Part 11 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Jan 23, 2014.

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  1. GraspingforPeace

    GraspingforPeace Well-Known Member

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    Absence of evidence when evidence should be present is evidence of absence.
     
  2. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    No again you are wrong in what you are believing. I'm not here to make claims. Didn't you read the first post on this thread, I have doubts you did or you misunderstood them if you did, I specifically said,

    "Part 11 is a continuation of Post your tough questions pertaining to God/Jesus/Holy Bible and I will do my best to clarify and make sense of it to those who are unaware...I still have questions unanswered in Part 5, 6, 7, 8 , 9 & 10.

    Also I might answer questions that are on other members threads and so this will keep me real busy with the many questions that I will answer from my point of view/perspective keeping in line with Scripture.

    I don't want my intentions to come across as converting you or whatever lol... but rather clear up things etc... so ask away."

    So I don't see anywhere where I said I was going to make claims and not back them up and basically that I would just tout my opinion and beliefs, but be either too afraid or too lazy to actually justify them.

    Is that how you understood my first post to mean to you?...geez talk about the condition called misinterprelitus, you got a serious condition right now.
     
  3. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Got it and at the same time;
    There have been cases of reversal with respect to works that were on the Index, such as those of Nicolaus Copernicus and Galileo Galilei: "The Inquisition's ban on reprinting Galileo's works was lifted in 1718 when permission was granted to publish an edition of his works (excluding the condemned Dialogue) in Florence. In 1741 Pope Benedict XIV authorized the publication of an edition of Galileo's complete scientific works which included a mildly censored version of the Dialogue. In 1758 the general prohibition against works advocating heliocentrism was removed from the Index of prohibited books, although the specific ban on uncensored versions of the Dialogue and Copernicus's De Revolutionibus remained. All traces of official opposition to heliocentrism by the church disappeared in 1835 when these works were finally dropped from the Index.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_authors_and_works_on_the_Index_Librorum_Prohibitorum
    Today many of those banned books can be found in secular public libraries including in some Catholic schools properly label as fiction, tales etc. Just like the book De Vinci Code is not recognize as an official story of the church but a fiction.

    Now the secular sector have their own equivalent of Librorum Prohibitorum they call it Board of Censorship or Ratings they rate books, video games, movies, TV shows, songs etc.In fact the agency have banned certain books such as "Mein Kampf".
     
  4. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    The Bible mention no babies only wicked men (adults) this would probably mean that the world was so evil that they have stop making babies?

    That is why God instructed Moses to write everything so that future people may know.

    Rubbish? I guess that can be your answer still it will not change the fact that the church only ban books that are not in conformity with facts and reality just like any secular government can ban any books of such nature such as Hitler's "Mein Kampf".

    Secular government equivalent of Librorum Prohibitorum is Board of Censors.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So far I have seen none only contradictions and hypocrisy.
     
  5. GraspingforPeace

    GraspingforPeace Well-Known Member

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    I don't care what your first post says. Making claims that aren't backed up is what you have consistently been doing.
     
  6. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Well said Inc! You heard that Gift?...perhaps your interpretation is faulty. "ludicrous" is a perception you hold and amounts to nothing more than your private and personal opinion... which don't really amount to much of anything.

    I like to add that this "faulty interpretation" is in essence a form of denial of the true interpretation.
     
  7. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Again it's an interpretation problem in Scripture. It's obvious you are referring to the verses in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 and so let me bring up those verses quoted from the KJV bible.

    "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."---1 Cor. 14:34-35 KJV

    Below is a summary and conclusion concerning these verses in Scripture. Basically it is saying that the verses were not a declaration from Paul, he is just quoting a saying from the Oral Law of the Jews that prohibited women from speaking in the synagogue. So these verses are not to be interpreted as inspired.

    If you want to read the entire article below is the link.

    http://godswordtowomen.org/Preato2.htm

    Summary of the Evidence Favoring the Quotation View

    A substantial body of internal and external evidence exists to conclude that verses 34-35 could not have been authored by Paul. Internally, there is not one verse in the Old Testament that Paul could quote to support such a declaration. Nor is Paul alluding to any general Genesis passage to support a view opposite from his stated declaration in 1 Corinthians that women can pray and prophesy in church.

    As previously discussed, Paul is quite specific when referring to the Old Testament to prove his point. The extensive, eternal evidence points to the fact that Paul is quoting a saying from the Oral Law of the Jews that prohibited women from speaking in the synagogue.

    Oral Jewish laws do not constitute Scripture and are not authoritative for the body of Christ. Scholars also point out that Paul never appeals to the "law" as guidance for the Christian Church. Scripture tells us that God calls and uses anyone to minister regardless of gender. Paul has just finished telling the Corinthians that women can pray and prophesy in church. In verse 36, Paul corrects the Judaizers' error. Therefore, interpreting verses 34-35 as a quotation with an immediate rebuke remains a contextually viable and the preferred option.

    CONCLUSION

    Verses 34-35 do not prohibit women from speaking in the church in either pulpit ministry, teaching, preaching, praying, prophesying, or any other speaking function. These verses represent a quotation, which is the most plausible and correct interpretation.

    Paul is quoting a saying from the Oral Law of the Jews which is not intended to be understood as the writer's original declaration. The evidence is compelling, diverse, and objective. This view also allows for the natural flow of thought to remain uninterrupted with verses "34-35" noted as a quotation and a rebuke beginning in verse 36.

    Paul also has no need to specifically address women as the only cause of "interrupting the service" as some scholars suggest. Paul's conclusion in verse 40 is more than adequate to tell the Corinthians that both men and women must be careful to minister in the gifts of the Spirit in an orderly fashion.

    The focus of Chapter 14 is on the proper use of spiritual gifts, tongues and prophecy. Paul's closing exhortation, beginning in verse 39, is a fitting conclusion: Therefore, my brothers and sisters, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. But let all things be done properly and in an orderly manner.
     
  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mitt: The majority of Christianity (Orthodox and Catholic) does not accept Sola Fide doctrine (salvation by faith alone). Do you think it is because Jesus said nothing about works ? Come on ... please stop and think for a moment.

    Here we have a man asking Jesus "directly" what he needs to do to obtain eternal life. No where does Jesus mention "believe in me and you will be saved". Jesus tells him to do good works= obey the commandments.

    Matt 5 - Sermon on the mount
    Again Jesus is talking directly about what it takes to get into the kingdom of heaven ... nowhere is "faith" mentioned. Works are mentioned.


    Matt 25 Parable of the sheep and goats.
    Here we have Jesus describing judgement day. Jesus is separating the ones who will receive eternal life and those who will not.

    Notice that he does so on the basis of works. It is not even necessary to know Jesus to get in ... just to do good.
     
  9. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    God does not dictate that we should abort babies that are born out of wedlock. There is no such commandment in Scripture.

    Obviously you must have misinterpreted something you read in Scripture.

    If that is the case please bring it forth and let us examine it, or I should say let me examine it and give you the appropriate interpretation.
     
  10. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I think that if there is a tough question to ask Christian's it is the question of the concept of Eternal Life.

    Now...back when Ancient Man wrote what would eventually become the Old Testament and the ancient men of the Roman Christian Biblical Canon that CREATED the New Testament....as it was in fact MEN appointed by the Roman Emperor who over hundreds of years picked and chose exactly which Gospels and which books would be included in the New Testament and many Gospels and Books were rejected and some such as Revelation were REJECTED SEVERAL TIMES and finally Revelations made it and was selected by MEN to be added into the New Testament and even then it still took an ADDITIONAL 23 YEARS FOR REVELATION to be added into the New Testament as many in the Christian Church thought the addition of Revelation was a HUGE MISTAKE as they thought that Revelation was ridiculous and to violent a concept to be added into the New Testament.

    But anyways....the concepts of ETERNAL LIFE is what I would like to talk about.

    Now although we do not as yet have PROOF...at least such proof made PUBLIC....as because what it is that I actually do allows me to know a great deal more about some realities that are NOT currently admitted to....but regardless....Probability dictates that our Universe is filled with LIFE and as well a great many Species of Intelligent Life exist as well just in our own Galaxy never mind in all the Trillions upon Trillions of Galaxies each one having Hundreds of Billions of Stars and Trillions of Planets orbiting them.

    Now ancient man in their very limited understanding of the Universe thought about ETERNAL LIFE in a literal manner...that being that either when a person died...or for some believers at the time of Judgement Day....and that belief was added in because of Revelation...a concept that even the Roman Christian Biblical Canon REFUSED to allow to be included into the New Testament several times until it finally was....ancient man believed that after a person died and if GOD judged then worthy....they would be admitted into Heaven and Heaven in the Bible is depicted as a HUMAN PARADISE....and the Bible is VERY SPECIFIC as to how Heaven would be a paradise and a pleasure SPECIFIC TO HOW A HUMAN BODY PERCEIVES PLEASURE.

    Now here is the problem with that...I personally believe in some form of Spirituality as I have experienced SOMETHING TANGIBLE....that I can neither deny or chalk up to my mind playing tricks on me as if there is one thing I know my mind is not subject to such tricks or thought that would lead my mind to exaggerate a sensory reality.

    But from that experience I also KNOW that if I am correct and their is a form of Spirituality after death a Human Spirit NO LONGER HAS CONCERNS OF THE PHYSICAL BODY!

    Why would it of course as a Human Spirit would consist of Pure Consciousness and since Thoughts or Consciousness has always been detectable by electric impulses within the brain there are two possibilities of how a Spirit exists....either a Human Spirit draws electrical energy from it's surroundings and such a thing has been documented by Paranormal investigators as batteries of flashlights and batteries of digital cameras and digital sound recorders are drained as well as the ambient temps. of the air drop when supposedly a spirit is in the room........OR.....the Human Brain which is what creates sentience or consciousness creates a spirit or soul which is more than the sum of it's parts and another form of unknown Spiritual Energy allows or powers a Human Soul or Spirit...and believe me I would NOT even be talking about this if I had not had the experience I did.

    But because of that experience I now UNDERSTAND....such things as Mansions in the Sky and Heavenly rewards that are described in the Bible and talked about by Christians are things that WOULD ONLY BE SPECIFIC OR ENJOYED BY A LIVING HUMAN BODY.....a Spirit has no concerns of the Flesh.

    And along with this bit of experienced knowledge I also understand that because of something else I am very much aware of but cannot share this information....the IDIOCY of those who believe that a GOD made Man in HIS Image is so LAUGHABLE....I really wish I was allowed to explain this in more detail but I can't as I have already been called twice about this issue and do not wish a third call.

    The FACTS are that if a GOD existed such a GOD would CERTAINLY NOT have anything like a HUMAN BODY unless such a GOD decided to appear in such a form.

    Human's are the product of BILLIONS of years of Cross Species Evolution and EVERYTHING we are right down an an Atomic and Molecular Level is specific to being a result of Evolution and if we were missing anything within our DNA and RNA as much of the Human Genome is Viral Encoding and our Human Genome as we have mapped it completely shows how Human's evolved from many different previous species and is a map that allows us to trace of evolutionary development all the way back to that original Single Celled Life Form that all life on Earth evolved from.

    This shows us that anatomically every part of us all the way down past a cellular level...past a Genetic Level all the way down to a Atomic Level.....shows us we are EVOLVED TO EXIST ON EARTH.

    If Humanity evolved on a different Planet with different Gravity and Different Atmospheric concentrations of Gases...Humans would be completely different.

    That shows us just how SILLY it is for anyone to think GOD looked like a Human and created us to look like HIM....and besides a GOD cannot be called a HIM or HER.....IT....would be a better word.

    AboveAlpha
     
  11. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mein Kampf is not banned in the UK or Canada as far are I am aware. Our Board of Censorship deals mainly with films, video games etc.


    I am aware that medieval books were finally 'de-listed', but the fact remains that the CC can list other books today and tell its followers not to read them, though it obviously cannot stop them being printed.
     
  12. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    You are misinterpreting this passage. When reading Scripture there is usually a hidden message that you need to extract out of it especially Scripture that comes from Jesus.

    In this passage Jesus was testing this young man. It was obvious to Jesus that this young man lied when he said he had obeyed all the commandments. For nobody does that. Remember...we are all sinners! And only God is good.

    So Jesus tested him further after this young man said he obeyed all the commandments Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

    But when the young man heard this, he went away sad, for he had many possessions.

    Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is very hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I’ll say it again—it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!”

    The disciples were astounded. “Then who in the world can be saved?” they asked.

    Jesus looked at them intently and said, “Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But with God everything is possible.” ---Matt. 19:21-26 NLT

    All Jesus wanted was for that young man to acknowledge that he was a sinner but because he didn't acknowledge it, Jesus tested him further by telling him to give up all his wealth. Jesus knew the young man wouldn't do that, because the young man's wealth was his pride. The young man's pride was more important to him then coming to the Lord.

    And so this young man failed the test, if he had said to Jesus ok I will give up my wealth and follow you, Jesus would have probably told him no that's ok. I don't want anything from you. I just want you to come to the Lord, you can keep your wealth.

    And that's why Jesus said it is humanly impossible for us humans to be saved. Only with God is it possible to be saved.

    It is possible by the grace He gives us through our faith in Him. We are not saved through our works, the law cannot save us because we are incapable of keeping it. Such as this passage here when right off the bat the young man lied to Jesus telling him that he kept all the commandments.

    In this passage the young man's pride was his wealth that was keeping him from coming to the Lord, for others it might be something else that is keeping them from coming to the Lord. Some people it's their sexual immorality, others could be their addiction to drugs, etc.

    So the way we are saved is to confess/repent our sins, ask for forgiveness of them and accept Jesus Christ as our Lord Savior! And therefore, salvation is by grace through faith.
     
  13. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Each country has their own Censorship standard and regulations unlike the Catholic church the church has no enforcement abilities any penalties are spiritual or verbal notices. Secular Librorum Prohibitorum has heavy penalties that sometimes comes with imprisonment and fine Russia presently has this law against promoting homosexuality in print on in acts. The USA aside from the Censorship board they have other agencies that enforce censorship suchas promoting and distributing what the state consider hate materials, sexual explicit materials and in the 1950's-60's communist materials secular government have a more stringent Librorum Prohibitorum or Censorship standard than the Catholic church. Back then when the Catholic church introduce Librorum Prohibitorum the church was the only institution with proper background in education and understanding that is why if not all most secular government turn to for advice and endorsement in their day to dat decision making.

    The Catholic church just like any other agencies can in their own standard ban or approve what they sell or promote. Mein Kampf is not a ban book legally in Canada but most major retail and wholesale outlets have chose to ban it from their stores and distribution outlets.
     
  14. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Facts will get you no where. There is no faith in facts.
     
  15. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    You claim '..to clear up things etc....'

    If you can't back up what you're saying, then you certainly aren't clearing anything up. So that may be where the misinterpretitus is coming from. Remove the claim you will 'clear things up' and you'll be more accurate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Precisely why people here have asked you to stop it.
     
  16. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    So now the bible is not the 100% inspired word of God. Your belief is that it is 100% inspired inerrant word of God.
    We have to interpret those that are and those that aren't.
     
  17. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Since the dawn of time men were aware of God, god or gods archaeologist and science have all confirm this. The Holy Bible was compiled by chosen individuals that collected all documents and manuscripts that were written centuries before the birth of the Roman empire the Old Testament and during the Roman empire the New Testament. The NT would not have been in existence if it wasn't for Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ taught none violence. No Mistake was made the peaceful or none violence teachings of Christ was adapted by early Christians and many of them will sacrifice themselves without lifting a single sword of defience against Rome as they all were send to their death for refusing to worship Caesar.

    So far no life has been discover yet.

    Even with the total lack of university education ancient men knew already the existence of God and life after death or ETERNAL LIFE. Eternal Life has always been part of the OT and NT in fact it was because of Jesus Christ that many ancient concept about eternal life was fully understood that Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Light.

    Only humans seems to have this special soul or spirit that is not found on other none human life forms.

    A spirit will have concern over eternal life of joy or pain. Pain not in a physical sense but pain in forever to wonder relentlessly like in twilight zone seeing and somehow feeling pain but can not do anything about it because of the absence of a body while eternal joy a spirit that has nothing to worry about the absence of a human body.

    If you will explain in a rational manner then you have nothing to worry about.

    Yes, God created us in His image mean with God's ability to create, with intelligence because God wants us to take charge of this universe. And yes God can appear to us in human form and the reason He chose to appear in human form because we are created in His image not in any other creatures.

    And what or who is this single life form? How about the rest of living things where did they all evolved from did all things evolved from one single source? Or were there several difference sources that each living thing evolved from?
    This shows us that anatomically every part of us all the way down past a cellular level...past a Genetic Level all the way down to a Atomic Level.....shows us we are EVOLVED TO EXIST ON EARTH.

    And we know humans did not evolved from other or different planets.

    Science claim humans evolved from apes do you believe that? Isn't that silly humans are apes and some how apes several human races evolved from which ape did each human race evolved from how come apes have stop evolving into humans? Modern science has now redefine the word "Ape" they no longer accept the early concept when it was first introduced to mean actual apes like monkeys or gorillas.

    Modern science has now tag and genetically coded and class every known living things according to their kind just like what the Bible said "created in their own kind"
    AboveAlpha[/QUOTE]
     
  18. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    can't stop the truth as long as lies and distortions are being spread I will be here. In fact, you seem to have stop that is good you are slowly posting some sensible materials but you still have some ways to go no worries I will be here to guide you.
     
  19. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You simply cannot seperate Judaism from Christianity, can you.

    Jewish children were not responsible for observing the commandments till the age of 13 - boys (Bar Mitzvah) - girls 12 Bat Mitzvah. Most would learn them and seek to understand what would be required of them at the age of majority.
    The rich young man, and we don't know how old he was or how he had gained his money, might well have kept the 10 commandments - for this is what Jesus was referring to. That he was not referring to the other 613 laws etc that had been added is obvious, for he himself rejects many of them.
    Jesus, the Jew, was speaking to the young man, who was a Jew, about Jewish commandments, and Jewish practises.
    The young man went away but we are not told it was out of pride. He went away because he was not willing to give up his possessions. Greed?rew

    The camel and the needles eye have several possible meanings and no one really knows. A hyperbole? A misprint in Greek 'Kamilos' against Kamelos 'Rope'? A misinterpretation in Aramaic of gamla 'camel' or 'rope' or 'rope made with camel hair.'?
    Quote. And so this young man failed the test, if he had said to Jesus ok I will give up my wealth and follow you, Jesus would have probably told him no that's ok. I don't want anything from you. I just want you to come to the Lord, you can keep your wealth.

    Supposition.

    'Coming to the Lord' is a Christian expression. At that time Jesus was not 'Lord'.

    In actuality this had nothing to do with Christianity. It was Jewish, under Jewish law and Jewish based. In Judaism wealth and riches are supposed to be blessings bestowed by God. So what Jesus was asking him was to give away what God had given him.

    If an itinerant preacher came by your town and asked you to give all your money away, would you? Would you walk away with him, or from him?
     
  20. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Again you are misinterpreting Scripture. First let me explain verses 17 and 18 and its significance. It is frequently argued that if Jesus did not "abolish" the law, then it must still be binding. Accordingly, such components as the Sabbath-day requirement must be operative still, along with perhaps numerous other elements of the Mosaic Law.

    This assumption is grounded in a misunderstanding of the words and intent of this passage. Christ did not suggest here that the binding nature of the law of Moses would remain forever in effect. Such a view would contradict everything we learn from the balance of the New Testament.

    In this passage Jesus is saying He came to fulfill the law in which He most certainly did. He fulfilled all the messianic prophecies which were more than 300 that foretold His coming (Luke 24:44). He fulfilled the demand of the law for perfect obedience by His sinless life (John 8:29, 46; 1 Peter 2:22). He fulfilled the purpose of the law, (Galatians 3:24-25).

    The Mosaic regime was never intended to be a permanent institution. The beneficial effects of the law, as designed by the Creator, will abide through the age; but not the law itself. Some have alleged that the law would continue in effect until the Second Coming of Christ but without biblical support.

    This fulfillment is the very thing Jesus declared He came to accomplish! Since He did accomplish it, the law was fulfilled, therefore, does not remain an obligatory system today.

    In my next post I will explain verses 19 and 20.
     
  21. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Here is a thorough explanation of verses 19 and 20 from the gotquestions website.

    Jesus' point in the Sermon on the Mount was that God sees the heart, and that we are actually held to a higher standard than external conformity to a set of rules. The Pharisees taught that, as long as you did the right things, you were "holy"

    Jesus said not so, "You must obey God’s commands better than the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law obey them. If you don’t, I promise you that you will never get into the kingdom of heaven."---Matthew 5:20 CEV

    Jesus is teaching the necessity of having a heart to follow God. Putting on an act and going through the motions of serving God is dishonest. It is also futile, because God sees through the masks we wear. In Mark 7:6-8 Scripture tells, Jesus replied, "You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,
    'These people honor me with their lips,
    but their hearts are far from me.
    Their worship is a farce,
    for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.' For you ignore God's law and substitute your own tradition."---Mark 7:6-8 NLT

    A person who pretends to be holy on the outside yet nurtures a sinful heart is a hypocrite The Pharisees, whom everyone thought were holy, were guilty of just such dissimulation. God doesn’t want more religious activity; He wants a heart dedicated to Him. Holiness starts on the inside.

    In Matthew 5:21-22, for example, Jesus says, “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment.” The external command was “do not murder.” This is a good command; we should not murder people. But we make a mistake if we think that’s where our responsibility ends. Jesus said, in essence, God sees your heart. If you have hatred in your heart, then you are just as guilty as the murderer in God’s eyes. The Pharisees’ attitude was, “I am good; I haven’t murdered anyone.” Jesus countered, “No, you are guilty because there is murder in your heart.”

    It’s the difference between the letter of the Law and the spirit behind it. Keeping the letter of the Law doesn’t make you righteous (see Galatians 2:16). None of us can keep the whole Law perfectly, anyway. God requires a heart transformation; we must be born again (John 3:7).

    God is looking for more than the external practice of religion. People might seem holy to other people, but that’s not the standard. Over and over, the Bible stresses purity of heart before the One who examines the heart (1 Chronicles 29:17; Psalm 24:4; 51:10; Matthew 5:8; 2 Timothy 2:22).

    The Law was good and proper. Its purpose was to define sin and delineate holiness. Jesus was not in any way negating the Law; He was showing us the reason for the Law. Jesus fulfilled the Law in that He was the only person to ever keep the whole Law, even in His heart, without sin (Hebrews 4:15).

    So I hope this thorough explanation helps you to clear up your misconception into what you believe Jesus was saying.

    For you seem to think He is stressing works gets a person into heaven, it goes far beyond that.

    http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-and-the-Law.html
     
  22. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Again you have a misinterpretation/misconception problem of correctly understanding what Scripture's message really is.

    Let me first respond to your statement, "Notice that he does so on the basis of works. It is not even necessary to know Jesus to get in ... just to do good"

    This is how people form misconceptions when reading the Bible, they take a certain passage out of Scripture, disregarding everything else and come up with their false interpretation on this one particular passage.

    Your statement that you made is half-correct. Let me explain, for people who have never heard of Jesus Christ, never heard His message or anything regarding Him, yes, for them it won't be necessary to know Him to get in.

    For God will justly and fairly judge these people based on what they did in their lives. And so it will be based on their works. What is in their hearts, how they treated other people etc.

    However, for the rests of the people, who have heard of Jesus, who have heard His message, who have heard of the salvation plan He brings, they will have to accept Him as their Lord Savior in order to be saved.

    If one reads the entire New Testament of the Holy Bible you will be made aware that there is a salvation plan for the people who accept Jesus as their Lord Savior. People who reject Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior will not be saved.

    So for a person who has done more good works than bad in their entire lives, who knows all about Jesus and what He represents but yet rejects Him as their Lord Savior, they will not be saved.

    It doesn't matter how much good works they did in their lives, not accepting Jesus as their Lord Savior will not get them into heaven. They will have to pay the penalty for their sins and be punished and forever be separated from God.

    All others who have repented/admitted their sins, ask for forgiveness of their sins, accept Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior, according to Scripture they will be saved.
     
  23. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Having faith does not mean one is free to sin to their hearts content and so it doesn't mean one has a license to sin. That wouldn't be true faith but shall we say dead faith. And having good works does not mean one doesn't have to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior.

    The only exception is for the people who have never heard of Jesus, for these people God will judge them on their works.
     
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Interesting. I would agree that there have been many changes over the years to various books of the Bible. Who knows what Paul actually said in reality.

    This does not change the fact that the Bible passage in question is in contradiction with the OT. It really does not matter whether or not Paul said it.
     
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are one that takes scripture and reinterprets anything that disagrees with your beliefs.
    Numbers 5:11-21
    The law of God commands an abortion in this passage.

    There are other passages though. God orders the killing of all women and Children in various towns the Israelites attack. Obviously some of these women would be pregnant which is equivalent to an abortion.
     
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