Pro-Russian thread

Soviet Union was not worse than Yeltsin's Russia. Actually the salary in collective farms in 30 - 40s was charged by so-called workdays. Depending on quantity of the made norms collective farmers had the share in the crop. They could take this share by natural products or by money depending on his desire. But if to take money this share was paid for low state procurement prices. But it was possible independently to sell the product in the market under higher prices. This is why peasants preferred to take natural products. At 1956 was published the decision of the Central Committee of the CPSU and Council of Ministers of the USSR which in part changed the form of a payment of collective farmers. Since 1959 is established the guaranteed minimum with a monetary payment. In other words collective farmers get the salary in part by money and in part by natural product. Since 1966 all collective farms were completely transferred to the monetary salary. So solve yourself was it good or bad to get the salary by a natural product. This is why it is very difficultly to count up the salary in collective farms of that time. But do not overlook what every country family always had own economy which gave the additional income. Probably your female friend was born in poor collective farm and poor family. Usually rural relatives helped city relatives by products. It always was considered as the advantage for the townspeople to have the grandmother in village.

So you dont know the answer. And your questions are similar to the trolling. Next time when you'll want to prove to me something, operate in the next steps.
1. Precisely decide for yourself what is your point of view and what do you want to prove me.
2. Distinctly describe your point of view.
3. Strengthen your point of view by proofs.
4. Search for info yourself.
5. And never inform me news which I know better you. I mean news of this kind.

If you will not follow these steps, I'll regard your posts as the trolling.

 

No, I don’t think so. It was directors of Kolkhozes who decided it.
The family of that friend of mine I wrote about got so little that it was senseless to discuss opportunities of selling it.

No, it is very difficult to count up salary of slaves since their masters never give any numbers on that.

No. I asked you about an average salary in 1962 and you answered something about salaries in 1971. So I just wanted to show that your posts are trolling.

1. I don’t want to prove you anything. I just state my opinion. In the SU people were slaves and for the first 50 years of the communist regime they were paid kopecks for their slavery work.
2. I hope that I did it.
3. What proofs? All mass media in the SU was controlled by communists. Nobody even knows how many people died from hunger in the SU.
4. I don’t search for INFO. I lived in the SU. I was asking if you knew something about life in the SU.
5. How could I know what you know and what not?

I cannot care less what you think about my posts. I don’t even understand what you mean by ‘trolling’. You use words ‘troll’ and ‘trolling’ in every post. What is trolling for you? Saying that communists murdered millions of people? Or that in ‘Kolkhozes’ millions of people died from hunger?

 

I didn’t complained either But you and TheWatchdog had been calling me an idiot and troll for a week so I decided that it is allowed here.

I reported the Administration later to know if comments like ‘Just another whiney Russkie’ is allowed here. I was just curious.
By the way, the only reason why I didn’t leave this forum is that now I have a friend here.

 

By the way, it seems that you 'prove' your crap by numbers from comminists authorities? Of course, they'll 'prove' you that everybody was happy in the SU. I would like to have something from independant ones.

As far as I remember the communists never allowed to say a word about famine in the SU. Do you expect them to tell truth about salaries??

 

The leader of the anti-Communist Quorum

If all Russians would have been like you, Adolf Hitler probably could have marched to Vladivostok without a single shot ...

 

I think it is no necessity for you to compose these fairy tales and to tell them to me as almost all Soviet townspeople had relatives in village. High taxes and very heavy position of peasants was during WWII, but not in 60s. The statistics shows it well

When you use the word slave do not overlook to be interested in the meaning of the words slave and slavery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

I am not going to spend my time in searches of statistics for you on the net. I repeat again - if you declare something, work to search proofs of your point of view yourself. As the help I can give you this link, http://ihistorian.livejournal.com/ there are a lot of statistics here on the first page. Rummage here and search for the necessary figures yourself. OK?

My five points are not the subject to commenting. These are conditions on which I talk with you as with the normal person.

Any unsubstantiated statement is trolling for me. For example the unsubstantiated statement that communists murdered millions of people, or that in 'Kolkhozes' millions of people died from hunger, is trolling. I also can unsubstantiated declare that jamesthebond has horns and hoofs and you try to prove me that this is lie. If you speak something give proofs. Argument of the kind - "one babushka has told" is not a proof.

 

I can speak about abstract idiots, but I never name with this word any concrete users of this forum. So do not compose the new fairy tale. As to the trolling - sometimes the good troll is necessary for the forum otherwise it becomes very boringly here. But your posts are really similar to the trolling, if you want to be perceived as the normal person, write normal posts.

 

If you have better statistics, show us! What's the problem?

 

Statistics? What should facts be good for if someone has an opinion

 

I think that your ‘statistics’ is a fairy tale, that is, communist propaganda. What that friend of mine told me is FACTS. It doesn’t mean that you cannot give some other facts.

Slaves are not allowed to have any private property. It was written for all soviet people in soviet laws, but peasants were not allowed to have passports in addition . So they were classical serf slaves. Of course, one can say that serfs under Czars were happy and prosperous.

Let me explain you one thing. There are facts. For example, Nazi camps are the fact. But it is important what different people think of it. So by asking a person about numbers of people who died in Hitler’s or Stalin’s camps you can say much about their political position.
For example, I asked you about an average salary of Soviet peasants in 1961. You answered in Russian about statistics of 1971. Then you said that it is difficult to have the statistics, but the peasants lived very good. And it says much about YOUR position. As well as, for example, if a person says that slaves in America in XIX lived very good and slavery was very profitable for them. Whatever such a person would say about ‘trolling’ I think that people can see his position clearly.
So when I ask you something it is not necessary that you are my only hope to have some information.

As for links in Russian they are pointless for readers of this forum and pointless for me since I don’t know this guy. Why I have to trust what he writes in his blog?? Maybe he is a communist. It is pointless to ask a Nazi about statistics in Nazi death camps.

Jesus, why do you think that it is any business of mine???? The last things in the world I am interested in are your conditions and what do you think of me as a person. I comment anything I like. If your ‘points’ are not a subject for commenting you can post them in your private blog or something, I think.

It is your problem only.

Again, I don’t know what you call trolling.

As for millions of people:

1. The Russian Duma stated that it was 7 millions of people who died from hunger in the Soviet Union. Should I give you a link? By the way, what do YOU think of it? Are there anybody who died from hunger in 1930s?

2. I thought that a million of executed people in 1937-38 is a proven fact. What do you think? How many people were killed that time?
As for Stalin’s camps I don’t know numbers. Are there any statistics on this? A relative of mine was a NKVD colonel. He told me that they executed people from dawn to dusk. Have you ever heard of it?

It is impossible in the Net to prove that somebody hasn’t horns and hooves. So I would answer that it is possible that I have some. As for victims of communist there are different opinions.
For example, as far as I know anybody who had said something about famine in the Ukraine in Soviet Union would have been executed by the NKVD. Or I am wrong? So it is not easy to have statistics about it. But you can easily state your opinion and answer how many people died or say that nobody died at all.

Babushka is a headscarf and is not able to talk. As for people I knew personally, of course their experience is much more trustworthy for me than communist ‘statistics’. When you said about salaries of your relatives it is also not ‘babushkas’ but real people and theirs experience is trustworthy for me too.

 

So you have no counterarguments.

In other words you declare that Soviet peasants had no any property, were someone's the property. Did not have personal freedom and could be sold by the owner to other owner. Proofs please?

This guy is historian my university friend and the classmate. Almost every day he spends time in archives and libraries to support this blog. By the way the statistics are from well-known statistical directories. If you think that you can create more professional blog. You may try.

You have a right to accept or to not accept my conditions. And I have a right to think all that I want and see.

Apparently this is not only my problem. You are completely ignored by all Russian users of this forum. Dont you see?. Me and TheWatchDog talk to you only. Oh yes all Russian users are evil communists of course. Nobody can understand vulnerable soul of Russian nationalist.

I already several times gave statistics of Stalin's victims at this forum. If you will read my posts written a half-year and a year ago you will find these figures. But in this concrete case I assert nothing. This is you who speaks it about millions victims. The word millions is loose concept. So give figures, facts and sources of your information.

I believe you.

Babushka is one of the most known Russian words in the line with words vodka and matreshka. So do not worry the majority understands its meaning.

 

There was no need to sell them. Every kolkhoznik were not allowed to leave his master – the director of a kolkhloz. The latter had a right to send him in a camp any time.

OK, if you think that I can trust him I’ll have a look at his blog.

I didn’t even think about accepting or not accepting your conditions. I don’t care about them at all.

Russian users of this forum??? Who are they, may I ask? The guys who post copies of articles?

I am too lazy to do it. I’ll ask you about them again and if you like you’ll repeat the figures.

No, it is official numbers. The Duma stated that there were 7 millions victims of the famine in 30-s.

The majority of the forum never read your posts. Or you can show me anybody commenting them?

 

Me, for instance ...

 

You again write crap without any proofs. And you want Me to talk to you normally?

You can trust or dont trust. But in any case he is the historian, you are nothing.

So you recognize I have the right to think you are the troll or not the troll depending on character of your posts. This is not insult, this is an ascertaining of the fact. Notice! This is your choice, not mine.

Those guys who are not jamesthebond.

I have noticed it already.

Visit Bzhezinsky site. You will find there more terrible figures. http://necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm Wow horror!

The majority of users of this forum consists of several tens thousands persons. Tens thousands do not read my posts. I am sure they are occupied with reading of your posts.

 

Americans have a pathetic ignorance of other cultures. It is too bad Russia still does not have Alaska, then they would be part of three continents.

 

Americans have a pathetic ignorance of other cultures. It is too bad Russia still does not have Alaska, then they would be part of three continents.

 

Perhaps materially, but it is a country utterly without a soul or purpose.

 

Churchill had very little influence by the time of the Yalta Conference, and FDR was an ill man, deteriorating away, he would die in April 1945, prior to seeing the end of World War II. Stalin agreed on the UN, because he got the Soviet Union a seat on the in-Security Council. He also agreed not to infiltrate Greece or Turkey, but went ahead with it with the Soviet Army at the end of the war. Truman threatened him with a shooting war, and although Stalin had the plans in 1945 for the atomic bomb, he didn't know America had used them up. Would have taken a year or two to develop more. Truman's threat worked, Soviet troops withdrew from Greece and Turkish territory, but Stalin owned Poland and the Central Slavic - Baltic states, his massive army was standing on the turf.

Also, because of the desperate and suicidal fighting that took place in the Pacific by the Marines on Iwo Jima, and the Marines and Army on Okinawa, where they destroyed two full Japanese armies, both the first of Japan's home territory invaded during the war, Roosevelt was desperate to get a commitment from Stalin to attack Japan as soon as Germany surrendered. Stalin kept the promise, half arsed, invading Manchuria two weeks before the Japanese surrender, when the atomic bombs had made it unnecessary for Soviet involvement.............

 

It is important & useful to keep Russia as seen as a threat to the West, even if they really are not!!!

Russians are practically unable to threaten the West in any major military way & as far I see it, they don't really wish to threaten the West. They do wish to protect themselves from certain kinds of influences from the West.

Of course all nations do want to "get ahead" and Russia are no different from many others in that respect.

I was in in my early 20's when the Berlin wall came down & there was talk of a peace dividend & the hope that we could all get along better than we had done in the past. I was pretty happy & confident that we could.
Still knowing that Countries will still be competitive & national opinions would quite likely take precedence. Even so It might still be possible to trade with each other & respect each other just enough that we don't want to kill each other