Reviewing Atheist 'Lack Belief' in Deities theory. <<MOD WARNING ISSUED>>

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Kokomojojo, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You keep referring to the philosophical world as if is different to the real world, it is just us talking about life. But even if you want to pretend there is some entity called the philosophical world, philosophy always points out that in order to have a reasoned debate you must first make definitions. We know that this thread is not a philosophical debate because you failed to define your key subjects. Logically we know that is order to come to a conclusion your premise must first be correct. The first premise is "God Exists" when that premise has been proved or at least reasonable evidence given we can move on.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  2. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Theism is acceptance that God exists by whatever definition they are using for God as true
    Agnostic accepts neither theism nor atheism as true
    Atheism is acceptance that God does not exist by whatever definition they are using for God.

    This is not about how I define God, its not about me, its about Theism, Atheism, and Agnostic by whatever definitions each are using to make their choice.
     
  3. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Wrong and wrong again.

    I do not need to make any definitions for God, you do!

    You call yourself an atheist, therefore it goes or should go without saying that you have already concluded some definition for G/god(s).
     
  4. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No Belief has several meanings, one of which is.

    1.2 A religious conviction.
    ‘Christian beliefs’

    mass noun ‘the medieval system of fervent religious belief’

    Slick avoids this definition even though when we talk about gods most people are talking about beliefs in gods, religious convictions. Because he makes this huge mistake to begin with the rest of his ideas are pointless.

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/belief
     
  5. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No because I lack belief in gods, why do I need to define something, I am not making any claims, YOU are.
     
    William Rea likes this.
  6. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Its not no belief.

    belief
    noun
    1 An acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.

    You have no proof God does not exist therefore it is a belief.
    If you belief you have proof please post it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  7. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And the fact you have just adjusted your definitions is why we need clear definitions from the start.
     
  8. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    I have made no adjustments.
    If you think I have quote them.
    You just posted a definition now you want to clear them???????
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  9. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, as I just showed and provided source for there are several meanings of belief, you ignore the definition I showed you.
     
  10. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    oh? which one is 'no belief'
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  11. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No problem
     
  12. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    thats not an adjustment its clarification for anyone who does not understand the meaning.

    You have not posted anything that remotely contradicts what I said:

    This is not baking a cake however.
    Each position is specific.

    Theism is acceptance that God exists by whatever definition they are using for God as true

    Agnostic accepts neither theism nor atheism as true

    Atheism is acceptance that God does not exist by whatever definition they are using for God.

    3 unique and contradictory positions.

    Your liger example contains no contradictory conditions as does agnositc-atheist.

    If you want to use the label you are forced to limit yourself to one choice, identical to +1, 0, -1, you cannot be any 2 choices at the same time, in a situation where each choice has a unique specific value.

    This is not a cake where you can blend ingredients.

    You, willie, ral and tecoy etc (and everyone else claiming atheist) all need to explain what your versions [definitions] of God are, since you all have chosen to be an atheist, or admit you all made a choice without subject matter knowledge.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  13. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I missed the comma, but had you actually read the source you would of seen that. Makes no difference.
     
  14. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    I didnt see 'no belief' either, you made it up, and are pretending its in your citation.

    Regardless, it does not relieve any of you from explaining your version of what God is that caused you to claim you are an atheist
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  15. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    First if as you claim, this is a philosophical review the onus is on you to define what you wish to discuss, please live up to your claims or withdraw them.

    Two, I completely accept no knowledge of the subject matter of gods and since no one has ever provided anything like evidence for them I will continue to do so. But you have neatly described why I lack belief, what choice is there to be made when no knowledge of subject matter exists! What you appear to not be able to understand is there is nothing to make a choice about!
     
  16. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    how many more times do you need the same thing defined? thats just doubling down and adding more pretense to claim its not defined.

    So then you are not an atheist at all but instead an agnostic if by 'no knowledge' you mean insufficient evidence.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  17. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And now you have resulted to a circular argument, as an atheist I make no claims about gods, you claim I do and then demand me to define what it is I make no claim about!
     
  18. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Claiming that the label of atheist makes no claims about gods is patently absurd.
    Theist, atheist, and agnostic ALL make a claim about G/gods.
     
  19. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well since it is the purpose of the thread to debate the meaning of atheism, and since all you do is present one meaning as if because you say it then it is true, I rather suspect I will continue for ever.
    No, an agnostic says that the knowledge or evidence is not conclusive and may never be. I say, what evidence? show me the evidence when you have explained what these god things are and I may come to a conclusion, until then, do not waste my time.
     
  20. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What claim do I make about gods?
     
  21. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    once again thats not true.

    try: Reviewing Atheist 'Lack Belief' in Deities theory.

    if someone has insufficient evidence its irrational to conclude nonexistence with insufficient evidence to make such a conclusion.

    that none exist

    So we need to know what version of god you used to conclude no gods exist since you chose the position that no gods exist.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  22. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have shown you Slick makes a fundamental error in his definition of belief.

    And I have made no claims about gods, you insist I have, now do what you require of others and show where I claim gods do not exist. Quote it or drop the claim.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  23. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    moving the goal posts again.

    Definition of atheist

    : a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any god

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist

    seems you have.

    You went from atheist to worshipping prince phillp as god then back to atheist that is considered an unreliable source.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  24. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  25. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Oh and how is that not a statement/position about god?

    You think its rational to claim the word atheist which is incontrovertibly a statement about god, is not a statement about god? wtf?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018

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