Pfizer had evidence their jab increased myocarditis risks

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Steve N, Mar 18, 2023.

  1. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    As is typical of the dissonant mindset, your numbers are way the heck off. The IFR for the 'virus' is less than 1%. The chances of harm from the shots are great.
     
  2. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The difference is that if a local provider fails to deliver to the patient the proper handouts and side effect information for proper informed consent, it's a local problem, not the vast conspiracy of evil vaccine makers, national policy makers, scientists, nurses and doctors trying to screw Americans like some of you all seem to believe in [insert rolling eyes here]. Like I said, the information was available; providers were supposed to deliver it to people; those who failed to do so, while wrongly, are part of a local problem rather than a national problem. I think it's an important distinction, don't you think?

    If Steve N who accepted the jabs had been informed of the risk of myocarditis, according to him he wouldn't have accepted them, and it was his right to refuse. So, his providers failed to disclose the risk to him, a risk that was known at the time. I still think he ended up better off because like I said, the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine, while real, is both in statistical and severity terms, smaller than the risk of myocarditis from the virus, but that's another consideration. Regardless of comparative risk, he had a right to receive the information before deciding if he wanted the jabs or not. Don't you agree?

    But it's one thing if national policy makers and vaccine makers hide the information, and another one if the information is available and by policy supposed to be delivered to patients, but local providers fail to do so. The latter while still wrong and a failure, is a much smaller failure, population-wise. For Steve N himself, the failure did mean that he didn't get the information, but many others did, while if the failure stemmed from national policy, then nobody would have received the information, and all Americans would have been victims of the failure, instead of just a few unlucky local people.

    What is worse, failing hundreds of millions of Americans everywhere, or failing a few hundred local people? I can't understand why you think it's the same thing. It just isn't.
     
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  3. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    And for every negative report there were a hundred propagandists drowning out the truth.. Need proof, then simply read the Coronavirus forum on this little website and times that by a thousand. In fact, I believe you have quite a few entries there as well ;)
     
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  4. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    The proportion of deaths from Covid among the unvaccinated was much higher than the proportion of deaths from Covid among the vaccinated. Obviously some weighting should be applied to these statistics since the right are more likely to be unvaccinated than the left and the proportion of the right in the older age range is higher than the proportion of the left in that same older range and covid was more deadly to the older population
     
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  5. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Is there a particular reason you wouldn't get the Pfizer shot given this from the CDC?

    Should I Still Get Myself or My Child Vaccinated?
    Yes. CDC continues to recommend that everyone ages 6 months and older get vaccinated for COVID-19. The known risks of COVID-19 illness and its related, possibly severe complications, such as long-term health problems, hospitalization, and even death, far outweigh the potential risks of having a rare adverse reaction to vaccination, including the possible risk of myocarditis or pericarditis.

    If you have already gotten the first dose of Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, or if your child has already gotten the first dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, it’s important to get the second dose unless a vaccination provider or your doctor tells you not to get it.

    If you have concerns about COVID-19 vaccination, talk with your healthcare provider or your child’s doctor, nurse, or clinic.

    If you have any health problems after vaccination, report them to VAERS.

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html

    I'm not suggesting you should take the vaccine, but looking for more reasoning on the subject. What is the incidence of problems for various age groups and what have been the outcomes? It's a known problem and not one that can be covered up.
     
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  6. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All my entries were very professional and based upon published science. I never hid any of the side effects. As a matter of fact, my Vaccine thread addressed some of the scarier ones much before anybody here was talking about them. You do need to understand that even the worst vaccine outcomes (and they do exist) are still less frequent than what the virus itself causes, by a large factor.
     
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  7. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I don't think most people are relying on the Caronavirus forum for a decision on the vaccine. I spend some time there because I'm interested in the thinking people have on covid. What I find they don't understand well is the impact on the economy.

    A recent survey had just under 50% of Americans saying they won't ever go back to the life they had before covid. I suspect many of them are wrong--that it make take time--but some of their trajectory may have changed. My doctor retired early. I think he was disappointed some of his patients were interested in his knowledge. A few teachers I know got sick of teaching because it got hard for teachers who don't understand how to use computers. Same for some people working from home. Others I know are happy to work from home and will quit before going back to the office.
     
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  8. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    If you have read my post correctly you would have seen that it was an EXAMPLE of how negative information was meet with a plethora of propaganda squelching any and everything not in line with the current narrative pushed by the agenda driven main stream media and even some folks here on PF..

    upload_2023-3-19_19-38-12.png
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2023
  9. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    And many were incorrect as time and data is now proving!! Unless you are claiming that you had it right then with what we now know today?
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2023
  10. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    A sad post.
     
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  11. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I read your post and hastened to suggest I don't believe the propaganda is influencing many participants.
     
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  12. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Then again, MANY is a suggestive that is not easily proven or disproven on a forum/website this small. I was just using it as a very small example of the entire event..

    upload_2023-3-19_20-52-8.png
     
  13. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    What we see on this forum (not your correspondent) is really quite nuts.
     
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  14. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    You were talking about this forum.
     
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  15. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Are you claiming the people on the forum who say the virus doesn't exist are dissembling?
     
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  16. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Good luck getting anything across to these folks.

    upload_2023-3-19_20-38-24.gif
     
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  17. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nothing was incorrect at the time. I do not post incorrect stuff; I am a professional and I know what I do (or did, I'm recently retired). This is the nature of clinical trials and market release. More data becomes available in post-market phase. This is true of ALL medicines known to man. You just don't seem to know how this work. You can't hold phase 3 trials forever. At one point you need to release the substance, especially given the pandemic emergency. Then naturally, after phase 3 trials with 30K to 50K participants, you get literally billions of doses and some rare side effects become more evident with time. Efficacy also changes with the evolution of the virus. There is nothing evil or strange here. It's just that lay people like you are not used to this process. It's been the same process for several decades; it's just that this time, it got politicized.
     
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  18. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    Big pharma in America is one of the most corrupt, if not by far the most corrupt institution in the United States. And yet, attempts to reform big pharma have always been opposed until very recently when the Biden Administration(needing to buy off the uber liberals from the Sanders-Warren group) finally enacted medicare purchasing power.

    That's a start in the right direction, but I think a big thing we need to do is remove immunity for these companies and to engage in high standard settings. There's no reason the world's superpower should have a mediocre or worse health care result.
     
  19. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Yup ;) AT THE TIME.. That was the theme/concern AT THAT TIME :) Now look, sure glad I didn't preach the "trust the folks making a fortune" at defending the Chinese those years, don't know if I could live with myself knowing I argued in support of a vaccine that did very little of what it was promised to do while helped to discredit those Doctors and researchers that warned of potential dangers and side effects ;)
     
  20. WhoDatPhan78

    WhoDatPhan78 Banned

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    What is the date of these documents?

    The CDC published a study in June 2021 saying that the vaccines had a higher risk of myocarditis. It's not like this hasn't been an acknowledged thing for a long time.

    COVID-19 mRNA vaccines in adolescents and young adults: Benefit-risk discussion (cdc.gov)
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2023
  21. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    You cannot tuck the vaccine immunity because they will pull the SAME crap they did last time. Pharmacy companies threatened to stop making ALL vaccines if the government did not stop the “nuisance lawsuits” they were experiencing
    https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html

    For the COVID vaccines it goes a little further thanks to the Trump admin
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2023
  22. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    That just may be an understatement:p
     
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  23. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The vaccine did very little of what it was promised to do? I can't control what politicians say. We scientists always said that the vaccine was effective for avoiding infection when it was, and then after the virus mutated and it became less effective against infection, we accurately said that it remained effective for avoiding severe cases of Covid-19 with hospitalizations and death. We scientists never pretended anything different. We assessed the efficacy in real life as it happened and as the virus mutated.

    It's the same for the flu vaccine. It mostly doesn't avoid infection but it makes it milder and less life-threatening for vulnerable populations. Nobody seemed to question that... but people go berserk when the same is true of the Covid-19 vaccine. Again, it's because it got politicized. But yes, the vaccines did a fairly good job. As the virus mutated, less and less good at avoiding infection, but still very good at avoiding hospitalizations and death, for the most part. These vaccines saved millions of lives (and did kill a few people; all medications and all vaccines have side effects and almost all rarely, cause fatal outcomes - even Tylenol can kill someone - liver failure).

    It's all an issue of risks and benefits. You give the vaccine to billions of people. You prevent literally millions of deaths. You cause a few hundred deaths. Millions saved beats hundreds killed. In terms of public health, it's a no-brainer. But yes, individual (but rare) bad outcomes do happen, like with almost all medications.

    What politicians said, what the CDC directors said, what Fauci said, these are all politicians (although the CDC directors both under Trump and under Biden, and Fauci were also scientists, they became politicians when they accepted these political positions). And who defended the Chinese? Again, the WHO, etc., that is, politicians. I never "defended the Chinese." I always lamented the way they handled the notifications, PPE exports, counterfeit K95 masks, and how obstructive they were regarding foreign investigations into the origins of the virus.

    By the way, when I comment on Politics rather than Science and Medicine, I always say that the Chinese are the #1 geopolitical adversaries of the United States (not Russia, not Putin; they are #2). Nope, I don't like the Chinese government.

    As for Pfizer and Moderna making a fortune, yes, they did. It's called Capitalism. I thought that conservatives were for it. If you don't want pharmaceutical companies to generate profit, the alternative is a world without medications and without vaccines. I guarantee that life expectancy would take a steep dive. Is that what you want? Children dying again of polio and measles? Hypertension, diabetes, and cancer killing people even more prematurely as they wouldn't be treated, controlled and put in remission? Yep, Big Pharma are corporations, and corporations want to get paid and profit, and that's why they research, develop, and distribute vaccines and medications. Beats the alternative.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2023
  24. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Injecting toxic serums into frightened individuals is a violation of human rights AND the Hippocratic Oath, not to mention the Nuremberg Principles. It doesn't matter whether it is one person so abused or millions.
     
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  25. The Verb

    The Verb Active Member

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    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC452549/

    Abstract:
    The polyomavirus simian virus 40 (SV40) is a known oncogenic DNA virus which induces primary brain and bone cancers, malignant mesothelioma, and lymphomas in laboratory animals. Persuasive evidence now indicates that SV40 is causing infections in humans today and represents an emerging pathogen. A meta-analysis of molecular, pathological, and clinical data from 1,793 cancer patients indicates that there is a significant excess risk of SV40 associated with human primary brain cancers, primary bone cancers, malignant mesothelioma, and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. Experimental data strongly suggest that SV40 may be functionally important in the development of some of those human malignancies. Therefore, the major types of tumors induced by SV40 in laboratory animals are the same as those human malignancies found to contain SV40 markers. The Institute of Medicine recently concluded that “the biological evidence is of moderate strength that SV40 exposure could lead to cancer in humans under natural conditions.” This review analyzes the accumulating data that indicate that SV40 is a pathogen which has a possible etiologic role in human malignancies. Future research directions are considered.


    [​IMG]
     
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