Read It: Here's the Supreme Court's Basis for Overruling Roe and Casey

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by XXJefferson#51, Jun 24, 2022.

  1. Cybred

    Cybred Well-Known Member

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    Nope, still a method, that you don't like it is irrelevant. By the way classic liberals are pro-choice.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
  2. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but this means that the abortion laws are decided at state level instead of federal level?

    Lots will disagree, but shouldn't it be decided at the PREGNANT WOMAN'S LEVEL?

    Also, do you think if someone really wants an abortion, they won't just go to a state where they can have one done?

    What is the point? To make them drive further for an abortion?

    It sounds to me like we will still end up with a dead baby PLUS a bigger carbon foot print for unnecessary travel.

    The RIGHT is WRONG on this abortion thing.

    Republicans need to think BIGGER and not just think FOR THE MOMENT.

    This is like the nail in the coffin for the GOP. It makes the left look like the "HERO OF WOMEN". That's great and all that you want to be the "HERO OF BABIES" but guess what, babies do not VOTE.

    If we pass legislation that turns women away from GOP and the LEFT becomes the LAW OF THE LAND, we will have a lot more problems than dead babies. There will be lots more dead people PERIOD, due to the left's support of weak law enforcement.

    PLEASE THINK BIGGER!

    None of these policies save a baby's life, they just make an abortion harder to get.
     
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  3. LibDave

    LibDave Newly Registered

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    Nothing about the SCOTUS decision precludes decisions at the "PREGNANT WOMAN'S LEVEL". As you pointed out, women will be free to travel to a state like California and not only get an abortion, but have it paid for by the state of California, transportation and all. You claim the "RIGHT is WRONG" but this hasn't resulted from the right enacting anything. This was a SCOTUS ruling and it happens to be correct. When Roe V Wade was decided the SCOTUS at the time did so by "making up" a Constitutional right where none existed. Plain and simple. You have to admit it is a complete stretch to claim the pursuit of happiness and right to privacy clauses define a Constitutional right to an abortion every bit on par with the 1st Amendment. It was a classic case of legislation from the bench. It just isn't a Constitutionally mandated right.

    That said, the recent ruling by the SCOTUS to overturn Roe V. Wade as a Constitutional right has not in any way made abortions illegal. It merely clarifies this is not the jurisdiction of the Federal Government and there is no Constitutional Right to an abortion on par with freedom of speech or others specifically delineated. The federal government has no say in regard to the legalization of abortions, it is specifically a power reserved to the STATES and The People. This makes it all the more surprising for this to have become an issue in the upcoming elections on the Federal Level. The DNC is being completely disingenuous in raising funds for Federal candidates on the basis of the abortion issue. Anyone who so donates is quite frankly not too bright. They should instead be applying their contributions at a more local level. After all, the legality of abortion will be decided by their state legislators, not their senators and representatives in the US Congress. Federal elected officials have no say as to abortion laws. That was the whole point of the ruling... to clarify it is not a right defined in the US Constitution and therefore reserved to the States and The People. A ruling which is obviously correct. Abortion is never mentioned in the US Constitution.

    So don't fret. Nothing has really changed. Just call your state elected officials to lobby your position instead of your federal Senators and Reps.

    This wasn't a pro-life maneuver by the Right-To-Life folks to outlaw abortion. They did not organize and pass some Draconian change in the law. It was just the Supreme court addressing issues which were brought about when the earlier court went beyond their mandate and "made up" a Constitutional right which later courts could not substantiate with the text of the Constitution. This occurred on several occasions requiring later courts to make up their own legislation with little support other than to reference Roe instead of the Constitution. It is a clear sign to the courts when this occurs that the ruling (in this case Roe V Wade) was a judicial overstep.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
  4. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe you, but it looks like I drank that kool-aid and I associate with the right. Can you imagine what democrats are thinking if I thought that?
     
  5. LibDave

    LibDave Newly Registered

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    Yup. It has been puzzling me. I understand the DNC's use of this as a fundraising gimmick. They are taking advantage of people who didn't take the time to understand what occurred and actually read the decision. The DNC purposefully put out disinformation to mislead potential donors. I get it. I know how politicians work. It isn't about the truth but what the electorate THINKS is the truth.

    I am pro-choice (to an extent) like 75% of Americans who believe it should be the woman's decision up to a point. 15-16 weeks is plenty of time to resolve that decision. But delivering a fully gestated infants head, then driving an egg-beater spike into the base of the brain, only to deliver what would otherwise have been a viable citizen minutes later is just beyond what a civilized society can condone. It is completely within a compassionate societies purview to place restrictions on what is tolerable and require such decisions be made in a timely manner. In fact, this is the law in virtually all 50 states save a few outliers. California, NY and several other far-left states allow partial birth abortions up until the cord is cut. It is likely several of the Bible Belt states will make abortions completely illegal. But like you said, for the most part I'm sure women will just travel out-of-state. So, it really isn't the major deal many are making it out to be. It is just a fundraising ploy and nothing more.
     
  6. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is pretty much my same exact view on abortion. thanks for clearing up the SC thing. I feel a little stupid now but I'm better for it now

    Thanks again
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
  7. LibDave

    LibDave Newly Registered

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    Anytime. And I would encourage you to investigate the candidates for your state legislature more closely for their stance on upcoming state abortion laws. As I said, one thing the SCOTUS ruling DID DO was throw abortion law back to the states. When they did so, this meant after a 6-month period any state law on the books will be enforceable once again. In other words, let's say you live in Mississippi which had a law preventing abortions back in like 1956. This law was in effect in 1970 and became null after Roe V Wade. Obviously, Mississippi made no further changes post Roe V Wade because Roe precluded it. So, in 6-months, this law will automatically become Statute law in Mississippi unless the new legislature updates the law. This is the case in all 50 states. What you can expect is for almost all 50 states to consider updated abortion bills through the state legislatures shortly after the November elections. In the vast majority of cases these will just be a restatement of the existing consensus where abortions are legal up to 15-16 weeks of gestation. But check for information for your state. Not sure where you live but since you are concerned, this is the best use of your time and money.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
  8. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you are taking woman's bodies to be literal houses! :roflol:
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2022
  9. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    Nope. You are simply being disingenuous.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2022
  10. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    You have made precisely ZERO attempts to justify how your 'castle doctrine' argument applies here, I guess that means because you no longer stand by it!
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2022
  11. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    The very definition of it is my argument.
     
  12. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    The very definition of 'castle doctrine' has nothing to do with women's bodies. That is the problem that you have!
     
  13. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    I argue differently, but for the purpose of this discussion, its up to the people.
    If your state votes to support the castle doctrine/stand your ground laws, Its hypocritical to also have anti abortion laws.
    In the end, people are going to vote their circumstance....MAGA supporters are authoritarians. Their vision of "great again" does not support what America has progressed and continues progressing to.
    It requires regression. My minds been changed about the second amendment,(I now support it) but in order to stay consistent, that means freedom cant be restricted. Liberty for all who respect it and end prohibition. Banning makes the situation worse...attempts at banning guns has lead us to about 1 million gun sales annually. What do you think attempts to ban abortion will drive up the rates to?
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2022
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  14. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Why though, if one has absolutely nothing to do with the other?

    Well that's just your personal opinion, which differs to theirs, because your "vision" differs to their vision. Simple.

    How would mere ATTEMPTS to ban abortion drive up abortion rates?
     
  15. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Miss another reply?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2022
  16. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    Nope.

    The below former Trump supporter pretty much sums it up for me, Have at it with him if you continue to disagree.

    Sorry for the ping, but your response could frame my argument to the above poster.
     
  17. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    You have no answer to my questions?
     
  18. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    Your first question has been answered, you just fail to comprehend it.
    Attempting to Ban abortion does/will not prevent liberty. Laws are the consequence for violating anothers liberty, and a fetus/dick/finger/anything inside of you violates yours if it isnt invited any longer than you wish.

    It drives up the rates, the same way attempts to ban guns did.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2022
  19. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Then you will be able to link to your post in which you answered it.

    Laws are the consequence for violating anothers liberty, or punishment?

    Why do you think that attempts to ban guns drove up the rates of gun purchases?
     
  20. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    The same reason prohibition caused more people to drink. Bans don't work.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2022
  21. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    And what reason is that?
     
  22. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    Bans against liberty don't work.
     
  23. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but you went further than that, saying that the rates of certain activities go UP when bans are implemented or plans to ban are made. Am I correct about what you said?
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2022
  24. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure, nothing iv written contradicts that assessment. Why would you assume it's not correct?
     
  25. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    The only activity that you are correct about is gun purchases, which goes up with new guns laws. This is supported by the evidence. The same cannot be said for abortion. When has that ever gone up in response to abortion law?
     

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