Recently came out as a trans woman - AMA

That I'm aware of, I've met or known 7 "trans" individuals and none of them fooled me. I even accidentally called several of them their biological pronoun (sometimes before I knew they were trans) and they corrected me. I've only seen a handful of pictures or videos online that would fool me and maybe only heard two individuals' voices that would have fooled me. We intuitively know the sex of others and that's how we know to say "thank you sir" or "thank you ma'am" instinctively, without thought... Even with ambiguous appearing individuals. When our guard is down, we accidentally call "trans" individuals by their actual biological pronouns. It's innate.

Until evolutionary pressures force biological change in men and women that bring them closer to each other in biology (testosterone levels, brain structure, brain chemicals, etc), general differences in behavior and interests won't change much. However, if this somehow miraculously were to change, I agree that GD would likely shift into some other type of identity problem. And the cure still would be for the brain not the body.

 

Thank you for more thoughtful questions and your overall caring and genuine approach. I appreciate it.

Is there anything positive you think or feel about your natural body? Also, is your body the only thing about yourself that you are this unhappy about?

Oh, absolutely. When I was young, I was working through a good amount of depression. It resulted in me not really caring for my body or health; one result was I was quite overweight. At one point I was a little shy of 300lbs. I’ve gotten through that depression and take much better care of myself now. It’s left me with a few features I enjoy about my body like thick thighs, a round butt, good fat/muscle distribution across my chest, and even a soft belly. I didn’t used to like these things, primarily because they did seem quite feminine, but now I like them very much; for obvious reasons.
Other things I’d say I’m unhappy about is the expectations of how I should behave within society. As I’ve said before, I don’t really feel comfortable acting in a masculine role. I feel it has lead me to be quicker to anger and be more aggressive. I’m not beating people ip in the streets or anything, but I often feel bad about how I’ve handled a social interaction. Yelling at other drivers when they do something silly in traffic would be a good example. Since coming out and embracing more a feminine role, I’ve found a lot more peace. I’m calmer than I ever have been. I have far fewer interactions that I look back on and regret.

Gender abolition:

For me it’s just something I think on and wonder. I can’t say I’ve put that much thought into it.


Can you elaborate on this? First of all, I think all feelings are valid in that there is always a logical reason we've developed them.

Second, what do you understand your feelings to mean?

I understand them to mean that I identify as a woman. That my desire to be feminine is not something I can achieve as a man that presents in feminine ways.
I appreciate your view on validity. I don’t think they’re commonly held by those who oppose transition. Many people seek to invalidate trans people’s feelings, and even identity as a whole, as fetish or delusion.

Are you saying some parts of you has been resisting wanting to change your body?

Yes, but only for sake of external factors. Social pressures from friends and family, potential mistreatment from society at large, etc.
If I could somehow go to sleep and wake up in a world where I am a biological female, and had never been a male, I would have likely done it at the earliest age I was aware of gender.

Indeed, it sounds like you've thought about this quite a bit. I'm not sure that's the case for all people though. Also, how much work have you done with the help of a mental health practitioner?

When I came out as gay at 23, my parents tried to sign me up for conversion therapy. I had researched it enough to know that it was not effective and that I didn’t want to be converted anyway. That was actually one of the reasons I waited to be financially independent before coming out. My parents insisted on seeing a pastor they knew who also worked as a therapist. I agreed because I wanted to maintain my relationship with them.
I attended sessions for about six weeks before we ran out of things to talk about. The therapist felt I didn’t have any real issues to work out aside from my relationship with my family. We talked about my previous depression, but he didn’t feel that it was impacting my day to day life. By his account, my mental health was fine, I just happened to be gay.
I feel similar now to how I did before going into those sessions. Could I have used therapy 5-6 years ago as I was figuring this all out? Maybe. I don’t think I really need it now though.

 

Sure. There are exceptions to every rule.

 

Well I did say traditional. Living in the time and location that I do; that brings forward a very clear image, at least for me. We all engage through the lens of our life experiences. That includes me.

 

For me it’s just something I think on and wonder. I can’t say I’ve put that much thought into it.

 

My question when looking at studies that just equate the suicides with those who are transgender, is are they accounting for other causes of suicide? Even those transgender people who are no longer suffering from GD can still commit suicide due to the harassment and rejection from family and such, not to mention that there are plenty of things that a cis gender person would commit suicide over, that a trans gender person would also commit suicide. So simply pointing out that you have 10 transgender people (numbers for example's sake) 5 of which had surgery, and all committed suicide, doesn't show that the suicide was from being transgender.

Maybe this is an issue of communications, but the way you write about mental health issue, it comes across as if this were equivalent to PTSD or something that is induced and can be worked through. Being transgender is more akin to having autism or OCD or other disorders of the brain, which are physical in nature. These things can't be cured. So we have to go with what works best to alleviate the symptoms. As of right now, what works best for GD is transitioning, assuming no other underlying conditions.

This here is part of the problem. This implies that simply because you do not agree with the treatment, that any professional that does is unethical. You're making the implication that I, and anyone who disagrees with you, only have an opinion and that your position is fact not opinion.

I think we are in agreement on this point at least, although I would say "other" treatments as opposed to "better". Better is always a subjective value. We do need research that will find treatments so that patients will have a true choice. But right now the ones trying the most are those who would rather do more harm than good, and just "make it go away" by any means necessary. Now keep in mind that I am not including you in that grouping. You are expressing a desire for something that would allow the adjusting of the self to the body, instead of the current adjusting the body to the self, but I have yet to see you pusing anything that most opponents push, including things like conversion therapy. So you at least seem to recognize that those claimed working methods don't actually work.

 

No it's not the body that is the problem. It is the conflict of the brain vs the body. But this isn't an issue of choice or induced change. The brain developed the way it did. So then which developed the "right" way, the brain or the body? Both? Neither? One over the other? Is there even actually a right way? Regardless, we have already tried methods that are supposed to target the brain, and they have failed. So that leaves two choices; treat the condition via the body, or leave the person to suffer. Think about this. We have had transgender people for far longer than we have had the current treatments for them. Before we got to the point where we've been more open and accepting of them, they were told that they were wrong or sick or had a disorder or whatever, and the treatment was to get them to be their biological sex. If such a treatment could work, don't you think that we would have already developed it and had it as part of standard treatment long before we got to the current situation?

 

Liking dolls isn't really a male or female thing. I agree that it could be an innate thing. But society tries to push the idea that if you like a doll, you must be feminine, even though that is a historically recent things. As an aside, one of my favorite comics was one with two dads talking, one asking if the other should be letting his son play with dolls. "after all what if he..." "What?" asks the other dad, "practices at becoming a good father?" as the view shifts to show the two men holding and bottle feeding babies. And there is so much more that society is equating as male or female that really isn't. I agree that there are those who feel that being a woman means following what the current stereotypes are for that sex (same for being a man). But given all the ones who don't bother to follow those stereotypes, but still have a need to transition, that tells me it isn't just about bucking the stereotype norms for your sex

It's pointing out that there have been falsehoods put out about humans from time immemorial. That we have believe, collectively in many things that aren't actually true, such as certain roles and or abilities based upon sex.

The problem is that there is no dishonesty going on about the biological reality. With the caveat that there are always exception, transgenders are not claiming that they are of the opposite sex, or that they can actually change sex. Poor wording use does get in the way of making that point clear with some, and it frustrates the hell out of me. You asked about what some women doing things men do has to do with it. This is exactly it. It used to be claimed that it was a biological reality that women could not do certain things that men could do. And yet that has been proven wrong. So it stands to reason that this could be another "reality" that isn't as real as it was previously though.

Not in the least. Pronouns are meant to represent nouns. Given that we use gendered pronouns on objects that don't have a sex or are not alive, yet alone just the pronoun "it", shows that to be true. Pronouns are subject to lingual factors, not biological factors. Language is as society makes it out to be. It's why words and definitions change over time, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.

Which is not the claim. It's a red herring that opponents don't want to let go of. Even Dave will tell you he won't be changing his sex. At best, assuming the full GCS at some point, he changes his phenotype.

That also works the other way.

 

Key words. The question is how many were you not aware of. Given the communities I work and associate with, I have had far more trans people that I have knowingly interacted with, than you have had. Some I was unaware that they were transitioned until they told me later. Other I could tell from the beginning. There are even some that I have been with since before they came out and started treatments, that I have a hard time remembering that they were not anywhere near to what they are now.

Given the number of times that I have called a cis gender person by the wrong pronoun, I find little evidence that it is innate. Again, you have probably interacted with some transgender individuals and not realized it and called them by their gender pronouns and not their sex pronouns.

The label or the idea might change, but it would still be a incongruity between the body and the self that would need treatment.

 

That's rather like saying that you are the exception to the rule. And while accurate in a statistical sense, ignoring the gender based orientation people is no different than ignoring those who not cishet.

 

Sadly, I have the type of brain that has dwelt no such this far too much. I do think we can get to a point where one's gender isn't a factor in most areas, save sexual or romantic attractions, and even there, simply viewed as the variety that exist. But I can't see it ever not existing.

 

I didn’t mean to ignore anyone’s preferences or opinions with my phrasing. Maybe the way I put it was a bit clumsy.

 

No problem.

I believe health views are moving more toward recognizing health markers like blood pressure, heart rate, cholesterol, etc. it's less about ones weight or looks and more about overall health. I know too much weight can result in issues too, so it's likely still important to keep that in check. But overall, the message is eat and live healthy and accept your body, because not accepting it can cause stress and more health problems (a vicious cycle). Some people practice things like mindfulness to escape these types of thinking traps.

That's interesting that you are connecting a feminine role with being calmer and less volatile. What do you think it is about the way you think and act when you're in a feminine role that leads to this? How is the think and feeling different?

No worries. I have that much thought into it likely because of my educational background. I don't think most people have the same background as me, so I don't expect everyone to be on the same page there. It is an interesting subject to me though and I see a big push lately in society to try to abolish gender differences, when it's not necessary or even possible without doing harm.

Hopefully I'm not going to offend you here. I have been accused of invalidating in the past. Just because I can understand how you've come to your conclusions and just because I can recognize that your conclusions are valid based on what I know about you and what you've learned in life, doesn't mean I agree that your conclusions might not have error or misunderstanding in them. My basic world view is that as far as we can tell and measure thus far with science, we are all a product of a complex interaction between innate (biological) and external (environmental) forces. As such, you have been exposed to a lot of ideology about gender and it's relationship to being unhappy with one's sex and identity. I'm very aware of the power of ideas to shape ones view of the world and the solutions to life's problems. The idea that someone could be born into the wrong body seems very spiritual to me and it's difficult for us to measure the spiritual world scientifically. If it were a spiritual problem and one believed that, I would recommend seeking out a spiritual healer. However, there have been many other findings that support the idea that the brain is the problem in these issues and not the body. There are high rates of co-occuring mental health disorders especially personality disorders, autism, anxiety, depressive and trauma disorders that often occur among individuals who feel unhappy with their sex and uncomfortable behaving like the opposite sex in their bodies. It's been found that many people who feel this way end up simply being homosexual and struggled with accepting their homosexuality. Additionally, the fact that suicide rates don't decrease after SRS in this population and that mental health rates don't really change either, should be cause for concern. This is really more of an identity crisis/problem dealt with in the brain, not the body. I have seen many of the studies that claim to support a high success rate for blocker, HRT and SRS, but I would warn you to be wary of this because this is a highly political issue, where scientists don't want to study or question things for fear of being labeled a transphobe. If you look at a lot of the studies supporting the idea that the surgery is such a success, they have huge glaring flaws in methodology. Therefore, while I see you're conclusions as valid based on your life experiences, I also see the problems you are struggling with as likely related to some misconceptions in thought and in the way you interpret some of your thoughts and feelings about yourself and your body. Please understand that I'm not saying you are not intelligent or anything like that, because I can see by your responses that you are quite intelligent and thoughtful. I'm just concerned about some of the conclusions you've drawn. I would highly recommend starting to practice mindfulness (this practice is good for anyone), which can really start to help you notice your automatic thoughts internal responses to feelings and thoughts.

That's sounds awful and is so sad to hear that you wish you could just wake up different than the way you are . What have friends and family said? I know you mentioned you were brought up in the church... Did you ever develop a relationship with God?

Did you think you needed it then? It sounds like maybe you are a pretty independent person who likes to figure things out for yourself?

 

My point is that you can't really say it reduces suicidality when it doesn't.

I don't think the evidence supports that GD is as unchangeable and untreatable as a disorder like autism.

I can appreciate that. So, if they know what I know, they're unethical, but if they don't, they're just refusing basic logic and reason. I'm not sure what's worse...

I'm referring to medical professionals and scientists here.

As for the lay person, believe what you want, but once certain information has been shared, I do think there's a responsibility to take an objective look at the data and not an emotional one. I'm not exactly saying one would be ethical if they didn't, but possibly close to it, especially if one intends to take action like supporting politicians or activist groups to support a position.

Conversion therapy as far as I know doesn't work. As far as I've read and from talking to people, sexual attraction is innate. I know that's the case for myself. It at least doesn't feel like I am intentionally controlling my sexual attraction. I have heard of people who have sought out therapy to learn to ignore their sexual attractions and this has had some success, but that is of the patient's choice, not necessarily of society or a parent. But this is the way it is with all counseling. Progress usually isn't made without the client wanting change. My hunch is that conversion therapy got a bad rap because parents were forcing their children to do it. The only problem is it would not work if the children didn't want it to. Not to mention, if the goal of conversion therapy is to change sexual attraction, I don't think that would work. I'm not that familiar with conversion therapy. I am more familiar with counseling.

I don't view conversion therapy as the same thing as providing counseling for an individual who is having an identity problem like GD. I see them as two separate things. Counseling is a client guided process where the patients sets the goals, not the clinician. Clients have been receiving counseling for GD for many years now. My understanding is that it can often help with a lot of co-occuring problems that often leads to a lessening of the GD problem. This isn't to say that a therapist couldn't explore the patient's GD as well, just that it wouldn't have to be the focus for progress to be made. Lately, from what I've read and professionals I've talked to, many counselors don't even dare to discuss their GD with the patient due to the high political and societal heat on the issue and so many agencies pushing simply affirming and not questioning a clients preferred "gender."

So, I'd like to see people experimenting with treatments of all kinds on animals and eventually humans to treat the disorder. I don't know enough about treating the brain to know what could be done there, but I know there have been advances in electric shocks therapy and I wonder if there might be some ultra sound treatment available (I think this should be tried on animals first). I know people have been doing micro dosing with psychedelic substances for mental health and trauma, there have been spiritual and religious approaches for mental health issues, I'd be interested to learn about medications, also perhaps modifying a counseling treatment protocol like DBT to help this specific group, perhaps looking at genetic therapy (if they do that)... I'd like to see lots of things tried and it horrors me to think about them mutilating their bodies as a treatment. It's so sad

Again, I don't think we can do this if we can't stop calling people transphobes who want other approaches to be tried and who are critical of the gender identity ideology.

 

Among how many of these individuals have they found any functional problems with their bodies?

Not from what I've read. Other treatments have shown similar success rates from what I've read. And there has been plenty that's not been tried I'm sure as well.

Other treatment shave been shown to reduce suffering as well

If you notice though, there are so many unhappy individuals who have done all these body alterations and they are running into so many problems. This treatment isn't perfect just like the previous ones. At least the previous ones didn't involve permanent mutilation and removal of body functioning. At least the previous ones attempted to address the core issues. Let's not give up on exploring new treatments. Depression has been around for a very long time and we are still looking for better treatments for it, especially for men who don't respond well to treatments. We aren't going to start giving liposuction to anorexics just because their medications aren't working and this should be no different.

 

...

 

One would have to understand science.

 

I agree. I just think that perhaps some GD individuals try to adopt behaviors seen as being linked to he opposite sex in order to try to be more like the opposite sex. And some engage in interests merely because they're interested. I think that's all fine. People can do and be interested in what they want to.

There are many similarities and differences between men and women. Science has uncovered many innate and important differences. There are always exceptions to the rule of course.

So they would be fine with people using biological sex pronouns like we always have?

There are many things that women have yet to and likely will never evolve, to be able to do that men can do and vise versa.

I think most people would be offended if you use the pronoun "it." There nothing wrong with being called a pronoun for your true sex. We've been doing it without issue for thousands of years.

It's not really though because we've spoken the truth about this for eons. Changing it to expecting others to lie about it now, challenges ethics. It forces others to engage in something that isn't true and that they don't believe in. It's taking a very small minority and shoving the expectation on the huge majority. It also likely isn't healthy to play along with others' pretend world when they need to come to reality to be healed. And if it were truly narcissistic for both, why would it be true or good that one win out over the other?

 

Where did you get your degree in Mental Illnesses?

 

Here's where I think if they did good enough to fool me, then it doesn't matter.

There's a difference between stumbling for words in a glitch and mistating someones pronouns that had no GD and stating a GD individuals' true sex pronouns when you weren't mentally focused and speaking from your heart. I've spoken from my heart on accident several times like this, so I know the difference.

Indeed and we'd still need to start with helping the brain accept the body.

 

Update:
This seemed as good a place as any to provide an update on my care thus far.

Yesterday was my first official appointment with the VA for gender affirming care. Interestingly enough it was not actually with the psychiatrist for GD evaluation, but instead with speech pathology. The psychiatrist appointment is next month.

The goal with speech pathology will be to feminize my voice. Yesterday’s session was just a preliminary evaluation of things like vocal health risk factors, GD resulting from my current voice, a few base line evaluations, and going over what the care plan will involve.

The best way I can describe what the plan will be is like singing or guitar lessons. Each week we’ll go through different exercises then it’ll be up to me to practice between sessions. There’s a pretty hefty packet of homework.

Something I found very interesting was a recommendation from the speech pathologist that I could “pick” my voice if I wanted. Apparently she can help me break down what a person is doing with their vocal fold and vocal tract that makes them sound the way they do. Very cool!

Happy to leave this as an update for anyone interested or answer any new questions if you have them. Thanks, all!

 

I'm confused about the order of this. It seems that a psychiatric evaluation to determine gender dysphoria should come first before what seems to be actual treatment. Or have you already been evaluated and approved for further treatments previously?

 

As was I. My best guess is that the physical medicine department doesn’t operate with the same restrictions that endocrinology does or maybe there’s different rules for scheduling an initial evaluation compared to the actual therapy sessions. Could be a number of explanations I suppose.

 

I can see letting this type of appointment "slip through" so to speak. It does cause any permanent or long term changes, so being out of order won't be a problem, especially if the availability worked out as such.

 

True, but it's the VA. They don't seem to be that loose normally.