My earlier post was my opinion of how I see it here in Australia, given the fact that Australia in general have never had to deal with the shear desperation of some of the examples you have given above. We may well have to in the future, hopefully long after I am gone.
     
  14. Sushisnake

    Sushisnake Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Parties like One Nation talk it up right wing socially, but economically they talk it up left wing: first and foremost they promise jobs. It doesn't get much lefter than promises of full employment. They also promise a fairer distribution of resources - again, classic left politics: it doesn't matter a damn who they label deserving and undeserving, the fairness thing is the key. They promised to rein in corporations and banks - leftist again.

    Trump did exactly the same thing: right wing social policy, left wing economic policy.

    And yes, things have to be pretty bad before the people lean to the left economically and things are pretty bad, though they are always left leaning aspirationally - that's what a fair go means.

    The right wing social policy speak gives them an outlet to vent their anger, pain and disappointment and let's face it, no one's giving them a leftist outlet to do the same venting here in Australia. The people couldn't care less about gay marriage - it doesn't put food on the table or their kids in uni or jobs - and that's the poor exuse for leftist discourse they've had rammed down their throats for years. That's it. The left have been AWOL presumed KIA.

    But it isn't the right wing social stuff that gets the people to mark that ballot paper. It's the left wing economic stuff. After all, the people are and always have been left leaning aspirationally. They believe in a fair go.

    Americans do too, but they call it freedom and that's why they voted for Trump.

    That's why I get a bit passionate when the people are labelled selfish or apathetic or bigotted. They're not. They want their country to be a better place tomorrow than it is today for everything and everybody they hold dear, but they and theirs are in trouble and no bustard politician has any genuine interest in leading them out of it. They just manipulate their fears for their own ends. They're like schizophrenics, these politicians: full on right wing social policy but left wing economic policy. The Monty Python gang would have a had a field day with modern politics.

    And just a hint: what Hanson says economically and what One Nation are actually voting for are two very different things, Fish. She's an opportunistic snake in the grass and this redheaded lady hates her for that. I couldn't care less what she says, but I care very much what she does when it comes to serving the workers she claims to represent. But we can talk about that another time/thread, mate.

    On the subject of the rise of Hitler, that's what you get when you have a dead left. In Hitler's case they were literally dead- he'd had them all killed. In the run up to the rise of fascism, Germany ( and lots of other places) could have jumped either way. Some did follow the soviets. The German people were very, very attracted to Uncle Joe and very wary of democracy. Much of Europe either still had functioning monarchs or had discarded them only recently, remember. Europeans were used to a bit of dictatorship.

    I suggest you have look at the rise of workers solidarity after the Great Depression and WW2. It was a seriously socialist - even communist- phenomenon as befitted it's time in history. In fact, that was the question put to the politicians and capitalists in countries like the UK, Australia and the US: either you make capitalism work for us too and share the income around, or you'll have no income because we'll follow the USSR and take the lot. The emergence of the New Deal in the US is the best known example but our left weren't slouches either.

    You're dead right we're at another crossroads where we could jump either left or right into fascism. I don't want to jump right, Fish. I don't like authoritarianism. We avoided it in the past because a strong, genuine left emerged and united the people. Change came from the bottom up. It was genuine grassroots stuff- the sort of thing the Greens have wet dreams about but no bloody idea how to accomplish. We need a strong, modern left to emerge again. We're better than fascism. We're better than the USSR or Chinese model, too. It wasn’t socialism anyway, it was state capitalism with authoritarian social control writ large.

    That's what I mean by a modern left. Capitalism's here to stay and that's not necessarily a bad thing . It can be the rising tide that lifts all boats. It certainly is throughout Asia and South America at the moment. But we need it to work for all of us again and it's going to be a hard slog to make that happen this time just like it was every other time.

    I suppose the reason I'm still fighting ( and will go down fighting) is because my son is only 27, he's been married a year, they're doing pretty well, are paying off a mortgage and want to start a family in two or three years. I'm fighting for them and my unborn grandchildren.

    Here's musical blast from the past for you:

     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  15. slipperyfish

    slipperyfish Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,342
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Good post.

    I have always been of the belief that a centrist government, left or right, is always the best possible scenario for everybody. Remember you can not please all the people all the time.

    Up here in QLD we are facing a very serious issue in the upcoming election. It is very possible that we may have a three way hung parliament. So two will need to join forces to form government. None of them have any idea. God help QLD.

    It is true the left and namely Labor have lost their identity. They are certainly not the party I had rammed down my throat by my Father all those years ago. To me they have become more like The Xenaphon Party, looking for headlines from a spineless media. I have no idea what Labor stand for now to be honest. The Liberals are no longer Liberals, they are Conservatives. There is a big difference. Poor old Malcolm in the Middle, he is a lonely figure. Loved by nobody. But why have we as voters abandoned the center? The Greens do not get where they have by accident. Abbott and his hoards of right wing religious nutters do not get there by accident. Why have we as voters abandoned the ever reliable center, in favour of all or nothing political agenda? We are voting this way. Is it because the masses have no real understanding of the political ideologies of the different factions from within each party? Or have we as a people become so focused on our own agenda that we are now unable to see the big picture of a broader society?

    Again good post, I enjoy good conversation without malice.
     
  16. Sushisnake

    Sushisnake Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    28

    Malice doesn’t get us anywhere when we all want the same thing: for Australia and the world to be a better place tomorrow than it is today. I've never met anyone who doesn’t want that, regardless of how they self-describe their politics.

    I'm in the centre on social policy but on the left economically. Mind you, if you look back at Australia's not too distant history of full employment, workers rights and entitlements, not to mention Medicare, subsidised education and income support, you could argue I'm really a centrist economically too! :)

    I don't think the people moved away from the centre, Fish, I think it moved away from us. It veered to the right big time. It left the people with nowhere to go. They could vote for the mob with the right wing, conservative, neoliberal economic agenda and the nasty mouth about poor people and foreigners, or they could vote for the mob with the right wing, conservative, neoliberal economic agenda and the nasty mouth about the intolerant bigoted working class, or they could vote for Labor who forgot their own name chasing a right wing base - same Labor who used the same nasty mouth about foreigners, poor people AND the intolerant, bigoted working class depending on whose vote they were courting at the time of the interview. Talk about schizophrenic! At least Labor are making the sort of noises that suggest they realise what destructive jerks they've been. We'll see if it's real or just idiot wind soon enough no doubt.

    Where are you in Queensland? I'm in Innisfail - Katter Country. A lot like Kingswood Country, but without the laughs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
    truthvigilante likes this.
  17. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    At the end of the day, both parties have been busy chasing the votes and forgot about governing. Voters are dragged here and there depending on what the mainstream media is trying to tell us all and the 2 major parties are trying to keep up with this devil they've created. Hanson and Bernardi are doing their best to jump on the gravy train of electoral relevance based on their extreme social views.

    All forms of bipartisanship went out the window when Abbott became opposition leader for mind. No one can tell me that there was anyone more partisan or oppositional then he, all at the detriment of politics in Australia. Abbott used boat people as his main leverage into political leadership. The media aren't playing with it now because politicians have taken it off the agenda and probably due to having a much more centrist leader for what it's worth. Someone with a little bit more humanity
     
    slipperyfish and Sushisnake like this.
  18. Sushisnake

    Sushisnake Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Yep. It sounds like I wasn't alone in my appall at where Abbott took our political discourse, TV, and that comforts me. Keating could be cutting, but he was witty rather than nasty. Abbott dragged us into the gutter. He was pure malice with a smirk on its face. He played to the worst in us. I wince every time I hear him described as a great opposition leader.

    If I were a praying woman I'd be asking for proof that the GFC, Sanders, Trump, protests in Europe, Syriza, Podemos- all of it- really have snapped politicians out of their crazy belief that politics is some sort of game and people's lives don't matter- only votes do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  19. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Well yeah, political leadership has certainly moved away from taking people on a journey of discovery with regards to policy to trying to appease as many constituents as possible who happen to sway with the wind of media influence. Unfortunately most people have no idea about the workings of systems therefore rely completely on quick media snippets to make a so called "informed judgement" these days and politians have tried to ride on the back of this destructive monster.

    I think populist politicking is shallow, lazy and self centred underneath. We employ polititians to do the hard yards and make the big decisions based on the resources available to them and take us on the journey.

    Polititians in Australia seem to want to surround themselves with campaign managers rather than policy makers and thinkers!

    They employ lots of dirt diggers as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
    Sushisnake likes this.
  20. Sushisnake

    Sushisnake Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    28
    " I think populist politicking is shallow, lazy and self centred underneath. We employ polititians to do the hard yards and make the big decisions based on the resources available to them and take us on the journey".
    Beautifully said.
     
    truthvigilante likes this.
  21. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Messages:
    2,376
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In my honest opinion, both slippery and sushi are both right and wrong, the truth is there but it is over simplified. slippery is quite right in the attitudes of Australians.

    I won't talk about when I was P & C president and how most of the 200+ parents always wanted input into what happened at the school, always would complain about the books we bought fo the library, always had ideas for things like the school fete, but how many of the 200+ parents were willing to give up one Tuesday evening a month, miss Neighbours or Home and Away? 9

    We won't talk about the milk price scandal or Australia's reaction to it. Would we spend $4.60 for 3 litres of milk instead of $3? No way, yes the publicity did get the farmers a few cents more, but the farmers today are actually getting less per litre than we were 30 years ago. We don't mind paying $10 a litre for beer, some of us a $100+ for a litre of wine, but my God, a $1.50 a litre for milk, you have to be kidding.

    All the parties do the left right thing, especially this current rabble. A lot of it is just smoke and mirrors, well more like bull manure really. The other day I heard the fertiliser being spread by the PM.

    "We want to lower taxes, LOWER taxes," he said. "What do labor want, more taxes, MORE taxes"

    Of course that is true, and why? Because labor would provide more services, they would need more money. The coalition, however, would provide fewer services, more user pays, it's in their constitution.

    This is where we are at the moment in my opinion. We are driving along and notice the slightest tendency for the car to drift to one side, not pulling but if you let go of the wheel on a straight it ever so slightly drifts to one side. You start thinking about the tires, when they were changed, did you get a wheel alignment?

    You have tow choices, you can take it to a service centre and get it fixed now, or you can wait until your tires start to scrub out. By then you could have copped a fine, or worse got killed, one thing is for sure you have lost money, and probably shortened the life of most of your steering components as well as fatigued yourself for months of driving an unstable car.

    In my honest opinion, the car is actually started to pull to one side now!
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
    m2catter and truthvigilante like this.
  22. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,322
    Likes Received:
    456
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 outlawed discrimination based on race, color, religion or national origin in hotels, motels, restaurants, theaters, and all other public accommodations. Australia's Racial Discrimination Act still has similar provisions to ban racial discrimination even after Section 18C is repealed. Switching to the American model from the British-style race law that strictly prohibits racial slurs would not do much damage to Australia.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  23. slipperyfish

    slipperyfish Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,342
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    63
    You are right TV. I thought a bit about this last night and yes Abbott never ever got past his party " head kicker' tag. Took it from opposition leader, where it was politically useful, into the PM's job, where it wasn't useful.

    However what is worse? Leading into the political gutter, or following?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  24. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Personally and politically useful, not useful for the nation even in opposition, which I'm sure we agree on.

    Not sure what you are getting at with gutter comment! Or is that just another twist on the comment.
     
  25. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    With all due respect TT, I don't think many of us see American policy in too many areas as something to aspire to these days. You've come a long way but gee you had a long way to come on social issues.
     
    m2catter likes this.

Share This Page