Public Debt above 200% of GDP, Is Japan Economy in Ponzi Territory now yet?

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Bic_Cherry, Jan 23, 2023.

  1. Bic_Cherry

    Bic_Cherry Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Public Debt above 200% of GDP, Is Japan Economy in Ponzi Territory now yet?

    Japan Economy has how many zombie / Ponzi companies for a country with public debt at 200% GDP?

    When do u think the debt bubble will burst, just like US property prices of 2008, Ponzi values, nobody wants to buy the asset cos all values were obviously hyper inflated once the ruse was revealed.

    Japan bank (BOJ) governor already warns of very low funds/ negative current account budget for over 10 years.

    So next major disaster could be a tipping point for Japanese finances. The Japanese people will stoically accept high inflation along with retrenchments as well. The most elderly people bravely starve themselves to death, to save gahmen expenditure and so that their pension companies don't go bankrupt, so the younger elderly can enjoy at least a few retirement years, before they too must harikiri/ self sacrifice/ suicide after just a few years of retirement?

    What do u think will be the social/ economic outcome?

    Government hospitals stop treatment of elderly above a certain age level if there is a shortage of government funds? What will be the outcome?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/23/jap...ances-as-boj-struggles-to-contain-yields.html
     
    kazenatsu and DennisTate like this.
  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    31,659
    Likes Received:
    2,631
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    All that I can really say is that I have been driving a Honda for over a decade.......
    and I believe that Japan is all set up for the most astonishing economic boom of virtually any nation on earth........... but America and Israel will have an even greater economic miracle soon in many ways......

    Honda has been producing Honda Civics here in Canada for many years........

    and that was a rather brilliant move on their part.......
     
  3. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    7,760
    Likes Received:
    3,807
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The financial sector is pretty accustomed to Japan monetizing its debt. I am not really sure if there is a tipping point as long as they keep the car between the curbs.
     
  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,682
    Likes Received:
    11,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think high government debt always creates the risk of an economic bubble that could collapse. It might contribute to a bursting bubble caused by other factors. This would lead to a recession.
    Someone is ultimately going to have to pay that money. What happens when the people finally realize that they have to start paying it? When the debt becomes so big it becomes a necessity to start dealing with it. It's going to suddenly move money out of the economy. Wealth that people thought they had (in the form of government debt) will only be able to continue to exist if taxes start being taken out of the economy to pay them (meaning either higher taxes or lower government spending in other areas). When you suddenly take money out of the economy, it is going to cause problems. People thought wealth was going to continue to flow, when it is not possible for that to happen. A lot of the wealth that individuals have saved in the Japanese economy is really in the form of debt to themselves.

    With gradually accumulating medium amounts of government debt, usually what happens is a lot of that debt gets turned into the form of inflation. Government spending more money by borrowing it can be equivalent to inflation. Well, at least partially.

    The thing is, anyone could be able to see this logically. But people do not feel it in their day to day lives. And current spending levels are based on how people feel in their individual lives and what they can see in their individual household finances. It's hard to take into account the existence of some extraneous government finances that will end up affecting them. Government spending in Japan makes up 42.52 percent of GDP. If there is any significant decrease in government spending, if the government has to start paying down debts, it is going to have some big reverberations in the country's economy.
     
  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,682
    Likes Received:
    11,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Japan's economy has been in the slow process of deflation ever since their "lost decade".
    This hasn't been entirely a bad thing. Land and housing prices have been going down (after being adjusted for inflation), making things more affordable to younger people, although a very large proportion of the wealth still rests in the hands of the older generation.

    I doubt anything in Japan can really "pop" now, but it will just lead to a slow continued process, already in the direction of what has been happening. It will put a hamper on Japanese economic growth. There will be inflationary pressures, but these will also be partly cancelled out by the continued deflation of the economy. Although lowering population could also add additional inflationary pressure.

    Due to the nature of how debt spirals tend to unwind, with worried investors and spikes in interest rates, it is also very possible that some of this inflation could be rather sudden. (The thing is, how government debt works, the government periodically has to renew the debt, finding new lenders to pay the previous lenders. If lenders fear there is a risk the government may not be able to pay or a risk of inflation, they will have to be paid higher interest rates. This can put a big burden on the government's budget)
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2023
  6. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    26,505
    Likes Received:
    7,495
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

Share This Page