One of my technicians just died of Covid

Do you have another job opportunity? What are you going to do if you can't find an employer willing to accept unvaccinated employees?

Why do you think Golem doesn't have employees? Why would somebody make that up? I'm not saying that he's not, but I also have no reason to believe he is. He's mentioned that he's a manager in other posts and he's posted extensively about his hard boundary relative to COVID vaccinations.

 

There is no need for apologies. I need to go back a bit to fill in the gaps.

 

Yes.

I'm very pleased to live in a political culture where people like Trump are firmly on the fringe. We have a ton of mediocrities, but no one as malevolent or manifestly unsuited to high office as Trump gets the top job.

Our system compels the major parties to contest the middle ground, which means that the sort of fanatical cult that has taken over the GOP has no chance of getting significant power. It would be the kiss of death to even entertain the idea. I'm good with that.

 

OK. I'm up to speed now. I don't know of any back stories between all these players but it comes across as some type of animosity *bigger* than this specific issue. I could be wrong. I usually steer clear of those type of posts because they are largely counterproductive.

What I find the most curious, though, is the general idea of skepticism surrounding this type of information. What I mean is...

* given the low percentage of US Americans vaccinated,
* the Delta and Lambda variants,
* their varying impacts on vaxxed versus unvaxxed people,
* a critical shortage of healthcare workers
* and most schools officially opening for in-classroom classes

....all concentrated within a 1-2 month window, doesn't on its surface, scream impossible for someone to know 2+ people with COVID or hospitalizations or deaths.

From that subset (X% fully vaccinated AND Y% at least partially vaccinated) the probability of contracting the virus and spreading it will be higher simply because the vaccination is said to lower the risk of severe COVID and long COVID so it could easily travel within/outside this group without anyone developing enough symptoms to require medical care or even know they have it.

Thus, taking the same number of people (whatever that number is in Golem's workplace) who are comprised of

A% fully vaccinated
B% partially vaccinated
C% unvaccinated

the probability of catching the virus and transmitting it would be more noticeable because the unvaccinated person is more likely to more severe COVID and potentially long COVID.

Add in...when this subset (Golem's employees) leave the workplace the risk of exposure and transmission increases based on the number of people in close contact so it only follows that someone within the same household would be at HIGHER risk than someone one would only encounter in public (ie. grocery store, post office, wherever).

-----------------------

Outside all the number crunching is a psychological component at play.

The brain is calibrated for self-preservation (self protection). This is why some people seem to be oblivious to things right in front of them. Their mind will subconsciously block out anything it can't handle. [This is why so many people think ignoring a problem will make it go away].

However, when we are facing an IMMEDIATE and potentially fatal threat, our body goes into a fight-or-flight response. The adrenaline release is designed to help us stay to fight or escape in flight. The repeated release of adrenaline can eventually have a negative effect on the other body systems because the body is not designed to be in a constant state of fight or flight. This is usually the pre-cursor to PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder).

If you apply that overlay to our current place in the virus mutations, it becomes much clearer why it's easier (translated by the mind as "safe") to deny or outright reject information that is simply too overwhelming to process. It's a built-in defense mechanism. And, what happens when we feel defensive? We push the pain away by any means available. I don't say that to excuse of justify the accusation or the accuser(s) but simply to point out that it *most likely* is NOT personal.

I hope some of that made sense.

I hope you stay well and don't let it get you down. All of us aren't calibrated the same way. The only reason I can stay calm most times is because I have PTSD myself. It sends me on auto-pilot so I can function in a crisis. That's how I learned to survive two very abusive parents and as a police officer. The way I see it, we all have grow a little bit stronger every time we get up when we fall.

 

Double like.

 

I think Trump may be less fringe than we originally suspected. He has quite the following for someone so horribly awful in so many ways.

The only thing I've been able to definitively pinpoint about Republicans and Democrats is THEY WILL ALWAYS (AND ONLY) AGREE TO KEEP ANY OTHER PARTY FROM GETTING A SEAT AT THE TABLE.

 

Oh, Trump is most definitely mainstream in the US now. That is what depresses me.

We have similar figures in Australia. The best they ever achieve is a handful of seats in Parliament. They might get to influence legislation here & there, but they never get actual power. Our system doesn't necessarily produce stellar leaders, but it does keep the worst of the sewage in the cesspit. In the US the cesspit has taken over half the political system.

 

Dont be so judgmental of the progressive Democrats....

Actually....the fact you can only see it in "half" just proves your partisan bias. It's not like Democrats are doing a fine job bud, not at all. But, you can't see that...choose to NOT see that...

Much like the lefties here, who call for and celebrate the death of Republicans....see that @ I sent you today? What a reprehensible post, your silence was deafening...


Any time I see it, I will @ you, just to see how ungenuine your condemnations are.

 

Ah yes, the depseration of the 'both sides' fallacy. The Republican party is now the property of Donald Trump & his cult members. Any doubt about that has been completely erased by events post-election. A handful of figures have overtly opposed him, but they are few & most are under threat of being primaried out of their seats. Watching even senior GOPers all but lick Trump's boots is the sort of spectacle that should disgust & scare anyone not deep in the Trump cult. Of course, the sort of people who think it is Presidenial to mock the disabled, war heroes & gold star parents are unlikley to be troubled by this.

The cesspit has taken over the GOP.

If you have convinced yourself that somehow the worst parts of the Dem progressive wing have 'taken over' the party then once again that is all about you. If you are after an equivalent to Trump running the GOP it is Ilhan Omar running the Dems. She doesn't. Not even close. Neither do any other memebrs of the squad, Bernie or Elizabeth Warren. Instead they have a President & VP who progressives view with suspicion or outright dislike. When it came time for progressives to rise up & take over the party like Trumpers did the GOP they folded like a cheap suit. Do they have influence? Sure. Do they run the party? Only in the most delusional right wing fever dreams.

OK, so this is another of those 'don't judge others by tour own low standards' moments. I can see how a Trump supporter might think it normal for someone to come running when a person with a record of appalling attacks on others calls them. Its what Trumpers do. I don't. So, expecting me to come just because you call won't work. I have never posted in that thread and have maybe visited it once. You demanding my presence there isn't going to change that.

If you decide this is some 'victory' the so be it. Says lots about you & nothing about me.

 

Not ONE person who died, but 3 or more seems unlikely.

 

Alright then. So you know 4 people in your county who died. Would that be considered unusual in your county?

 

All I hear is self righteous justifications for hypocrisy and reasons to look outwards with the pointing finger of self appointed judge, instead of mowing your own yard.

But as a non American, your opinion is that of an outsider.

 

I guess we can be Aholes who burn in hell forever, for doubting it. But the odds are astronomical.....So, there is that...

 

About the response I expected. The truth is hard to respond to.

 

Ditto.
There is my "truth" and your "truth" and somewhere in between is the real truth....but you would never admit as much...so absolutely certain you are correct in all of your assertations....oh 'venerable' one.

 

You are not understanding statistics! You are acting like if one person knows 2 people that died, no one else would know those same two people. It does not work like that. Take for example the husband and wife that died. They had many friends, they also had children who also have children. Everyone one of them would then know at least two people who died

 

LOL no they are not!
Take this couple:
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/19040798.eastleigh-couple-die-just-11-days-apart-covid-19/

Do you really think that everyone who knew them did not know anyone else that died from covid? This is basic logic that goes above your head

 

I just googled "husband and wife both die of covid" I got quite a few results but ALL that I saw were elderly. It just defies the odds.

Not saying it can't be, just that's it very unlikely.

 

Like I said, the rare cases are ELDERLY

This is basic logic that goes above your head

 

You said it was astronomical. And the claim was "To know 3 people of the 600 thousand dead in a country with 300 million people seems pretty unlikely." and "Not ONE person who died, but 3 or more seems unlikely.". Nothing to do with age

And just on page 1 of my search there is this:
Martin and Trina Daniel, 53 and 49 years old, respectively, are survived by their two teenage children, 18-year-old Miles and 15-year-old Marina, both of whom were also infected with Covid-19.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...nvaccinated-couple-death-family-b1904207.html

 

LOL at your back tracking. You said it was astronomical. You clearly have no knowledge of the use of statistics. And no, they are not all elderley

 

This man was 40, the wife ostensibly similar?

You found one example, like I said. I wont say it can't be, just HIGHLY and incredulously UNLIKELY.

 

LOL at more back tracking!

 

Exactly. It grants people the right to be secure from those who could infect them with Covid because they refuse to get vaccinated or wear a mask!

Thanks for proving my point.

Your problem is that you don't understand "rights". You see.... everybody's personal right ends where the other person's begin. And if there is any conflict between the right to act irresponsibly and the right to life of others, the right to live prevails.

It's not only very simple, it's absolutely obvious. I know there are people in religious cults that are persuaded of something different. But it should be obvious to anybody who is not in a cult.

 

Especially intermingling it with faith to a political figure.