Russia has been paying Afghanistan militants to kill NATO troops

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by (original)late, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Did you ever see the pictures from 2003 with Paul Bremer in Iraq? 60 Minutes covered it and so did others. Wheelbarrows full of shrink-wrapped US currency.

    Maybe what the Army found was leftover from that.
     
  2. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    Maybe it was aliens...
     
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  3. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are wrong. If that was the case the Russians and Americans would be killing one anothers soldiers in Syria - but they are not. Russia respects the agreements made and if the US commits a treachery - which they do at times, Russia will retaliate in a way that will be up front, and harsh enough to make Washington think twice before doing it again.

    I recall the time Russia retaliated for some American attack or treachery in Syria, by bombing their secret headquarters; and killing who knows how many agents. But not just Americans, there were also British, Saudis, Israelis and Turks.
     
  4. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are American dollars floating all around the Central Asian States. The Russians always kept a close eye on the amount of American planes coming into those nations with diplomatic immunity, because if they were planning a regime change, the planes would be packed with dollar bills. Putin even joked with Kerry once on what could possible be in his briefcase that he held on to it so tightly and wouldn't entrust it to a flight attendant or associate.
     
  5. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No they wouldn't be. That would start war between us. Both sides pay third parties for the dirty work. You are very naive if you don't think we both use proxies to do our fighting.
     
  6. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Correct ...
    Handbook by Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels at the time:

    Rule # 1
    "Tell a lie often enough and clever enough, then someday majority people will believe everything ... and spread the lie further and further until it is accepted as truth"

    As much as this Nazi scum is rightly hated ... their methods are all too often adopted from right-wing to left-wing.

    Another good example besides most media fir adopting these rules is Donald Trump. If he says something often enough, people will believe it. Example?

    "I will build a wall to Mexico and Mexico will pay for this wall" ... here a source for example, but you can take any source you want and you will get dozens and dozens of examples where Trump told this again and again...




    And what is the reality? Mexico has not paid a single Cent until now for it ... but who has paid for this wall at least? The American tax payer!

    So we have an excellent example of a brazen, bad and impudent lie to his voters, followers and ultimately to the entire American people.

    But how do the Trumponians react to this lie? Completely irrational, because they don't seem to care if they've been completely lied to by Donald Trump ... for something where they once applauded him and what they support.
    The fact that the Trumponians here just shrug their shoulders and use ridiculous phrases by Trump, because "Mexico will alternatively pay somehow differently if they don't send a check" is disturbing and raises serious questions regarding the intelligence of the average Trump's followers on ...
    But it is really hypocritical that these people forgive their idol and continue to believe everything ... but woe if any democrat tells a lie like this! Then you want to accuse these demo cards in court or worse!

    Conclusion: Trump has his followers in the American people under control and can also tell them the biggest lies that these people believe ... just as Hitler, Mao and Stalin once had their followers under control ... AND THAT is the really bad and disturbing at the whole thing!
     
  7. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That would be the American left Democrats "That the American people would believe Russia could do it with the Ruble, shows how gullible they are."
     
  8. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, bad eggs, these Americans.
    That's why millions are fleeing the racist, imperialist, sexist, homophobic, global warmest, corporatist USA
    for secure homes like Venezuela, Cuba and Iran.
    That's why Vietnam, India, Bhutan, Brunei, Phillipines, Malaysia and India want to help China kick America
    out of the South China Sea.
    And this is why Britain, Germany, France, Italy etc are embracing the democratic state of Russia.

    America started the Cold War in 1917 by accusing Lenin (and then uncle Joe Stalin) of genocide, crushing of
    dissent, labor camps, summary executions, brain washing and preparing for world wars with the West. All of
    it was lies.
     
  9. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    And when endet this evil USSR ... the Empire of te Evil as it was called by Reagan, eh?
    No possible enemy further = no cold war further ... and there was no cold war further until Georage Walker Bush started a new one without any reason.

    And when all your former friends and allies start to criticize you for your acting and more as that ... well ... could it be that they are right and you are wrong?
    No ... of course you can't be ever wrong in the USA, I know.
    It is like a ghost driver on the highway and the warning message on the radio: "Attention on highway 1 a ghost driver is coming towards you in direction X, be careful!"

    Reaction of the ghost driver: "One? There are hundreds of ghost drivers!"

    The US is behaving in the same way and the stupid thinking of many Americans is the same with all kinds of things!
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  10. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ever read the Gulag Archipelago or the Black Book of Communism?
    The Communist empire enslaved one third of all the people in the world,
    and took the lives of about 150,000,000 people. That's why it's called the
    "evil empire."
     
  11. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    The 150 million are a bit too high for me ... but in principle I do not want to deny, relativize or justify the communists and their evil deeds in any way.

    Only ... Communism ended with the USSR ... Russia has not been a communist country for around 30 years ... but for the Americans, Russia has always been the "Empire of the Evil" and some of them call them still communistic ... and that is just ridiculous , hypocritical, shameful, idiotic and above all wrong!

    It's not about what was before or during the Cold War ... although the Cold War started at the end or after World War II and not before. That was what you mean by 1917 with a different background. But no matter ... there is no question of that either, because that no longer really interests and is part of the past history!

    It's about the war now with Russia, which the USA and the West started about 15 years ago for no reason!
    So don't come over and over again with the evil communists of once in the past ... that's totally uninteresting and irrelevant. It's about now!
     
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  12. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    We're talking the ass end of Afghanistan...
     
  13. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The amount of people killed is a bit of exaggeration, even considering China. As for communism, well a Saint in Moscow said decades ago, that what will start in Russia will end in the US. Well here it is, communism with all its anarchy and destruction - and guess what? It's supported by the Democrats.

    We are trained Marxists:
     
  14. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why would the Russians be handing out American dollars, when dollars could go far in Russia with the low Ruble. Besides, the Russians aren't the ones with the money making machine.



    (Sing to the tune of Row, Row, Row Your Boat)

    Washington's Money Machine
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Turn, turn, turn the wheel
    all the life long day.
    That way we can merrily, merrily

    spend our life away. - Jeannette



     
  15. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    Because that's the preferred international currency.
     
  16. GlobalCitizen

    GlobalCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Sounds familiar. Kinda like seeking a big deal with Iran after they killed our troops for a decade and basically prevented us from accomplishing the Iraq mission from day one.
     
  17. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I won't watch this. Just shudder thinking about it. An article today in either the Wall Street Journal or the Australian
    looked at the defacing of Churchill's monument. It posed the what-if some other leader was the UK prime minister
    and would the likely outcome would be, particularly with 300,000 British troops at Dunkirk. Didn't make pretty reading
    as Germany would have won the war in the West and most likely the East as well.
    Orwell's 1984 spoke of the defacing of monuments. Would like to ask these radicals to explain to me how Orwell knew
    so well what they were going to do, and what they plan to do next.
     
  18. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Go ask the people of Hong Kong what they think of Communist China.
    Would you go live in Communist North Korea?
    What of the civil rights of people in Communist Cuba?

    I too shared the belief that the West is unnecessarily anti-Russian, for a long while.
    Not anymore. See too much in that nation that is cruel, dictatorial, intolerant of dissent,
    imperialist, provoking, lying and rotten to the core. Just ask any Pole or Finish what
    they think of today's Russia.
    I was too young to be sucked in by the "Uncle Joe" Stalin business, but I watched our
    trade unions and academics fawn over Uncle Mao. What's the upper figure on HIS murders?
    Eighty million I believe.
    As for "starting a war" - this is instructive: 1970's I was a trade union official, AMWU Australia.
    Some of the Aust Trade Union officials went to China and protested "Why did you lie to
    us?" about exposures concerning the "Gang of Four.". Chinese officials said, "Because you want
    to be lied to."
    Same as Russia and her "useful idiots."
     
  19. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    I did not say that I have any sympathy for Communism ... or that it has a clean slate of innocence ... because Communism certainly does not.

    However, it is always the case that you have to be very careful not to sit in a glass house and then throw stones at other evil outside. What I mean by that is that nobody has a clean slate on this planet and if you are rightly accusing someone of something ... you should be careful not to have done in the past or doing the same still. That would not only be ridiculous, but above all hypocritical!

    Example: Did the USSR do evil things in Afghanistan in the 1980s after it invaded the country, installed a regime that they owned, and then acted against the insurgents with sometimes extremely bad measures?
    Yes, the USSR did all of this ... even if it is still contested by various Russians like the forum member "Destroyer of Illusion" to the blood. It's proven that the USSR was evil and did evil!

    However ... does the US have any legitimacy to play the prosecutor against the Russians here? No, not even a bit!
    Why? Because they did exactly the same evil in Vietnam a good 10 years earlier ... even if it is still contested by Americans and American forum members. It is proven that the USA was evil and did evil!

    You understand what I mean?

    Russia today is not the USSR of that time! That today's Russia is not a real democracy according to your and my standards, we both agree ... but that is uninteresting and a matter for the Russians themselves ... not by you, not by me or anyone else outside of Russia !

    Until George W. Bush started installing the Anti Missile Shield in Poland ... and dancing in the sphere of influence of Russia (i.e. in her front yard) and giving a **** to the opinion of the Russians ... but woe someone is dancing in Front yard of the USA and gives a **** on the opinion of the USA, eh? ... Russia had done nothing, absolutely nothing evil!
    Russia had only one civil war here in Chechnya, which was and is a partial republic of Russia and so is a purely internal affair of the Russians ... just like every one of the 50 US states is part of the USA and it is a purely American affair, if in one these US states the same thing happened in Chechnya!
    And to speak of "poor" Chechens as victims is hypocritical ... the USA got to know these poor Islamist Chechens themselves in Faluja / Iraq, where as foreign Al Qaeda / IS members they wounded and killed many Americans!

    Conclusion: The USA started this new cold war with Russia under Bush Jr. as President without any reason, because Russia has not given the slightest reason for it.
    Everything that came after and still comes is caused by the USA in the origin.
    That Russia is not a democracy in our understanding and that Russia supports bastards like Assad is completely irrelevant. The United States did and does the same ... or do you seriously mean, Saudi Arabia, what you support is better than Syria or Iran?

    Of course, the neighbors fear the great Russia ... the Poles, the Baltic States and Finland too ... but Russia has never threatened them and many of the problems that these countries currently have with Russia were caused by them at their own. When Lithuania ... where a lot of Russians still live from USSR times ... and wants to ban Russian as the official language and tears off all Russian culture and or monuments and open demonstrations of thousands of people are made in the streets to commemorate former Lithuanians, those of the Germans SS belonged to, then you seriously wonder in the US that the Russians are "not amused" about it?

    You always have to look at the whole and all the facts ... and when you do that, it usually results in a different picture!
     
  20. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do you say that America was "evil" for supporting South Vietnam against Communism?
    Is America "evil" for maintaining bases in South Korea today?
    Same for Germany, which she bombed almost to the stone age?
    Saying we can't judge Communism because there's wrong in liberal democracies is disingenuous,
    like saying no judge is perfect, therefor don't condemn a prisoner. This is called "moral relativism"
    and it is quite pernicious, cynical, hypocritical and intellectually lazy.
     
  21. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Because the United States started its operation in Vietnam with a lie ... the incident in the Gulf of Tonkin has now been proven to be a brazen lie and hiding of what actually happened where and by whom. And what did the US do in Vietnam afterwards? Should I seriously list all the war crimes and treaty violations where the United States signed against it?
    Only as hint: Massacre of My Lai which is only the most known of many others ... or Agent Orange use which was known by the US to be such a more as evil chemical agent.

    South Korea is different and I haven't mentioned South Korea as an example of evil deeds in the United States. But I find it interesting that many Americans do not know that the United States and North Korea have been in a state of war for almost 70 years and there is only a ceasefire with the relevant agreements and rules that both must follow. Did you know that?
    If so, then I hope you also know that in such circumstances the stupid chatter of Trump and his fans a good year ago regarding a preventive attack because of Kim's mssiles and nuclear weapons is just BS. Why? Because there is no preventive attack in an international ceasefire (as signed by the United States!) And one is allowed. Guilty and a criminal is only the one who shoots the other first, no matter who!

    And as for my country ... Germany ... the Allies committed their crimes without question. The massive and deliberate destruction of locations by area bombing and the deliberate killing of civilians is prohibited by the Geneva Convention. But I do not blame the USA and the Allies here, because what my country has done here in terms of evil matters more than offset ... apart from the fact that Germany started such bombings (in Warsaw, but the bombing of Rotterdam and the first bombing of London later was in reality an accident and chain of unfortunate coincidences, but no intention to kill as many civilians as possible).

    I did not say that communism should not be judged and condemned! Only those who do so should better not have a list of the same or similar crimes.
    Or what do you call it ... when an active killer accuses another killer of crime murder?

    There are differences in the countries today ... and I have learned over the years in this forum that the righ-wingers in the USA get a rash on the term directly. Terms like social are considered evil directly because social sounds like socialist and that's evil ...
    We have something in my country that is called "social market economy" as a system ... and social is not socialist, but has to do with social responsibility in society.
    And by the way, liberal is often too bad for us ... but differently than in the USA, because here liberal stands for Stone Age capitalists who want to get the state and all rules out of the economy and preferably "Big business in the style of the lawless Wild West "want.
    All too often, the USA shows how much this ends in an evil crisis and crash when the righties almost abolish the rules for the Wall Street and bank money sharks. First comes the boom ... and then every time the crash came and the US taxpayer and the US citizen has to bleed for it! Sorry, we say no thanks!
     
  22. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, Tonkin was a lie. That lie was to get America involved in Indochina to stop Communism.
    Just as America did it all it could to get involved in Europe to stop the Nazis.
    Communist masquerade as "nationalist" after killing non-Communist nationalists. There were
    to be no free elections in the North, why allow "Nationalists" to have free elections in the South?
    By the late 1960's most South Vietnamese understood the Stalinist and Maoist nature of the
    "nationalists" and there was no uprising against America in the Tet offensive. The famous photo of
    the napalm girl was pure propaganda - she was hurt by the Sth Viet air force as they took back
    the city of Hue. In that city, which did not rise up, many people were tortured or buried alive by
    the Communists (sorry, nationalists) before being driven out. Their story is never told by the liberal
    media - only that photo.
    Every story of some atrocity by allied soldiers can be easily matched in triplicate by atrocities in the
    name of "liberation." As a rule - five to ten percent of every nation "liberated" by Communism is
    killed. In the Tonkin days most Vietnamese did not understand this. Mao helped them to understand.
     
  23. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    They accomplished the Iraq mission--rich profits for Halliburton and others.
     
  24. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wait... wasn't America in Iraq FOR THE OIL?
    Oh wait... the Chinese and French got those oil contracts.

    Didn't America go into Iraq for the WMD's but didn't find them?
    That's strange because there's a few tens of thousands of dead Iranians
    and Kurds who were killed by chemical weapons --- from somebody.

    Isn't the Second Gulf War a failed mission?
    Well, Iraq hasn't invaded Kuwait or Iran, sent missiles to Israel, gassed
    Kurds, brutalized Sunnis, run a totalitarian state or threatened the gulf
    states lately. And Iraqis VOTE.... wow, vote.

    Wan't the First Gulf War supposed to start WWIII ???
    Yeah, they said that, too. As usual it was just anti-American, pro-imperialism,
    pro-Sadaam, pro war propogandists.

    And see America supporting allies in the South China Sea from Chinese
    bullying? That's just more Halliburton stuff. The quicker China become the
    American defense contractor the better?
     
  25. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    If Russia doesn't want to shoot missiles at Poland, why does Russia care if Poland places anti-missile defense on their soil?

    If Russia does want to shoot missiles at Poland, of course Poland is wise to put in Missile defense.

    It’s do or die for Germany’s new missile defense weapon
    [​IMG]
    https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2020/07/17/its-do-or-die-for-germanys-new-missile-defense-weapon
    /

    Weird how you have a real objection to Polish missile defense, but I can't find any posts by you decrying German Missile defense.

    Poland is becoming America’s key NATO ally.

    [​IMG]
    Again, and again, and again, the answer is not Germany, it's Poland.
    https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/commentary/2020/02/20/poland-is-becoming-americas-key-nato-ally/

    Given the U.S. armored formations in Poland, Warsaw is taking a long hard work at acquiring a complete fleet of the M-1 Abrams to replace its obsolescent Russian-made tanks.

    Poland is unblinded by complacency, they know it is like to be crushed by Russian tanks, followed by the mass rape of polish women. They are completely committed to their own defense, making them a good place to anchor the Eastern edge of the NATO alliance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020

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