Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Jesus, himself, says he came to fulfill the Law
    Matthew 5:17-20
    English Standard Version

    Christ Came to Fulfill the Law
    17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

    Read full chapter
     
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  2. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Considering most of the early part of the Bible is simply made up, that's a remarkable post. If you look at most names over the years gone by, most have meanings. In the ancient Hebrew times you will find many men who had the names you quote.

    For Mitt
    The Hebrew word for Messiah is translated Anointed One. The anointed were Kings and High Priests. Why would a 'Messiah' be needed for the Hebrews. The Christian 'Messiah' is to take the place of the sinner through Adams fall and the idea of original sin. But Hebrews did/do not accept they were born in sin. They believed they were born pure and responsible for their own subsequent sins, and the need for personal repentance. Thus the Days of Awe (considering ones life and seeking atonement from those you've hurt) and Yom Kippur with Shabbut Shuva and the laying of sins on the goat sent into the wilderness. So why would any Hebrew accept the idea of a sin bearing Messiah and 'prophesy' about him. This was the practise at the time of Jesus and continued after his death until the Temple was destroyed. So why do Christians claim the OT, written by the Hebrews, refers to Jesus. This is only Christian interpretation.
     
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fulfilling the law is not affirming the entire OT .. A poor and false assumption on your part Brother Todd - we must try harder not to make rash and obviously false interpretation of scripture.

    Jesus doesn't even affirm OT Law .. never mind the whole OT -- There are many examples of Jesus breaking OT Law.
    Given this obvious fact ..the conundrum is resolved by changing the word "LAW" to commands .. and keeping the two separate. as this is the only thing that makes sense.
     
  4. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are we not suited to it and it to us. We didn't see it coming, yet it was suddenly upon us and we in it. So who's to say that because we cannot fathom with our senses, a God and heaven, that it cannot be, a life beyond this life, and worlds without end.

    We are suited to this world because we evolved in its environment. It didn't come upon us suddenly. We are not gods nor do we claim to be. We don't need a god to bring us into the world or to help us through life. If you need something to believe in to help you cope with life, so be it. That doesn't actually make it true to anyone but you.
     
  5. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    What kind of nonsense is this..."forget Christian teaching"? I'm a Christian and so I follow/adhere to Christian beliefs/doctrine, what am I supposed to do, make up my own personal stuff now? lol. How will that fly over with the masses? lol.

    But anyway, you told us you were a former Gospel preacher and so you should know that He is mentioned in the OT.

    But, I must consider the possibilities that maybe you weren't well versed in Scripture as well as not knowing the history of how the name Yeshua evolved into the name Jesus that we use today in English to refer to the Lord, the Messiah but despite your shortcomings your superiors gave you the job anyway not caring that you weren't qualified in being a Gospel preacher or perhaps you weren't telling us the truth about being a former Gospel preacher and so those possibilities would explain why you didn't know He is mentioned in the OT.

    So, I will answer this question of yours in two parts. The 1st part will explain how the name of Jesus came about explained by my favorite Christian Ministry that you respect so much and have high regard for trev and the 2nd part will be given by Arthur E. Glass who will illustrate that Lord Jesus is mentioned in the OT.

    And now the presentation from Arthur E. Glass:

    Ok thanks trev for your post, I hope you now understand that Lord Jesus is indeed mentioned in the OT after reading these thorough in-depth explanations.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2023
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  6. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fascinating brother Mitt
     
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  7. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Nice to see you Brother Todd! Yeah, it's really fascinating indeed! As always thanks for your input.

    Ok take care Brother Todd and God Bless!
     
  8. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mitt quote
    But anyway, you told us you were a former Gospel preacher and so you should know that He is mentioned in the OT.

    OK Mitt. Where? Not a mention of Jesus. Everything Christianity quotes is simply ITS interpretation of Hebrew scriptures. You simply ignore the fact that Hebrew scriptures do not mention a 'Messiah'. Their belief written in the OT is for an 'anointed one' to come and lead them. The 'anointed one' will be a special human capable of leading them to rule the world under Jahweh. He will be preceded by 'Elijah'. At family gatherings and special dinners a spare cup (Elijahs Cup) is filled in case Elijah should appear.

    I prefer to hear things 'straight from the horses mouth' not from a stable boy.

    You really have no idea yet you quote nonsense regarding the OT. That's why you ignore my questions to you for which you have no answer.
     
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  9. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Fwiw, In the Book of Mormon, Jesus Christ's name is mentioned about 550 years BC. As for Malachi, LDS history has it that during the restoration, God sent many exalted men(Angels) to Joseph Smith, to restore certain keys and authorities for the advancement of Gods work in the latter days. One of those exalted beings was Malachi, to restore the keys and authorities necessary for the sealing of families together, and to turn the hearts of the children to their ancestors and vice versa. That's why the Church is so into genealogical research, and the building of temples to perform ordinances for the dead, and the sealing of families, living and dead, together.
     
  10. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No surprise, seeing the source it came from.
     
  11. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    God or Joseph Smith? And do you know either of them?
     
  12. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Good point.
     
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  13. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As there is no god........
     
  14. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There's a gullible side to the American people. They can easily be misled. Religion is the best device to mislead them.. Micheal Moore
     
  15. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    There is no such fact that there is no God.
     
  16. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Equally there is no fact that there is a god except in people's minds.
     
  17. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    God is a person, not a thought. I told you "from the horses mouth" that Jesus name was prophesied in the BOM, 550 years BC. I also told you that Malachi has already come to Joseph Smith with the keys and authority to secure Gods people as families before the return of Jesus Christ. IOW, Gods work is in progress as it was prophesied in the Old Testament. You can call it all nonsense. But from my perspective, what you are doing is attempting to wish away the truth by looking elsewhere in your attempt to paint Jesus Christ as merely a Jewish preacher of a false religion, rather than the savior of mankind.
     
  18. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    The Book of Mormon was published in 1830. To say it relates a prophecy from 550 BC would be to assume that it is true. Without that assumption the "prophecy" is worthless.
     
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  19. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think your horse had a nightmare. Rather like Mohammed.
     
  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "God is a Person - Not a thought"

    What is your definition of "Personhood" ? and how did you come to know that God has all the characteristics on that list.

    Second .. support your claim that God is not a Thought ?

    Third ... what is the name of this God that I may know to whom I must Pray ... YHWH ? " I AM " ? and just what is that .. if not a thought ?

    " I AM" = Thought "I AM" = God Therefor (and there is some law for this that we all knew at one point) Thought = God
     
  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps .. but it is not just religion that is being used to mislead the American people.
     
  22. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Trevor was assuming the Bible is true(at least for the sake of argument) when he asked where in the OT Jesus was mentioned in prophecy. But you are free to dismiss the Bible and the Book of Mormon because they both testify of Jesus Christ. Nevertheless what you, I, or anyone says, thinks, or believes, isn't the definition of reality, or the authority and power to create that which isn't true.
     
  23. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    You may think and believe that there is no God. But you know that you don't actually know it. That question will always be there, fretting discovery.
     
  24. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Moore is a Catholic.
     
  25. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Read Matthew 4:23-25. Particularly 25. Then ask yourself how real the story is. Do you not understand how ridiculous it is. The story is set in a primitive age. No transport, no media, no cafes to provide meals, no superstores for provisions, no motels yet multitudes followed him. People from all over the country. Did they have transport? Were all these people unemployed that they could take time to spend days following? Did they not have families to provide for?Did Jesus have a microphone to make himself heard to the multitude? Or a recording device (see below)
    You have absolutely no idea of ancient times.

    And this 'sermon' was remembered in all its detail when the writer wrote is 5 decades after the death of Jesus?
    It was written by a Jewish scholar who was familiar with the details of Jewish OT teachings and laws. He takes many of the beatitudes from the Tanakh and uses teachings from it for the sermon.

    Jesus came to fulfil the Jewish Law which , that he had been taught was the Law of Moses. He tempered this with mercy. Not the law the Pharisees had added to down the 6 centuries it had been written
    You are so indoctrinated you cannot, or do not want to see, the real world of ancient times.
     

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