Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The Jesus character is supposed to be God's son and was there at the creation. So, who was his momma? He existed for eons and then got zapped into Mary's belly for a normal human birth. That is one heck of a fairytale. People like Mitt eat it up. He probably thinks Superman is real.
     
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  2. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've been through some of the articles and they are painful to watch. The Biblical Archaeology of the Christmas story tells us nothing we did not know, It doesn't prove the Biblical story of Jesus birth., One man interviewed quoted a Roman edict on stone that 'people should go home' for the census. Josephs home was in Nazareth - not Bethlehem. Another says the Bible tells us Jesus age. It doesn't. It only tells us he was about 30 years when he started his ministry. That goes along with the belief that a man reach his prime at the age of 30, and that priests could only practise from that age. Another says that 90 miles was not difficult for a woman to walk in those days. He's never been 9 months pregnant, understand the conditions of travelling in the 4 days it would take, nor does he know the Jewish custom regarding pregnant women and weaning mothers. They were absolved from any travel. He also says they had to do the journey 3 times a year - they didn't.

    Petrovich's interpretations have been discredited by other scholars.

    Noahs ark 3000- the True Story 3300ca. Absolute discredited as people have been in existence long before that. Aborigines in Australia for 50.000 years at least. 30,000 years ago men were drawing Therianthropes on cave walls which, over the millenia they turned into Egyptians, Roman and Greek gods. Sea fossils on mountain top are simply coastal areas that, on collision with another continent, have been lifted up into mountains. See Tectonic plates and continental drift - that's science for you.

    Heaven help us, I've spent enough time on this. Christians put their biased side of the coin. I seen the Christian side, and now look at the other side to compare. Try it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2023
  3. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's what I left 20+ years ago.
     
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  4. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And you really fell for what these people say? I spent nearly a morning on listening and reading on that website. Those I heard or read didn't even touch on things like the Nativity. Just the edges - shepherds, angels. wise men. The story and history of the Bethlehems, Nazareth. All known for many years by those who have studied.

    All irrelevant to the actual event. Shepherds were in the area as they always were. Angels and wise men are just extras thrown in to make it more 'authentic'. Margaret Mitchell wrote 'Gone with the Wind' using the background of the Civil War in the US. The Nativity story is written on the background of traditions of the time. Your site skimmed around the subject.

    Heat draws moisture from the oceans and any standing water. Ocean levels drop - imperceptibly. These tiny particles of water are drawn up until they reach cooler air above. They then gradually form into drops. These drops, when conditions are right, fall to the ground as rain, by gravity. Some is absorbed by the earth, the rest makes its way, by gravity force, down rivers and back to the ocean. That which falls into lakes etc rises until it reaches the height of the banks, and then overflows and makes it's way eventually to a river source and the ocean. The ocean imperceptibly rises. Of course, the ocean level actually stays more or less the same as it is a cyclical motion. Ocean to air. air/rain to earth and back to the ocean. Magma from volcanos is forced up by the pressure of the central Magma core. Water does not have that pressure and so does not rise. Geysers are hot water from further down in the earth and return to the core. Springs are water from hills and mountains, sometimes many miles away, following undeground courses until they find a place to surface.
    Let's suppose an underground lake did rise to the surface. That would mean there was a space beneath that had to be filled. Now that space can't be filled with air as water is heavier than air, and it can't remain a vacuum. Only two things can happen. The water immediately goes back down or the cave in which it was originally, collapses. In either case the level of the ocean above remains the same.

    Noahs flood did not happen.
     
  5. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    God's prophet Moses is believed to be the author of the first five books referred to as the Pentateuch in the Old Testament, except for the final summary of chapter 34 in the Book of Deuteronomy which is believed to be written by Joshua.

    Let me present that Chapter 34, titled "The Death of Moses".

    We Read in Scripture:

    The Death of Moses


    34 Then Moses went up to Mount Nebo from the plains of Moab and climbed Pisgah Peak, which is across from Jericho. And the Lord showed him the whole land, from Gilead as far as Dan; 2 all the land of Naphtali; the land of Ephraim and Manasseh; all the land of Judah, extending to the Mediterranean Sea[a]; 3 the Negev; the Jordan Valley with Jericho—the city of palms—as far as Zoar. 4 Then the Lord said to Moses, “This is the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob when I said, ‘I will give it to your descendants.’ I have now allowed you to see it with your own eyes, but you will not enter the land.”
    5 So Moses, the servant of the Lord, died there in the land of Moab, just as the Lord had said. 6 The Lord buried him in a valley near Beth-peor in Moab, but to this day no one knows the exact place. 7 Moses was 120 years old when he died, yet his eyesight was clear, and he was as strong as ever. 8 The people of Israel mourned for Moses on the plains of Moab for thirty days, until the customary period of mourning was over.
    9 Now Joshua son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom, for Moses had laid his hands on him. So the people of Israel obeyed him, doing just as the Lord had commanded Moses.
    10 There has never been another prophet in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face. 11 The Lord sent him to perform all the miraculous signs and wonders in the land of Egypt against Pharaoh, and all his servants, and his entire land. 12 With mighty power, Moses performed terrifying acts in the sight of all Israel. Deuteronomy 34:1-12 NLT

    Footnotes
    a. 34:2 Hebrew the western sea.
    b. 34:6 Hebrew He buried him; Samaritan Pentateuch and some Greek manuscripts read They buried him.

    Did you find reading this passage interesting Gawd? Well, I certainly did. As Scripture tells us, there has never been another prophet in Israel like Moses. The Lord sent him to perform all the miraculous signs and wonders in the land of Egypt against Pharaoh, and all his servants, and his entire land. With mighty power, Moses performed terrifying acts in the sight of all Israel...wow!..imagine witnessing all of this...simply awesome power!

    Conservative Bible scholars believe the Pentateuch were mostly written by God's prophet Moses. And again, Chapter 34 of Deuteronomy is believed to be written by Joshua, the successor of Moses.

    And there are many passages that attribute them to Moses or as being his words.

    We Read in Scripture:

    Remembering Israel’s Journey

    33 This is the route the Israelites followed as they marched out of Egypt under the leadership of Moses and Aaron. 2 At the Lord’s direction, Moses kept a written record of their progress. These are the stages of their march, identified by the different places where they stopped along the way. Numbers 33:1-2 NLT
    14 After the victory, the Lord instructed Moses, “Write this down on a scroll as a permanent reminder, and read it aloud to Joshua: I will erase the memory of Amalek from under heaven.” Exodus 17:14 NLT

    4 Then Moses carefully wrote down all the Lord’s instructions. Early the next morning Moses got up and built an altar at the foot of the mountain. He also set up twelve pillars, one for each of the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 Then he sent some of the young Israelite men to present burnt offerings and to sacrifice bulls as peace offerings to the Lord. 6 Moses drained half the blood from these animals into basins. The other half he splattered against the altar.
    7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it aloud to the people. Again they all responded, “We will do everything the Lord has commanded. We will obey.” Exodus 24:4-7 NLT

    So it's not hard to believe that Moses wrote the Pentateuch. And even if Joshua or some other person actually wrote the original manuscripts, the teaching and revelation can be traced from God through Moses.

    Furthermore, no matter who actually wrote the words that make up the five books of the Pentateuch, the author of those words was God through His prophet Moses, and the inspiration of these five books of the Bible is still true.

    Another point to consider is that Lord Jesus Himself refers to this section of the Old Testament as the "Law of Moses" which is one of the most important evidences for God's prophet Moses as being the author of the Pentateuch.

    We Read in Scripture:

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

    44 Then he said, “When I was with you before, I told you that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and in the Psalms must be fulfilled.” Luke 24:44 NLT

    Ok Gawd thanks for your post, it was a pleasure for me to respond to it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2023
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  6. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Well yes, in your religion of atheism it did not happen, however in the religion of Christianity it did happen.

    Ok thanks trev for your post, it was a pleasure for me to respond to it.
     
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  7. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's OK Mitt. You show yourself up everytime.
     
  8. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Another quote without any proof at all. Just belief. If the Bible said the Moon was made of green cheese you would believe it. If Moses did write it he wrote it in 4 different 'styles' that were not available in his time. Well done Moses.
     
  9. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The description of the hydrological cycle I gave was taken from the Bible.
     
  10. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Prove your story.

    If you study the teachings and life of Jesus against the OT you will find he practised and preached Judaism. His temptation was a picture story of the Jewish belief that HaSatan, created by god to test mens faith, actually tested Jesus. But not in this way. It is this story that caused Satan to become an enemy of Jahweh in Christian belief. The Baptism was a Jewish ritual with the Dove thrown in. His parables were taken from the OT and referred to the Hebrew relationship, as they saw it, with Jahweh. A few words here and there added by whoever wrote the gospels decades later to make Jesus a Messiah. The Mosaic law was written was written in the 7th century onward by scribes in Babylon. The Pentateuch is full of stories - not reality. It was written by different writers as shown by different emphasis on different subjects. It is full of holes when you study the History, archaeology etc of the times in which the characters are supposed to have existed. The Israelites were never in Egypt. There's no evidence whatever for it. Many people mix the Hebrews with the Hyksos who were earlier. They were a Levantine tribe, much the same as the Canaanite tribes like Israel. Their capital was Avaris and there you see signs of Canaanite culture. Statues and buildings which people claim are Israelite. They are not. Israel was always in Palestine. Merneptah records them as a settled tribe that he overcame when dealing with rebellious Canaanite tribes. Egypt ruled Palestine for centuries. No point in a Moses taking Israel there. Out of the fryingpan.......... Much of Hebrew culture and buildings are tinged with aspects of other cultures. The Temple. The Ark of the Covenant etc.
    That Jesus used the OT so much was that he had been brought up per Proverbs 22:6. From the age of 5 through to 13 he, and other children, learned first the Torah, and then the rest of the Tanakh. Like Christians and Moslems today he was indoctrinated. Like many Christians and Moslems today they just believe what they are told without question. If they question they are often 'out'.

    Now it's my bedtime.
     
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  11. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The Moses character was a master extortionist who forced people to support his gang of thugs by giving them their money and best food. He implemented the first filly-funded retirement plan to the benefit of his thugs, while everyone else had to work to the day their died.

    Comparing Moses and Jesus, Moses was by far the most powerful of the two. The Jesus character never did any significant miracles, probably because he "lived" in recent times and not ten thousand years ago when storytellers could get away with BS like that attributed to the Moses character. If the Jesus character was still wiggling on the cross a case could be made that he is real. But he is gone like a snowflake on the Sun.
     
  12. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Nope, sorry but again you're wrong trev. Sometimes I wonder if you were really telling the truth when you once told us that you knew the Bible very well...lol

    Like I said, it was 600,000 men and that was no guesstimation for it was written in Scripture. That's what they had when they initially left Egypt.

    We Read in Scripture:

    37 That night the people of Israel left Rameses and started for Succoth. There were about 600,000 men,[a] plus all the women and children. Exodus 12:37 NLT

    Footnotes
    12:37 Or fighting men; Hebrew reads men on foot.

    So, your statement, "In the first place, when Israel left Egypt they had 603,550 armed men for war if all of those men were living at the time "(Numbers 1:46). Is incorrect.

    But it is correct in that a year after Israel's departure from Egypt while in the wilderness of the Sinai desert, the Lord spoke to Moses and told him to record the names of all the warriors by their clans and families. That's where the verse you cite (Numbers 1:46) do you get the 603,550 fighting men who were 20 years old or older.

    We Read in Scripture:

    Registration of Israel’s Troops


    1 A year after Israel’s departure from Egypt, the Lord spoke to Moses in the Tabernacle[a] in the wilderness of Sinai. On the first day of the second month of that year he said, 2 “From the whole community of Israel, record the names of all the warriors by their clans and families. List all the men 3 twenty years old or older who are able to go to war. You and Aaron must register the troops, 4 and you will be assisted by one family leader from each tribe. Numbers 1:1-4 NLT

    Footnotes
    a. 1:1a Hebrew the Tent of Meeting.
    b. 1:1b This day in the ancient Hebrew lunar calendar occurred in April or May.

    46 The total number was 603,550. Numbers 1:46 NLT

    You're talking about religious maturity is at the age of 13 but manhood starts at the age of 20. At that age those young men were matured enough and so they were able to go to war. The Israelites were not going to send 13-year-old boys off to war. They had to be a man, at age 20 or older.

    We Read in Scripture:

    3 twenty years old or older who are able to go to war. You and Aaron must register the troops, Numbers 1:3 NLT

    Ok trev thanks for your post, it was a pleasure for me to respond to it so you can see the few errors you've made.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2023
  13. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Do you think Mitt realizes how patronizing and disengenuous this comes across at the end of all of his posts?
     
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  14. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are simply making a fool of yourself. NO army of that period came anywhere near that number. The Egyptian army had about 20,000 men. They recorded it in their record of the Battle of Kadesh 1274 BCE on palace walls found by archaeology. If they had had any more 'troops' they would have certainly brought them to the battle as they were facing a far bigger enemy who was trying to defeat them. You have no idea.

    Neither do your have an idea of the ancient world. At the age of 13 (adulthood) most of these young people were quite capable of many things. Girls were brought up in the home and watched and helped their mother to run the home, cook and do all a 'housewife' would do. She would learn how to treat and manage a family and husband. Boys would, from an early age, join their father in his line of work and learn all there was to know about keeping and providing for a family. The were far in advance of our children of today. Arranged marriages would take place at an age when both sets of parents agreed their young person was ready. And that was often in their early teens. There was little playtime for children in those days. \One of the reasons for the 20 year minimum limit was that by that time many young men had families to to keep the family line going if they were killed.

    All you quote is from the Bible. That is a pity as we know that Moses, the Exodus etc never happened. Not a shred of Evidence for it in History. . Rather the evidence is against it. No. I didn't quote Numbers 1:46 for the simple reason that there were no 12 Tribes of Israel. It's all part of a mythical story.

    And I don't remember mentioning So, your statement, "In the first place, when Israel left Egypt they had 603,550 armed men for war if all of those men were living at the time "(Numbers 1:46). I used Exodus. You're simply twisting my post for yourself.

    Jewish and Middle East manhood started at 13. Even in this country in the old days a boy of 13/14 was 'man' enough to be put to work. I have a friend who went down the pit (coal) at 14 to help support his parents and family before the last war.Children were put to work though they earned little.

    If Charles Dodgson had added God to his book Alice in Wonderland you would be quoting from him.

    Thanks for effort to make believe in a mythical story. I've learned better.
     
  15. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Lol...sorry trev but I'm not twisting anything. Does it hurt you that much when someone like me corrects errors you've made?...I think it does...oh you poor fella! Oh, and those first three words you put in bold face, those are my words, that's why I had a comma after the word "statement". Then I put your statement between quotation marks. That's what you call using proper grammar trev.

    It's your quote that you made on Jan 28, 2014. Let me bring up that quote again, mind you I'm not putting up everything you said but just the part where you are having difficulty understanding that it's you who said it...lol

    After where it says: trevorw2539 said: click on the arrow pointing upwards, it will take you to Part 11 where you initially made the quote. Man do I have to teach you how to use the site too?...lol

    So below is that infamous quote of yours, a quote that I exposed in my previous post to be untrue. Truth be told, they had 600,000 when they left Egypt as confirmed by Scripture I presented.

    Nope, why do you insist on lying when your quote says otherwise? You used Numbers 1:46 as reference. I don't see anything from Exodus mentioned by you.

    Ok thanks trev for your post, it was a pleasure for me to respond to it. And please try to be intellectually honest for a change, everyone makes mistakes, I know I have myself, matter of fact there have been times on these threads where I acknowledged my mistakes. So be a big boy trev and just admit when you're wrong. Why hide it when your quotes are there for everyone to see and so your denials only illustrates your dishonesty...sheesh!
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2023
  16. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  17. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Part 11. That was how long ago. I was replying to you current post not Part II. Are you that devious? You say you are so far behind but yet you can go back all that way. Are you so desperate that you have to go back 9 years. 600000 armed men is so hilarious any historian would laugh you out of court.

    How about you being intellectually honest for a change. You can't point me to a shred of evidence that Israel were ever in Egypt, That Abraham ever existed. That there ever was a Noah's flood. Be intellectually honest and say you just believe without any proof. Be intellectually honest and say you can't answer the questions I posed you. Be intellectually honest and say you cannot prove the existence of a God.
    You really are pathetic. Sheesh.
     
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  18. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mitt wants Intellectual Honesty so in future before quoting the Bible and Jesus he will make the following statement 'While I believe this is what the Bible and Jesus said, I have no proof'.

    We'll see. Mitt postings have shown me one reason why I left Christianity. No proof - just faith in a book proven to be mostly stories. A belief in the OT which Christians claim refers to Jesus due to their interpretation but have no proof - no name Jesus in the OT. Mitt, who claims to be a Christian, believes in the Nativity stories which contradict themselves and go against the Laws of the day, and in the Trial and crucifixion stories which no-one can agree on.

    Intellectual Honesty? Wow.
     
  19. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Good replies WanRen to the not so gifted fella who has a habit, a penchant for mocking God. He even dares to mock Him in regard to the time Jesus was dying on the cross, shedding His innocent blood...wow! such vile disrespect!

    But mocking God does not go on forever for the unbeliever for there shall be a day when the mocking stops.

    We Read in Scripture:

    "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap." Galatians 6:7 ESV

    Ok thanks WanRen and gift for your posts.
     
  20. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    You are being too easy on the not so gifted fella WanRen but your response was a good one but not in my view adequate enough.

    And so let me add to your response WanRen in responding to this disrespectful, filled with sarcasm and ridicule line of questioning coming from the not so gifted one.

    Using tact in asking questions pertaining to God/Jesus/Holy Bible was never a trait of his.

    First of all, God did not choose to hang Himself on a cross.

    Jesus was unjustly/wrongly condemned to death by crucifixion at the orders of evil men. For He was innocent of all charges. These evil men chose the method of how they were going to execute Jesus. Crucifixion was a barbaric and very cruel way of executing a condemned person to death. It was a slow, painful death of agony for the condemned.

    Jesus did not deserve to be condemned and put to death in this manner that was carried out by evil men. For He was the only person who ever lived that lived a sinless life.

    God allowed these evil men to do an unrighteous act, but because of God's supreme wisdom, He turns this unrighteous act into something good, something positive that is done for the benefit of all mankind.

    Jesus' life is restored on the 3rd day, He is resurrected from the dead and now sinners can be redeemed through their belief and faith that Jesus died to save them from the punishment of their sins. Jesus paid the sin debt for mankind.

    This sacrifice at the altar of injustice is the ultimate expression of God's love. Amazingly, in the midst of a monstrous injustice God can design a means of victory.

    The just one dies unjustly for the unjust to make them just! The ways and wisdom of God are beyond our figuring out; we cannot understand them until He gives us revelation.

    We Read in Scripture:

    22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are. 23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. 24 Yet God, in his grace, freely makes us right in his sight. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he makes sinners right in his sight when they believe in Jesus. Romans 3:22-26 NLT

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

    "For God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life" John 3:16 NLT

    What we really should feel sorry for are all the unbelievers in the world who choose not to believe that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior.

    Ok thanks WanRen and giff for your posts.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2023
  21. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Tut. Tut, You forgot to say This is what I believe but I can't prove it.. Intellectual honesty?
     
  22. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    It's already understood by all intellectually honest people that no one can prove/disprove the existence of God.

    So, everyone has faith in what they believe. There is no need to always say this is what I believe but I can't prove it.

    You have faith in your religion of atheism that God doesn't exist.

    Have I ever asked you to prove to me that God doesn't exist?...no I haven't because it's already understood you can't prove it.

    But I see it hurt you so much when I called you out for being intellectually dishonest in my previous post...lol

    Oh you poor fella you. Well, I was just telling the truth. I mean for a very small mistake you made; you couldn't even admit you were wrong...lol

    And your posts proved you were wrong but because of your intellectual dishonesty you tried to cover up your error...lol

    Ok thanks for your post trev, it was a pleasure for me to respond to it in an intellectually honest way, which is something foreign to you.

    Tut Tut.
     
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  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why are tresponding to ghosts from 10 years ago .. as if then you had answers to the questions put forth .. though like our poor Wanren you failed to address the simple questions put to you .. and thus they have been haunting you .. and clearly confusing you as I have not mocked God .. It is you who mocks God on a regular basis .. stuffing him into some box of your own creation..

    I merely asked a few obvious questions about the last words of Jesus on the Cross .. Why the Christ says that his God has forsaken him?

    You ran from this scripture 10 years ago .. and I expect nothing less in the present Brother Mitt . .. those ghosts from the past still haunting you.

    Who is Jesus talking to ?
    Did he forget who he was ?
    Was he so delirious in his masochistic drama that he forgot who he was ?

    Speak to the living Brother Mitt .. and not to the Dead.. :chainsaw::cynic::deadhorse:
     
    The Wyrd of Gawd likes this.
  24. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What has proving god got to do with it. You simply changing the subject again.

    As to being hurt I am simply laughing. We were talking about one post and you have to go back 9 years to a different conversation to try to prove me wrong. If I had been using the figure you quote I would have said so. It's interesting you quote that figure in Numbers which disagrees with the Bible in Exodus. So which is it?

    And I didn't try to cover up anything. You just twisted things. You really are pathetic.

    Try this article. It uses the Bible figures and Bible words to show just how ridiculous the story is. From a Jewish source. It also shows that I was right that 600000 is entirely unrealistic. You will note that the Bible explanation means that in one case families had to have 50 children each to reach Bible figures. Moses is told that they are a small nation. The Bible estimated figures of 2.5 - 3m. show, if you know ancient History, that they would have been among, or even, the largest nation of the time.

    Be honest Mitt. You only 'believe' the Bible is true because you refuse to accept you might be wrong. That's not intellectual honesty but sheer ignorance.

    Thanks for your post.
     
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  25. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Let me explain to you Gawd what's going on here. This explanation below is what I presented to WanRen and Akhlut back on Dec 16, 2022. I don't know if you remember those members but anyway just in case you didn't get the memo, I will present it again the explanation I gave them. Mind you this explanation was more directed towards Akhlut than it was WanRen because it was Akhlut who said, "Since YHWH explicitly states women are worth less than men and St. Paul explicitly says women are to have no power over men, it's pretty apparent that women are viewed as second-class citizens at best or chattel at worst."

    So below was my explanation:

    When a man consecrates by a vow certain persons to the Lord there was a valuation process needed to be followed, we see that in Leviticus 27:3-8 the redemption price for men, women, and children were different based on age and gender. What did it mean to consecrate a person to the Lord? It could be done either for one's self, or on behalf of another (such as consecrating a child unto the Lord). This was a completely voluntary act, meant to demonstrate that this person was totally given to God.
    When a vow was made, the amount of the offering as I said above varied based on age and gender. Below is the valuation list.

    Males 60 and over: 15 shekels
    Females 60 and over: 10 shekels
    Males ages 20 to 60: 50 shekels
    Females ages 20 to60: 30 shekels
    Males ages 5 to 20: 20 shekels
    Females ages 5 to 20: 10 shekels
    Males ages 0 to 5: 5 shekels
    Females ages 0 to 5: 3 shekels

    Clearly, the males 20 to 60 years of age required the highest price, and males were more expensive to dedicate than females. The reason appears to be based on the person's ability to work in an agricultural society and on how many years that person could work. A male aged 20 to 60 was seen as someone who could perform the best labor, therefore resulting in the highest price. Those over 60 and under 20 could do some work, but not as much, traditionally. Those 5 years old and under required the lowest price, as they would have been unable to work much or at all.

    So again it was nothing to do with God viewing women as 2nd class citizens at best or chattel at worst as you seem to believe it to be but it had all to do based on the person's ability to work in an agricultural society and on how many years that person could work.

    As we all know generally speaking it is a fact that men are physically stronger than women, anyone denying this known fact is, shall we say, a dishonest person.

    God sees all of us as equals. The New Testament notes different roles for men and women but affirms the equality of both.

    Scripture tells us, "Faith in Christ Jesus is what makes each of you equal with each other, whether you are a Jew or a Greek, a slave or a free person, a man or a woman."---Galatians 3:28 CEV

    Oh, and Gawd I'm curious and I have a question for you. A while back 10 years ago you were quoted saying this below.

    So, how do you think I'm doing currently? Do you still think I'm doing a good job and keeping up the good work...or no? I'm just curious to know what you think after all these years.

    Ok thanks Gawd for your post and I hope you now understand that God doesn't view women as second-class citizens at best or chattel at worst as member Akhlut believed.
     
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