Obama Once Again Shows the World Weakness: Says ISIS is "not islamic".

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Grokmaster, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    48,910
    Likes Received:
    9,641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No worries.

    There's a different word to describe it primarily because people in general are not willing to accept that Islam itself is the problem. There has to be some "other" to blame for it.
     
  2. edthecynic

    edthecynic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,530
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Probably the same way millions upon millions of people misunderstand the "Christianity" of money grubbing televangelists!!!
     
  3. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,826
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Jesus ass Grok, way to miss the damn point. I was trying to say that you were right that Islamist ideology is the problem. Now that's not good enough for you?
     
  4. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    48,910
    Likes Received:
    9,641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The beginning of the Qur'an is often cited as the more peaceful part because this is when Muhammad lived in Mecca, amongst Jews and Christians, and only had a few dozen followers. He had no strength or ability to force the religion, so he practiced tolerance. He later went to Medina and became very powerful and rich. That's when the teachings became a lot more violent.

    There's a concept in the Qur'an known as "abrogation", where if two scriptures contradict each other, the scripture that was revealed later on is to overrule the earlier one. The last book in the Qur'an to be revealed during Muhammad's prophetic career is Sura 9, which is arguably the most violent and oppressive Sura in the entire Qur'an, and abrogates almost all of the relatively peaceful and tolerant verses from the earlier books.
     
  5. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,826
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, the IslamISTS are actually oppressing the IslamICS for not being "hard-core" enough, so THEY see a difference.
     
  6. leekohler2

    leekohler2 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    10,163
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Do you all consider Westboro Baptist Church to be "Christian"?

    If not, then why would you hold Islam to a different standard?

    All religion blows IMO. But at least be consistent.
     
  7. PeppermintTwist

    PeppermintTwist Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2014
    Messages:
    16,704
    Likes Received:
    12,220
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, quite "unbelievable"...how efficeint right wing media is at erasing any modicum of common sense from thier subscribers. It's clear that you have no concept of how Hitler put together TheThird Reich's army of sadistic kilers or how the leaders of this group are using the same tactic.
     
  8. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    48,910
    Likes Received:
    9,641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Can you be specific?
     
  9. JP5

    JP5 Former Moderator Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    45,584
    Likes Received:
    278
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Are you speaking of the KKK? Christians have no problem at all with shunning them. They aren't even relevant anymore; never were really. That's because they have virtually no support from Christians and we sure as heck don't stay silent about our hate for that group. They are a bunch of losers who sit around and "hate" all day to make themselves somehow feel better due to their pitiful lives.... pretending they are somehow better than others.

    However, where are the Muslims who speak out against the extremist murderers hijacking their religion??? If they are simply afraid, I can understand that. But it also could mean that somewhere deep down, they support what the extremists are doing....at least in part. And that IS scary.
     
  10. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    48,910
    Likes Received:
    9,641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Of course, they see the "IslamICS" as luke-warm followers who are not obeying Muhammad's religion. Muhammad himself had contempt for those followers. It doesn't mean they are the true representation of Islam, however.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ~40 members, most of whom members of the Phelps family, comprised mainly of lawyers who make money suing people who take offense to the group.

    But yes, let's pretend that is somehow a valid analogy for the tens of milions of jihadist Muslims in the world today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I understand how little you understand about this topic and your desire to deflect to something a little more comfortable for your progressive indoctrination. Criticizing a minority group would make you feel "icky".
     
  11. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,826
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think it matters so much what the "true representation" of Islam is according to the Koran. What matters is what mainstream Islam actually believes. If mainstream Muslims don't believe in terrorism and Jihad against infidels, then that is what Islam is, regardless of the words of the Koran.

    Look at what the Old Testament tells Jews to do. Mainstream Jews do not kill people for working on Saturday, or any of the other numerous things the OT says to kill people for. So, maybe modern Jews aren't a "true representation" of Judaism. But that doesn't mean that they all are secretly ready to stone us all to death.
     
  12. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    47,224
    Likes Received:
    26,850
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    As a Muslim friend of mine in Turkey is fond of reminding non-Muslims, there is only one Islam. There is no "mainstream", "moderate" or "radical" Islam. The differences are primarily those that concern interpretation and adherence.

    Politics is why there is a different term, although I would agree with you that Islamists tend to be more radical than Muslims who aren't Islamists.
     
  13. edthecynic

    edthecynic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,530
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How about Giltin' Tilton?

    cv2_card30.jpg
     
  14. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    47,224
    Likes Received:
    26,850
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You do realize that you're confusing people with ideology when you say that?
     
  15. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    48,910
    Likes Received:
    9,641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The Old Testament's violence was not open-ended commands to wage war against unbelievers and to bring the whole world under their control by force. The violence in the OT was limited to specific tribes, at specific times, in specific places. Although it is true that Jewish Law has changed from the Law of Moses.

    There is also the idea in Islam that the Qur'an was never written - that is existed with God from the very beginning, and was delivered line by line to Muhammad and not a word has ever been changed. I believe most Christians and Jews view the Bible as the "inspired word of God", so there is not the same degree of literalism being employed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I figured a cartoon would be the extent of your contribution to the discussion.
     
  16. Cubed

    Cubed Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2012
    Messages:
    18,009
    Likes Received:
    4,980
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sure. But I'll always bet that the ones who don't get it right are the ones who believe that murdering people is the right course of action.

    Absolutely. Murder is wrong. Any who disagrees with that is twisting it. Christians in the dark ages were where Islam is now (chronologically). They had it wrong then, just like extremists have it wrong now.


    There are a lot of stories about him and the history, the majority of them conflicting. The Bible calls for a lot of crazy things that aren't supported by Christians today, yet it is still held as a central piece of the religion.

    I do know the difference, but didn't realize that those arguing against were differentiating. I will never defend radical religious extremists. I will always defend peaceful spirituality focused on one religion (be it islam or christianity or Crom)

    Just because you didn't like the explanation,doesn't mean it isn't one.

    The same reasons some Christians support gay marriage, and some don't. Religion is probably one of the most interpreted things out there. Everyone has an idea of how a follower should act, and because it is something that people hold so dearly to their hearts, getting them to change or interpret it another way is extremely difficult.
     
  17. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    153,055
    Likes Received:
    64,641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    defined them pretty well

    "ISIL is not 'Islamic.' No religion condones the killing of innocents, and the vast majority of ISIL's victims have been Muslim. And ISIL is certainly not a state; it was formerly al Qaeda's affiliate in Iraq and has taken advantage of sectarian strife and Syria's civil war to gain territory on both sides of the Iraq-Syrian border. It is recognized by no government nor by the people it subjugates."
     
  18. vino909

    vino909 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Messages:
    4,634
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Our Community Organizer-In-Chief has no sense of reality, cannot tell the truth and is minus a set of testicles.
     
  19. Piscivorous

    Piscivorous New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    11,854
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Islamic religion is the problem. The ones that adhere to the Quran to the letter kill people. The so-called moderates who don't adhere strictly let it happen.
     
  20. Piscivorous

    Piscivorous New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    11,854
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The greater shame is admitting there is a problem and doing nothing to stop it.
     
  21. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    48,910
    Likes Received:
    9,641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Muslims in most areas of the West are greatly outnumbered and cannot do much to terrorize the unbelievers as Muhammad commanded them to do (even though Muslims have still accounted for a disproportionately high amount of terrorist attacks in the West, unsurprisingly). As their numbers in society climb, they become more honest about this goal. It's called "taqiyya". They are allowed to lie to you in order to advance Islam. That's how they claim "Islam means peace".

    That's not to say that these Muslims you work with necessarily think this way (varying degrees of adherence in every belief system), but they might. You'd never hear about it.
     
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    153,055
    Likes Received:
    64,641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    fact is, Obama is smarter than many republicans... you don't get help from Muslim allies if you say this is a war against Muslims
     
  23. domer76

    domer76 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3,379
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Westboro Baptist Church is Christian, isn't it?
     
  24. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,453
    Trophy Points:
    113
    These ISIL clowns are no more or less representative of Islam than the Jim Jones or David Koresh or the Medici and Borgia popes et.al. were of christianity.

    Couching political ideology in religious terms has been a characteristic of all religions at more than one time or other, but that does not mean that those espousing such garbage are in anyway representative.

    There is no religious rationale for the barbaric behaviours and wonton criminality demonstrated by ISIL. In fact, the qu'ran expressly forbids it.
     
  25. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    48,910
    Likes Received:
    9,641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Prove it.
     

Share This Page