Russia to West: D-Day wasnt decisive in ending WW2.

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by zoom_copter66, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    And have you ever looked at why these countries got into trouble ... now they are ... o wonder ... out of the crisis!

    Of course there are always those EU daydreaters talking and dreaming of a "United States of Europe" ... but de facto, the EU is an economic community and nothing else ... and it's a good thing!
    Because of course, a German is a Greek to a different than a Texan to a New York ... there are two completely different languages and thousands of different history and culture in between!

    The EU is first and foremost a common internal market ... in fact, it is something like the US on this point. Almost all members also have the euro as their currency ... and there is no EU government in Brussels, as some Leutoe without knowledge always like to claim, but an administration for this single market.
    For that, all members have given up parts of their sovereignty to Brussels ... because otherwise it will not work.


    First of all, in the whole current situation, I see Russia as a victim of Western power politics and arrogance ... and hypocrisy. Not only from the US, but also from the EU and from NATO. You can also create your own enemies and the "West" has made it here with Russia!
    Ukraine? F*** Ukraine, who cares about Kiev? Putin had already clearly stated in 2011 what will happen if something like the Maidan passes along with Western arrogance as it happened. He said in no uncertain terms that the Crimea will become Russian and at the end Donbass (Eastern Ukraine) an autonomous republic. At that time he was laughed at in the West ... but I do not think that anyone of these idiots still laughs at Putin today! If the West is so stupid, ignorant and arrogant, then I have no pitty!

    And otherwise ... sorry ... the US pops Russia without any reason a massive anti-missile defense in the nose ... say it is against Iran and North Korea, even if both have proven to have no missiles with such a reach to the Time ... and seriously believe that Putin accept it?
    Above all, the US, but also the EU is dancing in the front yard of the Russian influence sphere "Square Dance" with the intention to harm Russia ... let that Russia (or someone else like China) in the American front yard = Central America and Caribbean make. Then the US reacts very quickly ... even more violently than Russia!

    Germany is by far the economically strongest country in the EU, it pays the most money to the EU ... and undisputedly, it also benefits greatly from the EU. Unfortunately, in the EU and also outside the EU (especially in the US) there is a desire for the old Germany from before the Weidervereinigung. The Krauts are supposed to pay nicely and otherwise shut up! These times are but completely over and that's right ... even if it annoys some udn not in vain comes then again and again the nonsense with references to the WW-2 and the Nazis.
    In 2008 and after that, the EU had to learn hard, because who should issue the checks there to cope with the crisis? Sure ... but this time there were clear announcements from Berlin with 98% approval of the German population!
    It may be that some EU members break away from the EU when something like 2008 happens again, but I just shrug.

    Possibly ... but I see it rather as a beginning century, where the US will gradually lose its supremacy and where they will learn that tueir military power will not help them ... above all on its own guilt ... and where completely new constellations will form.
     
  2. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Ehm ... why should we make instead 1 Euro for all, 2 different? Bullshit!
    There are clear guidelines for EUro and they have to be fulfilled. Black or white ... there is no gray in between!
    The Kultir is completely uninteresting, here it comes to money and economy, not culture!
    The Greeks knowingly made stupid mistakes, elected corrupt governments for decades and wasted tons of money ... so the bill came in 2008! And we Germans should just pay for everything that the Greeks messed up? Sorry ... who believes and demands, he's just an idiot!
    We were ready to help, but with clear rules and guidelines, because it is a help, not a donation!
    Have you ever informed yourself how much and how incredibly stupid the Greeks were wasting money?

    The ECB in Frankfurt just has to have the same power as the Fed in the US ... that's something I said and demanded from the beginning and years before 2008 ... but the ladies and gentlemen of European politics wanted that not really and get it until today very zöglerlich that there is no other way!
    If a federal state in the US makes such a financial mess as Greece, then tell me something about Washington and what the Fed is doing. Right .... that's it!
    And as far as the other southern Europeans are concerned, the crisis has also caused their house of cards to collapse, showing that it was only a clean facade, where it was rotten behind it! Again, there have been painful reforms and changes ... with pressure from Berlin and that was true!
    The times where Germany only bravely paid everything, but otherwise "shut up" are over!
     
  3. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Interesting ... so are preventive, fast attacks, which even happened here with declaration of war, generally aggressive and bad?

    If so, please also condemn Israel for the 6-day war and the US for the attack on Iraq in 2003.

    If not, please explain why it was OK in the case of the US and Israel, but not in Germany in 1914?
     
  4. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    You know that Ho-Chi-Minh asked the USA for hlep to become free from French depression as French colonny? He asked the USA first, not the USSR or China! So make your enemies by your own as usual!

    I hav n ever told that the communists were better or did not bad things, nor did I say that they were saints!

    But the point is that in South Vietnam, a terror regime was in power, that by any of your yardsticks your enemy would have been ... if these bastards on Saigon had not had the luck to be threatened by Communist insurgents.
    As always, it did not matter to the US what kind of bastards they support here ... like in Cuba, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, and many other countries!

    And have you ever considered what alternatives this oppressed population had to help the Communists ... if their dictators are supported by the US?
    But it's not like you made that mistake just once ... no ... meanwhile you make the mistake somewhere else again and this time it's not not the communists, but the islamists, the only alternative to those of you to represent unsupported bastards!

    As I said ... you are world champions to create enemies for yourself!
     
  5. Kathie Harine

    Kathie Harine Active Member

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    You never paid proper reparations for the Nazi butchery at all. What you did is got the biggest bailout in history: the Marshall Plan.

    First you brought in Turks for cheap labor, then when the Berlin Wall came down you got East Germans for cheap labor, then you used Eastern Europeans for cheap labor, then you brought in hoards of middle east refugees as cheap labor. Germany has created a mess for Europe.
     
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  6. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Indeed I have. They don't have control of their own monetary policy, nor of the movement of capital in and out of the country.

    No, they aren't. Nowhere, from America to China to Europe, has the damage done in 2008 be fully repaired.

    And, someday, it will be even less than that.

    Okay. So what? That is going to be a continuing fact. And as I see it, your country, more than any other, will make a victim of Russia.

    I don't think anyone expects Putin to accept it.

    Above all, the US, but also the EU is dancing in the front yard of the Russian influence sphere "Square Dance" with the intention to harm Russia ... let that Russia (or someone else like China) in the American front yard = Central America and Caribbean make. Then the US reacts very quickly ... even more violently than Russia!

    You won't, then.

    Well, let's just say that our predictions are opposite one another. I think that all those continents "over there" are going to become a roiling cauldron of instability, while over on this side of the pond we're going to have problems certainly, but nothing like what you're facing over there.
     
  7. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    Horsecrap. The Russians were anihalating the Germans and would have easily taken Germany without any help from the Alies. The US was sweating bulletts that the Russians would get their hands on German rocket and nuclear technology which was the real reason we got into the war to begin with. Had Hitler not attacked Russia, half of Europe would be German today.
     
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  8. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    Uh,lol. The Russkis did get their hands on German weapons/rocket technology:))).....after the war.

    AK47....reactive armor, Abombs, poison gas, optics for their rifles, etc.

    Yes Russkis annihilating Germans so much that we still needed to ship tons of Lend Lease.:)).
     
  9. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    Actually, we got our hands on the lions share of German technology before the fall of Germany, Russia got leftovers. enough though to kick our asses in rocket technology well into the 60's. So far as subsidizing Russia, we subsidized almost everyone in WW2 including the Germans. Prescott Bush was Hitlers banker and Henry Ford made Hitlers tank engines, not to mention Standard Oil making the fuel additives for Germany's plane even up to and after the Battle of Briton. You see, America loves to profit from war.
     
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  10. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Again ... being member of the EURO area means to give up own money control to the ECB ... it is like with the USA and their 50 states towards the Fed. The US had learned that a strong Fed is necessary as it is necessary to castrate state rights about the Dollar about 130-140 years ago ...

    And that they are not able to control movement is their own guilt, because other Euro members are able. So ... ;-)

    Correct ... but they are in a stronger and better position as they were in 2008!

    {QUOTE]And, someday, it will be even less than that.[/QUOTE]

    Wishful thinking of EU opponents ... decades old!

    {QUOTE]Okay. So what? That is going to be a continuing fact. And as I see it, your country, more than any other, will make a victim of Russia.[/QUOTE]

    We more as than any other? Interesting claim from someone who's far right cleary wants to see Russia destroyed!

     
  11. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    O ... again this impudent lie and accuse?
    According to US data, by the mid-1950s Germany had paid around USD 25 billion (a gigantic USD amount!) To repartions, plus confiscation of the entire state assets, all international assets, the entire merchant fleet, all patent rights and considerable territorial losses.
    Furthermore, West Germany has also completely repaid the reparations payments from the Treaty of Versailles after the First World War.

    Furthermore, Germany had ... although it had since 1953 at the Lonon debt agreement no longer had to make payments ... bilateral negotiations continue to pay compensation in a gigantic scale. Then there are the payments and benefits of Communist East Germany (GDR) in Eastern Europe ....

    No ... Germany has paid everything and no longer has to pay, and the International Court of Justice, who has dismissed any legal action in this regard, also sees this.
    Of course some countries that still like to get the Nazi club out like Greece ... but they only cash in on us the middle finger as an answer! Everything is paid, there is nothing more. Basta!

    ROFL ... I get a laugh attack! Please investigat ebetter and not in bullshit sources!
    We let in Turks and mayn others like Italians, Spanish etc. due to fact htat we haf far more jobs as people to do the jobs! These people live here now in 4th or 5th generation in meantime and most are German citizens!
    And about the rest ... really? O dear ... as told: Investigate better before you write lies!

    Eastern Germany was bankrupt and the industrxy down and the living costs lesser as in West Germany until today! So their wages went up step for step ...
    And Eastern Europeans we don't let in as cheap labour persons ... only in the past leglaly fpr farm jobs at harvesting. And the refugees have nothing to do with it at all ... because they are not allowed to work!
     
  12. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    No kiddin'.......uh yeah, USA provided Germany with Lotsa "things".....we did great business, and we sorta went to war with each other "half heartedly"....the real threat was the Asiatic sovs. Russkis got leftovers"?...if only.....we should've incorporated all of Germany.....this way no cold war, Wall, or any other BS.

    They kicked out asses?? We landed on the moon they didn't. It doesn't matter whose outta the starting line......it's who crossed the finish line:)).
     
  13. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is what I'm referring to.

    Mmm, your understanding of American history is a bit suspect. This little quote is so wrong that I can't really even interpret what you're trying to say.

    That's okay, most of my countrymen can't point to Germany on a map.

    No, they aren't. Capital controls are strictly regulated in the EU.

    No, they just aren't. Our financial institutions are extremely overleveraged and we have very little to show for it, the southern Europeans even less.

    We are not in a good position to deal with a similar event.

    I'm not an "EU opponent" nor is this wishful thinking. I wish that Germany had shown the leadership needed over the last 13 years to advance the EU as an institution. They did not, they condemned their fellow Europeans to a decade of austerity over pennies. They don't take seriously the concerns of their eastern and northern members regarding the tightening relationship with Russia. They have completely failed to push forward bold initiatives to deal with migration from Africa and the Levant.

    It was up to Germany, and she failed.

    The fact of the matter is that our relationship with Russia is quite distant. We get our natural resources and labor pools from other countries as well as our own, not from Russia. Imperialism isn't just something that happens to brown people. The same dynamics that take place between China and Angola will also take place between Germany and Russia, as German capital becomes the primary determinant of power and influence within Russia.

    That it's a provocation is ancillary.

    The German economy is completely dependent on exports to your fellow EU members, not to mention how uncomfortable Germans are with close proximity between themselves and those with diverging interests.

    You're treating a hurricane as a breeze.

    I think your leadership understands the actual effects of kicking member states out, and understands more than you why the fracturing of the EU is worrisome.

    EU elites take the kid gloves to Hungary and Poland for a reason.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  14. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    Are you a comedian? If not you are misinformed.
     
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  15. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    D-Day was for the Soviets. The idiot Stalin demanded a second front in Northern Europe instead of the Allies entering Europe through the soft underbelly of the Balkans as the British wanted. The 'heroic' loss of life in Russia during the war was the direct result of Stalin's paranoia and stupidity. Without massive support from America when the man Stalin admired turned on him, it would be hard to find a Russian today.
     
  16. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    No....im not a comedian. Misinformed?? How so?
     
  17. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    It did, and there was another bomb in transit to the Pacific in case they were thinking we didn't have more, and we could have had a dozen by the end of 1945. If they were stupid enough not to quit, we could have dropped nukes on their forces massed to stop us from invading.

    Truman made it absolutely clear we were going to bomb them until they gave up. Many Japanese were starving and who knows how many would have starved to death if the war had continued into 1946.
     
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  18. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    No D-Day would have meant Soviet domination of all Europe.
     
  19. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    One should've been left for Moscow back in 45 or 46....US/former CCCP were never really "allies" during the war.....just an agreement to fight Hitler....after that all bets were off.....and off they were....hardly after the fall of Germany the tensions were high!

    Or the Sovs should've been halted somewhere in current day Belarus.

    US should've never left Leipzig in 45....we should've held our ground like Patton/Churchill wanted.
     
  20. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    We had several hundred atom bombs by the time Russia exploded their first atom bomb.
    We left tens of millions of people to live in a police state. Not good.
     
  21. sharik

    sharik Banned

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    no, he didn't. Stalin wanted Europe for himself entirely.
    the Allies made it all up about him calling on them.
    the Wehrmacht losses were all on East Front sustained from Red Army.
    all the biggest WWII battles were those fought on East Front's.
    but America supported Hilter and sent him help.
    it was only after the Stalingrad battle that she went & betrayed him.
     
  22. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Wrong ... Stalin demanded a second front several times and even made a threat towards the Western allies if they don't make D-Day!

    What is no wonder, because 60-80% of all Wehrmacht nits fought in Eastern Front ... and that is why this Wesrern behavior of "Only D-Day brought the victory" is lame adn rediculous ;-)

    Sorry, but this is simply an evil propaganda lie you reply here! The facts speak a clear language and show that this is a lie. In September 1941 negotiated Maxim Litvinov with Harriman from the USA about the details what the Red Army needs and how to deliver etc. ... so before the USA went into war after Pearl Harbour!
    Correct is that the USA mostly delivered after battle of Stalingrad ... but this is ver well reasoned with the fact that only 3 routes were available and not all until 1943 ... and every delivery had a 3 month and more time of journy for the US ships.

    In total, the US alone (so without UK and Canada) delivered to USSR:

    14,795 aircraft
    7056 tanks
    8218 anti-aircraft guns
    131,633 machine guns
    105 submarine hunters
    197 torpedo boats
    15.417 million pairs of boots
    4.062 million tons of food
    2.54 million tons of steel
    728,000 tonnes of non-ferrous metals
    764,000 tons of chemicals
    2.42 million tons of petrochemicals
    77,900 SUV Willys MB ("Jeep")
    151,000 light transport vehicles
    200,000 Studebaker US6 trucks
    1.5 million kilometers of telephone cable
    35,000 radio stations
    380,000 field telephones
    30% of all tires
    56% of all rails
    1/3 of all explosives welceh the Red Army needed
    1900 locomotives
     
  23. sharik

    sharik Banned

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    there's no proof he did. Stalin would not have shared the victory with anyone, let alone the West.
    Red Army soldiers wore jackboots, not boots; the list you cited is fake. Lend Lease is a myth.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  24. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. Britain wanted very much to enter Europe through the soft underbelly of the Balkans, but fdr gave in to Stalin's entreaties.
     
  25. MB74

    MB74 Member

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    Germany did lose 75% of it's military fighting the Russians, but Russian losses were more, an estimated 26 million people. The Red Army lost an estimated 11 million soldiers. The Russian contribution can not be overlooked, but without Lend Lease, the Russian military would have been annihilated.
     

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