Russian Rudeness and Russian History

Discussion in 'Ethnic & Religious Conflicts' started by ibshambat, Aug 31, 2016.

  1. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    The Russian people are known as being rude, violent and authoritarian. While I do not yet understand the historical origin of Russian rudeness, a case can be made that rudeness is actually more respectful and honorable than politeness. When you are rude, people know exactly where you stand; whereas when you are polite they are left guessing. I have heard it say by an American lady that sometimes nice people are worse than mean ones. And I have also known any number of salesmen and player types in both America and Australia who put on a nice and polite front while wooing a lady but turned into monsters when the woman was theirs.

    In the Japanese culture – and in some parts of the America - it is considered wrongful to say, even to think, anything negative. This turns into absolute dishonesty. After the Fukashima disaster, the Japanese politicians following their customs did not tell people the reality of the gravity of what had taken place, and people lacked the knowledge that they needed to protect their lives and their health.

    Some of the reasons for these attitudes are the Buddhist law of cause and effect and the Pagan law of attraction: That like begets like and that you get what you send out. A traditional Russian would look at people who believe such things and say, “What a bunch of airheads.” They in return would look back at him and say, “What a loser.”

    Both of the above have a point. It may be valid to be a positive person; it is most certainly valid to see in people their positive qualities; but it is in no way valid to be either blind or insincere.

    Where does the trademark Russian negativity come from? Probably the idea in Orthodox Christianity that the world is evil. That would of course create a negative outlook on life. It does not however necessarily translate into failure. Russians have had all sorts of disasters; they also put the first man in space, won the Second World War, produced brilliant inventions, created some of the world's greatest music and literature, and for several decades credibly rivalled America for leadership of the world.

    Where rudeness fails is when it turns into an actual disrespect. This leads to closed-mindedness that keeps the person from seeing other people's positive qualities or learning the things that they need to know. One thing I've learned from American businessmen is that you never know when someone will have something useful to say or have something useful to offer, and unpleasantness can deter useful input and alienate potential friends. There are many Russian people who need to hear that and correct such behaviors, as they are hurting mostly themselves. But at no point do they need to go the way of the Japanese or the players or Southern belles and become actually insincere.

    One place that does stand to benefit from a healthy dose of traditional Russian rudeness is the politically correct cultures in America. These places want to stop any speech that anyone can consider to be offensive. This prevents from being said anything controversial – meaning, anything meaningful. That vitiates the First Amendment as well as the democratic intent. Bad beliefs in a democracy are not meant to be censored; they are meant to be met with rational refutation.

    As for the Russian violence and authoritarianism, this is due to Russian history. They have learned again and again that violence and authoritarianism pay. They had very nice cities at once, that were conquered by Mongols and subdued for 300 years. There was another situation when there were two competing Russian governments – the Tsar in Moscow and a democracy in Novgorod – and Moscow conquered Novgorod. Trotsky was far less brutal than Stalin, but Stalin rose to great power and Trotsky wound up getting shot. Under the Soviet rule, Russia became a superpower; but it was laid as low as dirt under the humanitarian Gorbachev and the democratic Yeltsin.

    In a recent poll of Russian people, 30% said that they wanted democracy, 30% said that they wanted authoritarianism, and 30% said that they did not know. Their own historical lessons favor authoritarianism, but they also know about democracy in the West. This creates conflict between those who look at Russian traditional history and those who look to the West; and this conflict has been ongoing since 17th century.

    One thing that make the former credible at this time has been the failure of the hopes of many. Many Russian people looked up to the West, but many now believe that West has betrayed them. This has created a very dangerous situation. It has reinforced the traditional authoritarian attitudes and discredited those who looked to the West. Putin remains highly popular, even despite the sanctions; and I am of the opinion that the sanctions are also working to reinforce these attitudes.

    What we are dealing with here is a very volatile mix, and one that has all sorts of destructive potentials. We are seeing the better people being discredited, and we are seeing the worse people becoming more credible. Wrong lessons learned from history are being reinforced, and reinforced with them are also bad cultural habits. The West needs to reach out to Russia in the same way that Russian people reached out to the West. Only then will the better habits become more credible. And only then will wrong lessons that have been learned from history finally be unlearned.
     
  2. Pipette8

    Pipette8 Well-Known Member

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  3. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    It seems to be their default condition I believe. And it does not help that they were probably the last of the "Feudal States", even existing in that way into the 20th century. There, everybody was either a ruler, or ruled over. And for the next 60 years after they threw out their old rulers, they simply shifted from one maniacal despot to another until the system collapsed.

    I think one of the best in the US at understanding the pulse of the common Russian-Soviet citizen was probably Melvin Kaminsky. Born in Brooklyn to a German father and Ukrainian mother, he made one classic movie about life in Russia both before and after the Revolution. And in 1970 he wrote the screen play and directed a movie based upon a classic Soviet literary work.

    And he also wrote the title song.

    [video]
     
  4. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    It has been all downhill since they killed the Romanoffs.
     
  5. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The problem I see is that the Russian people have no voice or contact to interact with and the Government has no desire to do so or allow them the freedom required. Basically the people of Russia are now invisible or considered to be a reflection of Putin, which makes them pariah as dear leader hoped for. It sucks for the people but there it is and until he is gone it will stay that way.
     
  6. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And murdered 100 million more.

    Not particularly the Russians but communist regimes.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Ernest T.

    Ernest T. Newly Registered

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    What an atrocity.
     
  8. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @ibshambat As far as I understand things, Russia knew an incredible improvement of their conditions of living under Putin. It's not very surprizing they support him. Democratic countries are mostly in crisis.
    Russia is a harsh country. I'm not speaking of the people, the climate itself is harsh. And yes, they knew also an extremly violent history. Russia knew with the german one of the most deadly war a country could know. 16 % of USSR population died during WW2, compared to the 0,32 % that USA lost (your worst war). They lived with the mongolian at the east and the turks at the south, you can't be pleasant when you have such neighbours.
    The insight on Orthodox religion is interesting.
     
  9. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

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    I know I'm being pedantic, but . . . America's worst war was the War Between the States. There were 620k casualties, as opposed to about 400k for WWII.

    Actually, I hadn't heard the Russians are rude. I have heard that they need to be shown that you can hurt them badly before they will respect you.
     
  10. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    I've met a variety of Russians, and Georgians as well; some are *******s, some aren't, some are very nice and pleasant people, though they do tend to moroseness in poetry and the arts, and alcoholism, but the U.S. was an even worse nation of violent nasty drunks through most of its history, so Russians don't stand out as that much different from pre-Prohibition Americans; Prohibition and the post-1920 moratorium on immigration had changed modern America for the better overall socially, but that has gone now; Americans can't even get up a consensus to protect its own school children from perverts and sociopaths these days.

    Russia's new patriotism is to be admired, as is its resistance to modern social fashions, things America should be doing if it wants to remain a First World country and not continue the path the Netherlands and Britain went down economically and socially. This is not to say we should support their foreign policies or love them, just re-learn a couple of lessons from history.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  11. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    Russians are mostly barbarians. Like animals, they only see their immediate advantage. They don't think about further consequences. As a result, populists like Pootin and Stalin are highly esteemed by the Russkies.
     
  12. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    All governments are a reflection of the people they govern, the good and the bad; whatever ideology they effect at a given time doesn't change that fact much, unless they have foreign rulers from outside imposed on them. Americans love corruption and self-indulgence, and our government is very much about that as well. This is why elections don't change much unless the people themselves have changed, and of course changing for the worse is very much an option. Russians have a very different national defense environment from the U.S., much more dangerous, so they can see the point in a Putin over say, some sheltered marshmellow Burb Brat like a Jeb Bush.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  13. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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    Russia is a very harsh climate .
    Russia has a terrible history of ruthless dictators and tyrants !!
    Very very brutal history
     
  14. sharik

    sharik Banned

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    the average temperature of +18 C is harsh?

    Sochi, subtropical climate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Sochi

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
  15. sharik

    sharik Banned

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    that has nothing to do with reality, this one has -

     
  16. sharik

    sharik Banned

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    there wasn't that many people at the time in there.
     
  17. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think it's just a cultural thing, in some cultures you are considered rude for slurping your soup in some you are considered rude for not slurping your soup. In some cultures you are considered rude for talking too loud in others you are considered rude for not talking loud. In some cultures it is considered rude for not allowing a woman to walk through a door first in others the man should go first.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020

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