Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Try studying the OT. There is no mention of Jesus. The prophecies in the OT are fulfilled on the OT. The rest is Christian interpretation. Jesus existed as a Jewish preacher. He tells us himself that he came unto his own. He preached Judaism, most of his parables were taken from the OT relationship of Israel to their God. The 'prophecies' of Isaiah and Jeremiah were fulfilled in their time. Other 'prophecies' were either written at the time - or later. Daniels 'dreams' are so full of errors, religious, custom wise and Kingwise they are just stories. The Daniel of the Bible in the kings court is not the storybook Daniel because of the above. The second part of Daniel records the Seluecid invasion of the Maccabean/Hamonean kingdom as it happened. The sacrilege of Antiochus Epiphanes, the defeat of the Seluecids and the history of the rest of the kingdom. Internal wars with Priests and their supporters fighting each other to claim the High Priesthood. This eventually led to the Romans taking over.

Jesus was a Jewish preacher sent to his own. The disciples turned him into a divinity.
'Prophecy' is simply understanding the situation of the time and warning of consequences if they are ignored.
Jeremiah recognised the foolish actions of the northern kings in even trying to oppose Assyria. His warning went unheeded. The Assyrians took over both north and south kingdoms. The only difference was that Judah paid tribute to be allowed to rule itself.
When the Babylonians defeated the Assyrians the same condition appled to the southern kingdom. Babylon only invaded the southern kingdom when Judah - against Isaiahs advice - signed an agreement with Babylons enemy - Egypt. This Babylon could not allow. Some years before this an Egyptian army had advanced on Babylon up the main road East of Jordan. The Egyptians were defeated. With Judah signing an agreement with Egypt this opened the road through the Judean hills for Egypt on the west side of the Jordan as well as the East. So the Babylonians sealed that route and they took many into captivity.

Have you ever studied the history of the time of the OT? We have no extrabiblical generally recognised evidence of David. But we do of several other OT Kings. Omri, in particular, was a genuinely powerful, influential king, but except for a brief mention is left out of the OT. Probably because he didn't fit in because he allowed idol worship of his own and other conquered people.

Prophecy. In the UK in the 1930's we had a politician called Winston Churchill. for 10 years he 'prophesied' about Hitler, and his 'prophecies' came to pass. The simply truth is that he understood Hitler and his ambitions. It was simply the ability to understand what was going on.

Have you never 'prophesied' when someone has told you their intentions on a particular matter and you have been able to see problems they have not, and warned them. Several of my 'prophecies' have come true down the years.

What is the point of a 2000 year old prophecy when the people who hear the prophecy have no possibility of doing anything.

 

Were Jesus name mentioned pre Christ, there'd be thousands of Jesus's. So it is appropriate that the scriptures are silent up to his actual birth. And all of a sudden he was upon them like a thief in the night. I know very little of the Bible. I only know from God that God is real, that he lives, is divine, and that we all have forgotten him since our birth. Now all that we know is by our senses and the world. How can we say that our senses which fade and die along with the world, is actually to live. What is proclaimed by our nose dive to the grave. Should we say, hey watch me perish, or God please save me. What is astute about vanity?

 

The Abrahamic faiths have differing views on Jesus.

Muslims revere Jesus as the premier prophet of his time and before, the only human to have worked miracles through the power of God. Thus they accept a lot of what he says, but not the claims that he IS God or the idea that the OT is no longer "operable".

Jews and the various branches of Christianity have other views on who Jesus was.

It has been Christians who determined that the OT became no longer operable in terms of attaining heaven.

Given God's powers of omniscience, it's pretty hard to accept the notion that God's plan for man's relationship to God became "superseded".

Judaism was the birthplace of this God as worshipped on Earth. That worship of God continued for millennia.

It's not easy to believe that Jesus was born, claimed to BE God (or part of God) and informed Jews that all those who continued in Judaism were now "excommunicated" - and that humans switched to that.

I'm sure that the message of peace, love and the requirement of helping others was attractive, but ... yikes!

 

I would agree, but Christianity has said that the prophecies relate to Jesus - named in the OT or not.
Animals all have senses and intelligence, some close to our own. Do they go to heaven?
Death is part of lifes experiences. Vanity is the thought that because you're religious you'll go to heaven for eternity - whatever that is.

 

Yes, humans are part of the animal kingdom, evolving from the same original life forms as all other plants and animals. We can see that evolution in the evidence provided. Modern humans are clearly part of that evolutionary history, developing larger brains as a means of thriving, etc., etc.

The idea that we are somehow special in having this supernatural capability can only be a salve for the pain humans feel due to having enough brainpower to identify our own deaths as a serious loss.

 

Well, we know that they certainly won't go to hell that's for sure. Animals do not sin, they do things instinctively.

But do they go to heaven? Let me present an interesting video presentation from my favorite Christian Ministry to get their view. They answer the questions: Do pets go to Heaven? Do animals have souls?



Ok thanks trev for your post.

 

That is just plain sad as an attempt at an argument.

To start with, it depends on a lack of understanding of the animal world, what humans are, etc. Besides, humans created pets - they are a sad representation of the animal kingdom, of which WE are a part.

The whole idea that humans are the image of god is clearly part of some allegory. One would have to identify what aspect of a human could possibly be similar to a supreme being that is omniscient and can not be verified to even exist.

 

That's your belief and theory. The theory of the evolution of man was always an absurdity to me. But as for my conversion, I had no want of salvation or knowledge of, or a want to know of God at my conversion. It came out of the blue like an eagle, but brought peace like a dove. I know of no greater thing than that God lives. And it is astonishing to me that I was able to recognize and remember his spirit. It is like waking from a fitful dream and realizing that you are a Son of the King when in your dream you were a blind, poverty stricken, prisoner in a dungeon.

 

I'm happy for you.

But, lets be happy for those of other beliefs, as those believers claim similar benefits.

And, let's not each use our religious beliefs as weapons as we work on realizing the objectives of our constitution.

 

I won't force my particular religion on you. And I would hope that you wouldn't force yours on me. But as for God, he is already inherent in our nations birth, our peoples freedom, and our equality in freedom, as stated in our Declaration of Independence and signed by our Founding Fathers. It is also noteworthy that we fought a war to ensure those concepts against those who did not honor or respect them or regard our right to be free from England and the false Church of England.

 

The story about Satan tempting Jesus in the wilderness is silly. The Jesus character was supposed to have been the son of God and was with him at creation. Was Satan there as well? How did the all-powerful God let a nobody gain so much power that the nobody could tempt his son? And how did the son of God become subordinate to a fieldhand? It is like the crown prince taking orders from the town garbageman.

 

The story itself is not at all silly. What is silly is thinking that the Character Jesus was "God" aka "The Father" "Supreme One" "Daddy to both Satan and Jesus"

The idea that Satan would not recognize "Daddy" would be preposterous nonsense .. "IF" Jesus was in fact "Daddy" .. But this idea is just moronic nonsense try and make the irrational Trinity concept rational . If Jesus is Daddy .. then who was he crying out to on the cross .. who forsook him .. If Jesus is both Jesus and Daddy .. that would mean he is -- in supposedly some kind of self induced masochistic euphoria .. forgot who he was and started calling out to himself .. claiming to have forsaken himself.

K - Moral da story .. The author of Mark did not believe Jesus was God -- the Father. Jesus is depicted as the son of God .. not only by the disciples but by Jesus himself . over and over .. " our father .. who art in heaven" that Guy .. is not Jesus.. according to the Gospel of Mark

 

Even the Bible says that you shouldn't believe Jewish fairytales.

 

That is what the early Christian Church taught .. round 100 AD . "Hearken not to Jewish fairytales" followed by an entreaty to believe in the cross or some such thing.

 

Are you not sad you will have no pet to keep you company Mitt ?

 

Your favourite Christian Ministry? Shows your inability to think for yourself.

We are all animals of varying intelligence. We also do many things instinctively which we have developed over the millenia. Cavemen instinctively sought food, defended themselves from danger, sexual urges which produced offspring. We are people of instinct but have learned to control SOME of those instincts over the millenia. However, if someone tries to strike you, do you not instinctively defend yourself. If someone runs out in front of you while you're driving you instinctively brake when your brain registers the danger. Your instincts tell you to run from danger, etc.

You are a person of instinct. When asked a question you cannot answer you either ignore or change the subject or switch to 'your favourite Christian website' .

 

Yes, trev they are my favorite Christian Ministry because they keep in line with what's written in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible which is the Word of God. And guess what is my favorite book? That's right trev, it's the Holy Bible.

LOL

So that includes you...lol

You told us you did study outside of the Bible which influenced you to become an atheist. Didn't you have the ability to think for yourself instead of having to rely on that study you did that influenced you to become an atheist?

Truth is, trev my boy, we are all influenced one way or another by the sources we get our information from. It is up to us by way of our thinking to believe or not believe that info we receive.

I happen to believe everything as written in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible as the Word of God. I also happen to believe the articles furnished by my favorite Christian Ministry because they keep in line with what's written in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible.

You believe all that outside study that you did that influenced you to believe that God does not exist.

Ok trev thanks for your post, a post that was nonsensical because it was emotionally charged with the aim to demean and disparage so therefore rendered invalid.

Like they say trev, "if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen" no pun intended.

 

Then tell me why my questions to you are unanswered - if you can. You know I am right but your instinct is self preservation of your perceived - by yourself - reputation. Like you, your GotQuestions has failed 3 times in their answers to my questions.

And my post was intended to show you how you actually think and act. You obviously don't know that you act on instinct. You reply to me has shown that. Your instinct was to immediately answer - as always. A Book tells you that you are your Gods creation but provides no proof at all. Biology provides answers to mans evolution.

Didn't you have the ability to think for yourself instead of having to rely on that study you did that influenced you to become an atheist?

What is study but the finding out what you didn't know?

How did you find out what the Bible says without study? Didn't you have the ability to think for yourself?

Do you take everything you read as the absolute truth? If GotQuestions told you the moon was made of cheese - wouldn't you question it?
Haven't you ever asked how Joseph and family were in Nazareth and Egypt at the same time? Got Questions couldn't give me an answer because they did not know the history of the time.
Have you ever asked why the Bible gives the Hydrological Cycle which proves that Noahs Flood could not have happened as the Bible says.
Truth is only discovered by testing and trying. Believing one Book is about narrowness of mind.

Intelligence is not the ability to store knowledge BUT TO KNOW WHERE TO FIND IT
Albert Einstein

Knowledge does not come without study.

Do you understand that, Mitt. For all your quoting your favourite media knowledge comes from personal study - not of one book but many opposing views.

Living on my own I do all my own cooking so heat is of no concern to me, but it appears to be affecting your ability to answer my questions.

 

So, on Jan 19, 2023, you tell us that there are no prophecies in the Bible. Then last Tue on the 28th of this month you tell us the prophecies in the OT are fulfilled on the OT.

Well, at least you made some progress, however you're still not quite there yet. Although there are prophecies fulfilled in the OT the bulk of it was fulfilled in the NT and we still have the prophecy of the Lord's Second Coming yet to be fulfilled.

I guess if you're able to now at least admit the Bible has prophecies in it then perhaps it won't be long before you also admit lots of prophecies have been fulfilled in the NT.

So, there is still a sliver of hope for you on the horizon trev.

Ok thanks trev for your posts.

 

Please read all my posts. I have stated time and again there are no prophecies in the OT.
You are simply taking 2 different quotes out of context.
I have explained time and time again the difference between a 'prophecy' and an astute summing up of a situation. You simply don't get it do you.

Tell me Mitt. If your GotQuestions told you that the world would in the year 2823 how would you change your life. To have any effect a 'prophecy' must relate to the time, not 800 years in the future.

It really is amusing how you criticise me and ignore all the questions I ask you. You really are getting desperate.

You have never studied the OT or the background and yet criticise everything I say. You know nothing of the ancient world except what your favourite website tells you. You believe in a flood that even the Bible says could not have occurred. A Biblical Exodus for which there is no evidence whatever. You believe that Moses wrote at least part of the Pentateuch in a language which didn't exist in his time. You believe in a virgin birth because of a passage in Isaiah which actually talks about a Hebrew maiden and not a Hebrew virgin.

Didn't you have the ability to think for yourself instead of having to rely on that study you did that influenced you to become an atheist?

You don't even know the difference between thinking and studying.

I don't need to bother about any criticism from you, you're simply showboating.

 

Mitt. Tell me where the OT mentions Jesus. Forget Christian teaching. Where is Jesus mentioned?

 

The Old Testament is in the New Testament revealed.''

 

The Hidden Message in the Names (Genesis 5)
Posted on September 24, 2018 by admin




We often use the term, “the gospel” or the “good news” to talk about God’s message of salvation.

My question to you is, where is the first place that it appears in the Bible? The answer may surprise you.

The Bible is the most remarkable document ever created. It is not simply 66 books penned by 40 authors over thousands of years. 2nd Timothy 3:16 tells us that “All Scripture is God-breathed…” One of our great comforts is that not only do we believe in the 39 books of the Old Testament because the Lord Jesus Christ affirmed the Old Testament. But we also believe in the New Testament because those 27 books written by His apostles were in fact authorized by the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Bible as an integrated whole bares evidence of God’s supernatural engineering in every detail. As an example, what other religious book do you know that can predict the future as accurately as the Bible can? I mean, in so many instances to the exact and precise date and detail!

It is literally a supernaturally designed wealth of knowledge….and a messaging system far more advanced that any technology man could produce. You might ask, “what do you mean by that?”

Let me share with you a remarkable example of this.

Genesis, Chapter 5. How many of you can recall a single detail about Genesis 5 without looking?

Well, it is the genealogy of Adam through Noah and I bet you that you and I have skimmed over this chapter many times without any deep study. Often times, the meaning of proper names lends great insight and understanding to the story or scenario of any reading in the Bible. Here are some examples:

Isaiah –“Jehovah saves” or “The Lord saves”

Abraham- “Father of many” or “Father of multitude”

Jesus’ name is the root of Joshua which means “The Lord saves.”

And in the first chapter of Matthew the Lord spoke to Joseph just before His birth in a dream and told him that “they will call Him Immanuel-which means, ‘God with us.” (Matthew 1:23)

Well let’s get back to Genesis 5, I want you to take a look at these names……and their meanings. And then let’s examine it and put it together.

Adam. Adam’s name means “man.” As the first man that seems straight forward.

Seth. Adam’s son was Seth, which means “appointed.”

Enosh. Seth’s son was Enosh which means “mortal, frail, or miserable.”

Kenan. Enosh’s son was Kenan, which means “sorrow.”

Mahalalel. Kenan’s son was Mahalalel which means “blessed or praise.” “El” means God.

Combined, his name means “Blessed God.”

Jared. Mahalalel’s son was Jared, which comes from root verb “yaradh”- “shall come down.”

Enoch. Jared’s son was named Enoch, which means “teaching, or commencement”

Methuselah. Enoch’s son Methuselah, comes from two words. Muth means “death”, shalach “to bring”

Combined, Methuselah’s name means “his death shall bring”

Lamech. Methuselah’s son was Lamech, a root still evident today “lament(ation)”

Lamech means “despairing.”

Noah. Lamech’s son is Noah which is derived from “nacham” –“to bring relief, comfort”

Put It All Together:

Adam Man
Seth Appointed
Enosh Mortal
Kenan Sorrow
Mahalalel The Blessed God
Jared Shall Come Down
Enoch Teaching
Methuselah His Death Shall Bring
Lamech The Despairing
Noah Rest or Comfort

“Man is appointed mortal sorrow; but the Blessed God shall come down teaching that His death shall bring the despairing rest or comfort.”

 

You pose the question "where is first place salvation appears in the Bible" but do not answer that question .. my guess might be Adam and Eve .. but no idea wehre you think salvation in the bible begins.

You then go on to say that Jesus affirmed the OT ? .. Not to my knowledge he didn't ..certainly not all of it .. and if anything he negated parts of it.

 

Vanity to me is to say that without God we truly live or are anything to speak of. You say we spontaneously spawn and evolve without purpose, only to die. Then you extoll the sciences and things men make as if there were purpose in purposelessness. In so doing you deify man as if to glorify a dying thing. At this you seek Godhood while denying the existence of God, as if in hoping to prove something. Isn't that vanity, in knowing that you will die and it will be for nothing, if what you believe is true, that there is no God. If we seek perfection, what is the catalyst or genesis of this inspired endeavor. Are repentance and forgiveness foreign concepts when we practice them among ourselves all of our lives? Is resurrection far fetched, when in danger we call 911 to bring us from near death to life, that perhaps we might be snatched from the jaw, even knowing that in the end it will take us. Wouldn't it be better to go thru it knowing the outcome, and thus secure our eternal souls, storing our treasures in heaven. Where is the science and careful prudence in the recklessness of unbelief. Are we born into an empty world, or is it teeming? Are we not suited to it and it to us. We didn't see it coming, yet it was suddenly upon us and we in it. So who's to say that because we cannot fathom with our senses, a God and heaven, that it cannot be, a life beyond this life, and worlds without end.