Please help me understand why some people are refusing to get vaccinated against COVID-19.

Here's one example of why people are refusing- we're still learning about these vaccines.
This from only 1 month ago:

"Canepa’s death as well as that of several others prompted Italian health officials to halt distribution of the AstraZeneca to people under 60 last month.

“AstraZeneca will only be used for people over 60,” stated Italy COVID commissioner Francesco Figliuolo.

“The risk-benefit assessment has changed.”

An 18yo girl died because health officials didn't know this specific vaccine could cause this reaction. Now they do, and have changed their national administration protocols as a response. Younger people in Italy that avoided vaccination prior to this event were wise to do so, because now (or, a month ago) their health officials are better equipped to more safely administer the vaccine. This begs the question to many people: how many more adverse reactions are going to occur that will further alter which vaccine is administered and to whom?

Its clear that the longer people wait to be vaccinated, the safer the vaccine becomes simply because health officials are still learning how to administer the vaccine more safely. Granted, the longer people wait, the higher their chances of suffering adverse effects to covid. But there is a demonstrable and valid "risk-benefit assessment" to be made here- get the vaccine now to protect from covid vs wait until its safer to get the vaccine to protect from adverse reactions.

Italian Neurosurgeon Who Operated on Covid Vaccine Victim Says “Never Seen Anything Like This” (infowars.com)

 

GFM I most certainly repudiated word for word what you produced on posts 70 and 72 on this forum. Claiming you were not linked in makes no sense.

In fact you even admitted I responded by asking me why I do not make my own arguments. I provide citations GFM because neither you nor I are medical doctors and we were discussing a medical subject so I cite medical professionals.

You on the other hand state you do not need ot be a doctor. With due respect you do. You have no appropriate traininhg or education as an immunologist, virologist, pharmacologist, chemist to comment on Coid 19 and yet you pose yourself and your opinions as to a subject matter you have no training in as passing off facts. In that regard you most certainly prescribed two treatments everyone can see you prescribed to pople using two medications to treat Covid 19. Prescribe is a word you may wish to look up in a dictionary because when you come on a forum and tell people what medicine they take to treat something you prescribe and you are not a doctor or a pharmacist and that means your opinion is meaningless but it is most certainly irresponsible.

Next you claim you shared known work. No you did not. You now admit you rewrote what a "friend" wrote on a forum and you did not cite his name, You passed off another's subjective opinion as your own and you then have the nerve to ask me why I do not have my own arguments/ I cite my sources precisely to show people where I get my information from that is beyond my area of expertise. You on the other hand, present subjective opinions based on what your friend said according to you and you do not reproduce his name. Neither he nor you provide citations for how you came up with your ipinions.

You believe you can just state areas of medical expertise as if you understand them with no training. That is nonsensical. More to the point when you were provided citations showing what you said was wrong, you did not address those responses, you claim you did not see them in a link when they are up on the forum.

To summarize when you provide subjective opinions as to scientific and medical matters you have no expertise on and have no medical studies to prove what you are saying-you waste peoples' time.

 

When Sally responded to you as to the above comments she said she did not care. Neither do I. How do we read what you say and care? You called your popular health advisor a fraud. You came on this forum and smeered someone calling him a fraud. You provided no proof, just a negative sbjective smeer.

What Sally and I could have spelled out in more clear terms is this, your personal negative smeers are NOT relevant. They can not and will not be considered and I can tell you why.When you smeer someone but you have no proof all you do is make yourself look bad. You could have said you disagreed with this indibvidual but you chose instead to make it personal and call this professional a liar simply because you disagree with him. Sayinbg someone does not see patients or practice medicine does not make them a fraud. Not all doctors have patients or practice private medicine. That does not make them a fraud. So when we say we do not care, don't come on the forum and say we are not interested in discussing the issues with you. We are. What we are not interested in and can not do is respond when you call people you do not know and we do not know liars and that is what a fraud is. You have no proof.

 

No one has asked you to trust a politician or anyone. If you want to make a blanket statement that all politicians can not be trusted then that is your subjective opinion. No one has asked you to believe anything. Next if you do not believe anyonbe but your doctor then do not. Again no one is here to have you change your mind. If however you call others liars, or wrong, or frauds, or mistaken or making things up, then people will debate you.

I perfectly understand why you do not trust authority figures. It is not my role or right to question that. I will not. I am only arguing why I believe Covid 19 is real and the vaccines work. Its done with respect. I think everyone else respects your right to not trust. We mean only to debate your comments on the vaccine or claims that people are dishinest. I know I sound like I am talking for others but I do not mean to. I just want to make it clear this is a debate, not a personal attack either against doctors, politicians or you. Fair is fair. Personal attacks do not help discuss the issues. Thanks.

 

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I stand by my statements. Feel free to challenge them. So far you really haven't.

I get that you disagree, I'm okay with that. If that's all you have to say in long winded repetitive posts, than there isn't really much of a discussion or debate happening here.

I get that you really really really really really don't care about my view points and insist on saying it over and over and over again and again and again as if you are trying to convince yourself that you don't care.

You don't need to repeat it 9,000,000 times I understood the first time.

The need to respond over and over again telling me this makes you appear disingenuous.

Fyi, I don't seek the same goal as most people when it comes to debate so don't expect me to change when you cry about me not playing the way you think I should. I never will and the more you whine the worse it'll get.

 

First off you stated:" I get that you really really really really really don't care about my view points"

No what I said is I do care about your opinions otherwise I would not try debate them. When I challenge your views it means I care enough to debate them. What I challenged you on was smeering an official as a fraud not your views on Covid 19.

Smeering someone's reputation because you disagree with them is intellectually lazy because you make no effort to point out what they said you disagree with and why and its cowardly because that person can not defend themselves.

If you call someone out as a liar, I challenged you to reproduce the statements you think they said were false and then provide your basis for calling them false.

You claim you stand by your comments but you can't. You have provided no basis for them. How do you defend something you have no basis to defend with? That is illogical.

Fraud means the person you accused of this is deliberately lying to make money of you and the public using their authority position and to obtain money they would not otherwise be able to obtain from you for legitimate reasons.

That is quite the accusation when you provide no proof or basis for it.

have you ever met the person you now smeer?

I challenged you for for your views on Covid 19 as you suggest but because you tried to play being a victim of your Covid 19 opinions while using your opinions as justification to smeer someone without any evidence to base your allegations.

 

So no debate? Fair enough.

 

There is nothing "potential" about the human... The human already exists.

The fetus is of the 'homo sapien sapien' species, iow it is a human like you and I. The fetus also has a heartbeat, thus it is living. The fetus is a living human, and to deny that fact is to deny science. You are being a science denier who is perfectly fine with the choice to kill a living human who has not committed any crime nor has expressed any desire to die.

 

it's an unapproved vaccine. It's not approved because we don't have enough data yet, which is much of the reason for vaccine hesitancy for some. Further, if you want an accurate count of immunity in the US, add the recovered, which brings us to about 60%.

7 fully vaccinated people have died from COVID-19 in El Paso.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...have-died-from-covid-19-in-el-paso/ar-AAMpI5m

 

Well, they have said from the start that the shots won't protect anybody from the virus, and the growing data confirms that.

 

I have been vaccinated. It was my decision after talking to several medical people I have known for years. They don't have an "ax to grind here". Why on earth should I care about those who don't? There are several reasons why on shouldn't! Everyone does not have to be like me.

 

Consider what Dr. Pete McCullough has to say, read the whole article or listen to the tape. It's not very long.

Dr. Peter Mccullough – Urgent Warning About Jabs - LewRockwell

 

I did read this. I am 67 years old. I have residual prostate cancer. My decision was very custom. There is a risk to every thing.we do. One thing about old age , it doesn't last too long. I am just tired of all the fear. I know where I am going when it's over. All that aside, I am healthy as a horse, Still do hard physical labor without a problem. It's been months since I was vaccinated with know ill effects whatsoever. I respect and understand all individual choices. That's how it should be.

 

gfm7175 copy and pasted it from a site that promotes misinformation and conspiracy theories.
https://politiplex.freeforums.net/thread/78/covid-19-deaths-debunked

 

Actually no, growing data says the exact opposite. Provide your data otherwise stop making unsubstantiated references. They are pointless. Thank you.

The primary reason to take the vaccine is so that if you do get it again you are less likely to take up valuable medical resources at hospitals or die from it.

The second reason is while it can not absolutely stop the spread of the virus or anyone catching it, it does appear to be effective in making it less contagious.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/corona...ction-after-being-vaccinated/?sh=d1b5dec714a7

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...vaccination-extremely-low-new-study-1.5398015

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...t-breakthrough-covid-cases-heres-what-to-know


https://www.publichealthontario.ca/...pi-confirmed-cases-post-vaccination.pdf?la=en

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/955162

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-vaccines-break-through-infection-canada-doses-1.6080206

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...ght-covid-19-anyway-in-u-s-cdc-says-1.5388245

https://theconversation.com/yes-you...ated-but-youre-unlikely-to-get-as-sick-163870

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/loca...getting-covid-after-being-vaccinated/2384408/

 

Aren't there lots of people in Africa and India who need those vaccines more than people in America?


It seems to me a young healthy person not taking the vaccine could be seen as a selfless act.

There are lots of people right now in Africa and India who desperately want to have access to this vaccine but can't.
Shouldn't we think of them?

Isn't it very interesting that progressives normally like to think of things in terms of global perspective and global equality, but when it comes to this issue the thinking seems to be totally in terms of national self-interest?

 

Yabber I am 65 and got prostate cancer too. I am told most of us carry it at our age and for most of us its slow growing so we die of something else. The point is we know earlier and have extra options we can choose and they monitor it and if I have that urologist stuck his hand up my ass one more time I will kill him. I also can not stand those friggin biopsies and other stuff.

Like you I find fear at my age pointless. Its a waste of energy.I am tired of fear too. With my time left I want to be positive even if I am an old grouch damn it.

About the horse many days I feel like the horse's rear end or other people are that. Call it having to pee all the time. I could not agree with you more. People make their own choices.

I believeif they choose not to get vaccinated they can't expect to want to get in my face and sneeze on me or anyone else or have access to places where they could spread the illness and they are needlessly taking up medical space they could have avoided so I argue that is selfish.

Consequences come with decisions and people who smoke cigarettes should not be surprised if they get lung cancer ansd they better not blow their smoke on others.

Its a deliberate decision not to take the vaccine and expose oneself to a risk. Fine but where their decision impacts negatively on another they better understand that and that their behaviour may harm others not just themselves.

Maybe I am judgemental but I find a lot of anti vaxers selfish sob's.

 

Well, what if we treated this like smoking?
Remember how there used to be smoking and non-smoking sections in restaurants?

The business could place a sign outside letting customers know what their policy was.
If you don't want to be near certain people, you don't have to go in.
Each business could decide for themselves.

Or maybe a business could have a special day of the week prepared for a certain category of consumers.

We need creative ideas like this to make things work for everyone and respect individual freedom.

 

With all due respect I have to say that it seems Republicans enjoy naked bigotry is more like it. At least that appears to be the case if we go by actual facts. Republicans make a great fetish of freedom but the facts of the matter are that they're in favor of all sorts of things that limits everybody's freedom quite a bit, particularly the reproductive freedom of women and the freedom to marry who we love. These are real things, actual behaviors that affect how people are allowed to live (or not) their lives. In exchange Republicans give us things like the "freedom to fail", which apparently includes the freedom to go bankrupt if you get sick or even lose your job and the freedom to plunge to an untimely death when the bridge we're on collapses because Republicans thought it more necessary to build the 2nd Great Wall of China on our Southern border instead of maintaining our infrastructure. Oh, and additionally Republicans are very concerned about protecting us from people who have come here in fear of their lives and are generally asking no more than to work hard and help us all make lots of money while meanwhile allowing right wing madmen their sacred liberty to randomly massacre great numbers of us for no reason whatsoever

 

Well, yes the problem of Coronavirus in Africa and India is a bad one. But we can't send the vaccines to these poverty-stricken countries. The drug companies raised a big stink about not helping them because there's no profit in it.

 

They're handing them out for free in the US.
Seems like profit really isn't the issue.

Are you saying government can't pay for people in other impoverished Third World countries to get the vaccines, the same way they are paying for their own citizens to get vaccines?

It would seem to me, if the domestic market is saturated, it might make more sense to look abroad for people who actually want it.

And it is totally ridiculous to be giving it to teens in the US, especially teens who don't want it.
Meanwhile, people in terrible health who are desperate for the vaccine languish away in India.

 

Well, here in the USA, the government is paying for the vaccines so that its citizens can get them for free.

The only way the third-world nations are going to get the vaccines is if the USA Federal government purchases the vaccines and donates them to other countries. I'm under the impression that Biden is actually doing that.

 

If you want to really profit, get a government contract. Taxpayers are paying Pharma for the shots.