Power Generation Problems Down Under

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Jack Hays, Mar 3, 2023.

  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    First para sums it up
    https://www.theguardian.com/austral...caps-to-the-suspension-of-electricity-trading
     
  2. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  3. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  4. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    So multiple causes... The problem of coal is it is expensive and polluting (duh). Electricity and wind are not 24/7.

    The solution obviously lies in developing much larger storage capacities and...

    ...learning how to intelligently manage the challenges of diverse and changing sources of electricity. Which we are getting better at.

    Yea of little faith wanting to go back to the fossil-fuel dominated era. Sad
     
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  5. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Translation: "I like to Cherry pick"

    It's ok, we know.
     
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  6. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Change is difficult. And sometimes stressful. This can be particularly so for older people, who are naturally suspicious of change and cautious.
     
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  7. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Here come the troops:

    “The Nem has a strong pipeline of proposed generation and storage projects, totalling three times today’s generation capacity, with large-scale solar, wind and batteries accounting for 86%,” Westerman said. “Investment in firming generation, such as pumped hydro, gas* and long-duration batteries, is critical to complement our growing fleet of weather-dependent renewable generation to meet electricity demand without coal generation.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/austral...wable-projects-lag-behind-coal-plant-closures


    *Note that some solutions still include fossil fuel power base - albeit a more efficient, less polluting, form.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2023
  8. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Apparently Australia is about to get a Vanadium battery “giga factory”

    https://www.energy-storage.news/van...greement-to-develop-gigafactory-in-australia/
    upload_2023-3-15_15-53-17.jpeg

    https://cosmosmagazine.com/technology/vanadium-flow-batteries/
     
  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Not only that but I, unlike others, read past the first paragraph

    PS read my sig
     
  10. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I wish I had a dollar for every time I used your own source against you.

    You clearly didn't read the following one.


    While tracing Mileva Einstein-Maric’s life story, Trbuhovic-Gjuric argued, often without source citation or solid evidence, that Maric was a brilliant mathematician who surpassed Einstein in mathematics, if not physics.

    But two of the speakers, both of whom were without any prior work on Einstein studies, seized upon the opportunity to create a full-scale interpretation of Maric and her scientific relationship with Einstein for English-speaking audiences.

    But at the same time, on closer examination, Einstein scholars have generally rejected most of this story on the basis of the available documentary evidence. As the physics historian Alberto Martínez wrote, “I want her to be the secret collaborator. But we should set aside our speculative preferences and instead look at the evidence.”
     
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  11. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which means all China needs to do to cripple your country is just stop selling you solar panels.
     
  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I read that

    Guess what? I don’t watch idiots like Tucker Carlson who dumbs down content to only one side. I can actually understand and use sources that are accurate even if that shows more than one side

    How can I accept and post sources that may or may not contain conflicting information

    BECAUSE I AM NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORISING IDIOT AND CAN COPE WITH CONFLICTING INFORMATION

    Shakes head. This is what you get from people focussed on a monochromatic world view

    PS read my sig
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2023
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  13. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm not sure how seriously you want to discuss this but don't know about cripple. We would have to find alternative manufacturers.

    Something to note is China would be crippled without steel and coal. And furthermore, the entire world has co-dependancy with China. Yank them out and the whole world is in deep doo-doos, including China. It ain't Ukraine.
     
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  14. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    With 90% of solar panels made there I'd say finding an alternate source would be improbable.

    Of course it's not just that, and not just Australia.

    Germany's green energy fiasco has led to all kinds of unintended consequences, including driving Russia and China closer. Between Indonesia, Russia, and North Korea, China has all the fuel it needs now.

    The western nations would be crippled. Not China.
     
  15. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LoL you thought Einstein's wife "formulated his most famous hypothesis".

    Then you tried to back that statement up with a source (that you clearly didn't read) that contradicted and even made fun of the idea.

    But sure. You planned it all along.
     
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  16. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Actually, the opposite is true. What true believers don't like is that some of us won't be bound by the catechism.
     
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  17. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    I suspect I have had more adventures in my life than you have had or will have.
     
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  18. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The solution is nuclear power.
     
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  19. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    bingo
     
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  20. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Plus I don't think at least one of them even knows what it means.
     
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  21. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Australian renewable energy transition. Part 3

    Posted on March 14, 2023 by curryja | 29 comments
    by Chris Morris and Planning Engineer (Russ Schussler)

    Technically, what are wind and solar doing to South Australia’s grid? And why is South Australia’s electricity so expensive?

    Continue reading →
    This post provides details about the extra services and functions a grid provides and how the grid in Australia is being impacted by the increasing penetration of wind and solar generation. And how this makes Australia’s electric power so expensive. . . .
    Conclusions

    The above is a simplified explanation of what is needed for reliable grid operation. Proponents of renewable energy do not want to discuss concerns of this sort, particularly the costs involved. When forced to address these issues, they rely on magical thinking, advocating for technologies that either do not yet exist or have not yet been proven to work reliably on a grid. The known solutions are expensive, but the renewable sector doesn’t want to pay for them – their mantra remains that renewables are cheaper than fossil fuels so the others should pay for them – hiding the expense. Add in the costs from the needed system support requirements described above, then renewables are significantly more expensive (and less reliable) than conventional generation. The extra costs of renewables support are being paid for a deteriorating quality of electricity supply. That is why there is a new industry adage –

    Cheap renewables are very expensive.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2023
  22. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    You were adventurous in your younger years? No doubt.

    I have noticed most deniers are getting a bit grey around the temples.

    Coincidence?
     
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  23. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    I actually think there is a place for modest nuclear power in Australia. We are swinging towards a nuclear industry (with training and skill sets) with the nuclear submarines.

    Certainly no shortage of places to put the waste.

    It will be interesting if energy storage solutions mitigate the need for much in the way of nuclear power, though.

    In addition (though you're not really up for much into debate here), hopefully you noticed we are retaining gas powered power stations.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2023
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  24. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sounds like a coal driven mantra to me.

    Unlike the whiteheaded folk, I am confident we will find ways to manage & distribute the enormous amounts of excess electricity that renewals cheaply provide lol. And this "problem" will even get worse in the future. Even cheaper renewables and even more abundance of energy. Oh what will we do with it all!!:frustrated:
     
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  25. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    My climate skepticism goes back almost 30 years.
     

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