Should Palestinians Really Stay In Their Cage And Die?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Tipper101, Apr 4, 2024.

  1. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is it just me or is all this whacky "Ziono-logic" starting to sound the same?

    - I've been accused of hating Gaza's civilians because I don't think that appeasing genocidal Zionists and driving Gaza's civilians from their homes is the solution to the most blatant genocide this century.

    - "Hamas started it..." Another bizarre notion that apologists for Netanyahu's genocide have is that the Israel - Palestine conflict "started" on 7 October 2023.
    It's as if the Nakba never happened, there was no murderous Operation Cast Lead, no Operation Pillar of Cloud, no Operation Cutting Edge and daily torment that no one here would tolerate.

    - The "Human Shield" myth: What good are children etc good for as "Human Shields" when IDF shoots human shields for fun?

    “Video Shows IDF Snipers Shooting Palestinian Children For Fun, But Facebook Won’t Let You Share It”
    https://kalamu.com/neogriot/2014/09...n-for-fun-but-facebook-wont-let-you-share-it/

    I could go on at length about the frantic outright falsehoods, backwards logic and delusional thinking that Israel's genocidal right wing Netanyahu regime will ever eliminate determined native resistance to right wing Zionist genocide and expansionism.

    As long as there are 1.7 Billion Muslims in the world, there will always be resistance to henchmen like Netanyahu, Yoav Gallant and Avi Dichter who admitted "We are now rolling out the Gaza Nakba."

    Thanks,
     
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  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    These are all good points.

    It's hard to stop with the examples of Israeli humanitarian atrocities - the magnitude is overwhelming of any human conscience. The English language doesn't have the words to describe it.
     
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  3. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Let's first start with the "Nakba." What is the "Nakba"? "Nakba" in Arabic means "catastrophe" - it is what Arabs call the events which happened in the 1948 Arab-Israeli war, meaning the killing and expelling of Arabs from their land.
    During the 1948 Arab-Israeli war, Arabs also killed and expelled Jews – but why Palestinians don’t it the "Jewish Nakba."?

    Should Germans who were killed and expelled from Eastern Europe call it also a "German Nakba"?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Expellees

    Similarly, should Indians/Pakistanis who were killed and expelled from their land call it also an "Indian/Pakistani Nakba"?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_wars_and_conflicts

    And should Greeks and Turks who were killed and expelled from their land during Turkey's invasion of Cyprus call it also a "Greek/Turkish Nakba"?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypriot_refugees

    Armenians and Azerbaijanis who were killed and expelled from Nagorno-Karabakh should use the term "Nakba" to describe their experiences.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabakh_conflict

    There have indeed been many similar conflicts and forced population displacements throughout history. The question of why the United Nations created a special agency, UNRWA, solely to assist Palestinian refugees, while not creating similar agencies for other refugee populations?

    There are two potential answers:
    1. Contribution of Palestinians to the world civilization and culture makes them worth much more than other people
    2. Palestinians got so many attentions, because their enemies were Jews.

    Once I tried to show videos what Palestinians did on Oct 7 to Israelis (taken from Hamas go pro cameras), but my post was deleted, because we are not allowed to show violence.

    And question about genocide – killing about 1200 Israeli civilians, shooting missiles on Israeli towns is consider genocide, or maybe fight for peace?
     
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  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Obviously, this is no more than "whataboutism" - attempting to use some past crime to justify an ongoing crime today.

    That is the most lame direction you can POSSIBLY choose. There were bank robberies in the past, so I should be allowed to rob banks

    It's hard to get more stupid than that..
    1 is absolutely absurd. We don't assess the value of people and then slaughter those below some line.
    2 is similarly absurd. The western world has supported Israel. NOW, they stand guilty of the atrocities that their support has allowed.

    The USA (for example) is absolutely a guilty party in the genocide in Gaza and the rampages and murders carried out by those Israelis living on stolen land in West Bank.

    Sudan is horrible. But, WE CREATED ISRAEL. We ship them the bombs to drop on civilians in Gaza. We fail to apply the pressure necessary to end the genocide that our actions have made possible.
    NO. Killing 1200 Israelis is absolutely NOT genocide.

    Also, what Israel has promoted about the terrorist attack on October 7 has been found to include major lies.

    It was certainly a despicable terrorist attack, but it did not justify genocide in Gaza. It did not justify the IDF sniping children, destroying all the hospitals, denying them food and water.

    The Israeli government has TOTALLY lost all humanity. And, the Jews I work with do not disagree.
     
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  5. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good morning Zalekbloom,

    While we may have different opinions concerning Middle Eastern realities, I appreciate both your civility and the amount of thought that goes into your comments.
    You have already responded to two of my comments and I am just now finding the time to respond to your first comment to me due to my busy schedule.

    Since the two comments to which you responded were both brief and strident, I feel that I need to clarify that I am not "anti Israel" or in any way hostile to Israel's residents. I recognize and appreciate the many contributions that Israelis have made in the fields of Archeology & Blacksmithing to Zoology. (I worked with some Israeli blacksmiths (Uri Hofi) at an International Blacksmith Convention).

    What I both fear and oppose Israel's militant, right wing expansionists and their "Greater Israel" Settlers who already have detailed plans on how to occupy Gaza and exploit their Sampson option as in the '73 War.

    What Jews and non Jews condemn as Netanyahu's genocide (1), (2) has done more to jeopardize Israel and Jews around the world than anything that Hamas could dream up because I have never seen an Israeli government that has done more to unify Israel's enemies, alienate friendly governments and incite global opposition than the genocidal machinations of Netanyahu, Gallant, Dickter etc.

    You've suggested that I am a victim of Arab propaganda because I oppose Israel's right wing element and its genocidal and expansionist agenda. I am over 73 years old, have been involved in 2 wars, served in combat and, as you know, spent 10 - 11 months living with and among all of its different people.

    Before that, my last military assignment required Top Secret clearance and was with an Airborne, rapid deployment unit whose sole function was to help defend Israel in the event of hostilities. Since peoples' lives depended on the accuracy of that TS information, what we were told was not Arab propaganda.
    We were told that the sole mission of our unit was to defend Israel in the event of hostilities and at the same time not to trust IDF

    What I saw with my own eyes and heard with my own ears from Jews and Arabs during the 10 - 11 months I walked and hitch-hiked throughout the Middle East by myself was not Arab propaganda. For example, since I listen to both sides with equal empathy, I see little difference between Nakba survivors and Holocaust survivors except that Nakba survivors received no reparations and no publicity.
    At least in the US, a day doesn't pass without American audiences being exposed to at least three hyperbolic and melodramatic Holocaust movies - documentaries.

    Meanwhile, I can't ever remember anything ever being shown about the Nakba or interviews with its survivors.
    At the same time, even the distant Japanese notice the egregious pro Israeli bias (aka propaganda") .(3)

    Other sources are more specific in how they report on events to make Israelis more appealing to "us". (4) Such a blatant and pervasive pro Israel bias in Western MSM is really the same as propaganda

    While I have already clarified that I am fully aware that all sides do and have used propaganda since the beginning of time.
    My question is, how can there be any significant pro Arab bias / propaganda when Western MSM is already so blatantly pro Israel?

    I still want to address the degree to which America's government has been manipulated into sacrificing the lives of young, American G.I.s for right wing Zionist regional hegemony (5), (6) and will do so as soon as I can.

    Again, I wish the best for Israel and its many bright, decent and peace seeking people. It is Israel's right wing extremists who are my greatest concern because of their reckless expansionism and Sampson Option.

    Thanks,


    (1). “Jews Against Genocide statement and action”
    http://www.ijan.org/uncategorized/jews-against-genocide-statement-and-action/

    EXCERPT “We, Jews Against Genocide, came to Yad Vashem, Israel’s memorial of the genocide committed against Jews, to honor the Palestinian children who are dying in a genocide committed by Jews.

    We brought dolls to symbolise the children of Gaza, and tried to bring a glimpse of the horror that Gazan’s face, to Israel’s doorstep. We hope to show Israel, and the world, the absurd reality of using the memory of one genocide to justify another.” CONTINUED


    (2). “A Textbook Case of Genocide”

    “Israel has been explicit about what it’s carrying out in Gaza. Why isn’t the world listening?”

    https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide

    EXCERPT "But the assault on Gaza can also be understood in other terms: as a textbook case of genocide unfolding in front of our eyes. I say this as a scholar of genocide, who has spent many years writing about Israeli mass violence against Palestinians. I have written about settler colonialism and Jewish supremacy in Israel, the distortion of the Holocaust to boost the Israeli arms industry, the weaponization of antisemitism accusations to justify Israeli violence against Palestinians, and the racist regime of Israeli apartheid. “ CONTINUED


    (3). “U.S. media coverage reveals a pro-Israel bias”
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2014/09/01/commentary/world-commentary/u-s-media-coverage-reveals-a-pro-israel-bias/#.WMLm5mafK_U

    EXCERPT “Why does TV news look like a Netanyahu ad?” asked Chris McGreal of The Guardian on July 31, in his article on the “notoriously pro-Israel mainstream media in the U.S.” CONTINUED


    (4). “Studies continually show strong pro-Israel bias in western media”
    http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/studies-continually-show-strong-pro-israel-bias-western-media-881718416

    EXCERPT “Mainstream western media outlets are, by and large, infused with a pro-Israeli ideological bias that colors nearly all mainstream Western reporting on Israel-Palestine.

    Israel is assumed to be good, peaceful, and like ‘us’. The Palestinians, meanwhile, are backwards, violent, and foreign. These are the assumptions that most western news outlets start with," CONTINUED


    (5). “Every time anyone says that Israel is our only friend in the Middle East, I can’t help but think that before Israel, we had no enemies in the Middle East.”– John Sheehan, Society of Jesus. (Jesuit priest)



    (6). "Top Pentagon adviser says ‘Israeli lobby’ funds officials who want war"

    "Douglas Macgregor blamed pro-Israel policy for driving the United States into the Iraq conflict after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks,"

    https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/anti...eli-lobby-funds-officials-who-want-war-649228

    EXCERPT "Douglas Macgregor, a top adviser to President Donald Trump’s new acting defense secretary, routinely blames “the Israeli lobby” and “neocons” for pushing the United States into wars.

    CNN’s KFile uncovered interviews in which Macgregor, a decorated combat veteran who appears frequently on Fox News and other conservative media, says “pro-Israel” donors and the pro-Israel lobby are behind efforts to drive the United States into war." CONTINUED
     
  6. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I will answer to your other questions later, but what you wrote is very interesting.
    I don’t have Top Secret clearance, but I never heard about any American unit whose sole function was to help defend Israel in the event of hostilities. Israel is very strong military, never asked for American soldiers to help it, and it there is a military Airborne, rapid deployment unit this unit must have tens of thousand soldiers, otherwise it doesn't make any sense. If there are tens of thousands soldiers in this unit, for sure there must be information about this unit, so I asked 4 different AI this question:
    "Is there US airborne rapid deployment unit whose sole function is to help defend Israel?"

    And here are answers:

    Gemini AI:
    No, the United States doesn't have a dedicated airborne rapid deployment unit solely for Israel's defense. Here's why:
    US Military Alliances: The US has military alliances like NATO, but none specifically for defending a single country like Israel.
    Multipurpose Rapid Deployment: The US does have rapid deployment forces like the 82nd Airborne Division, but they are trained and equipped for various missions globally, not just focused on Israel.
    Political Considerations: Deploying troops is a complex political decision. There wouldn't be a pre-designated unit solely for Israel.
    However, the US does provide significant military aid to Israel and might deploy forces to the region in times of crisis, but not necessarily for direct combat. This could involve:
    Supportive Measures: Sending air defense units, medical support, or logistical assistance.
    Marine Expeditionary Units (MEUs): These multi-purpose units like the 26th MEU can be deployed for amphibious operations, crisis response, and humanitarian aid in the region.
    Remember, US military deployments involve complex political considerations and depend on the specific situation.

    Mistral AI:
    No, there is no specific U.S. airborne rapid deployment unit whose sole function is to defend Israel. The United States has a strong military cooperation with Israel, but there is no dedicated unit for this purpose. The U.S. military is structured to deploy forces as needed to various locations around the world based on strategic priorities and defense agreements, but these forces do not have a single, permanent mission like defending a specific allied country. Any defense support would be part of broader strategic decisions and operations.

    chatGPT AI:
    There isn't a specific US airborne rapid deployment unit solely dedicated to defending Israel. However, the United States and Israel have a close military relationship, and the US provides various forms of military assistance to Israel, including funding, training, and equipment.
    The US and Israel regularly conduct joint military exercises, and the US may deploy forces to the region in times of heightened tension or conflict to support Israel or other allies. However, these deployments typically involve a broader range of military units and capabilities rather than a single specialized unit dedicated solely to defending Israel.

    Claude AI:
    There is no dedicated U.S. airborne rapid deployment unit whose sole function is to help defend Israel. The United States does have certain military forces and capabilities that could potentially be used to assist in the defense of Israel, but there is no specialized unit with that as its exclusive mission.

    The U.S. maintains a global military presence and has long-standing defense cooperation with Israel, but does not have a dedicated rapid reaction force solely focused on Israel's security. The U.S. military's ability to rapidly deploy forces and provide support to allies like Israel falls under the broader scope of its global power projection capabilities.

    If you have more specific questions about U.S. military cooperation or contingency planning related to Israel's defense, I'd be happy to try to provide more detail within the limits of my knowledge. But there is no single, specialized U.S. airborne unit dedicated solely to that purpose.
     
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  7. Day of the Candor

    Day of the Candor Well-Known Member

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  8. Mitty

    Mitty Newly Registered

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  9. Day of the Candor

    Day of the Candor Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, people always try to rationalize radical Muslim terrorism by comparing it to Christianity and Judaism. The truth is that both Christianity and Judaism had very violent, bloody periods of intolerance, warfare, and persecution.

    BUT, with Christianity and Judaism those terrible periods in their histories ended many centuries ago. Today, in the modern era, only one major religion in the world continues to practice these types of vicious, murderous acts against people they call "infidels" -- and that religion is ISLAM!
     
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  10. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    First, the time period I mentioned was over 50 years ago between the '67 War and the '73 War when America was shifting its focus from S.E.Asia to the Middle East.
    After I returned from Laos, I was assigned to the 82nd Airborne Division which did, according to G-2, have its primary focus on the Middle East at that time.

    I don't claim that Top Secret clearance is the highest level of security clearances but you frequently work with people who do.

    I wasn't in Laos or the Middle East very long before I developed a special appreciation for the maxim "Truth is stranger than fiction." and a quote from Shakespeare:

    “And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more / stranger things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

    Anyway, no major US Military unit would admit that it exists solely for the protection of another country but the unit to which I was assigned had weekly briefings, regional maps etc. the sole focus of which was defending Israel and / or negating the need for Israel's Sampson Option that was used for nuclear blackmail in the '73 War.

    I'm sure that you're aware that there are US G.I.s operating the US funded "Iron Dome" and additional US G.I.s stationed in Israel as sitting ducks so that if and when American G.I.s are even accidentally killed by Hamas, Hezbollah etc, Israel's right wingers can more easily manipulate the US into fighting for Israel's regional hegemony so dear to Israel's right wing element.

    I don't think that most of the Israeli people supported America's destruction of Iraq and slaughter of its people but I believe that is irrefutable that AIPAC and Israel's right wing element benefited the most from the destruction of another Muslim threat to Zionist expansionism
    .
    Additionally, the US gained nothing by violently enforcing UN Resolution # 678 against Saddam while continuing to ignore UN Resolutions #242 and # 338.
    This double standard is not lost on the regional Muslims.

    I have spent quite a bit of time in V.A. Hospitals with younger American G.I.s who had been mutilated, burned and traumatized primarily because right wing Israeli lobbies dominate US Middle East policy.

    You can disagree but it is an irrefutable fact that every other lobby from every other country in the world but Israel has to register as a Foreign Agent.
    Why are only Israeli lobbies given this special treatment by the US Government that just happens to give Israel more "aid" than any other country?

    Concerning American troops already in Israel to defend Israel, what is especially repulsive to other loyal Americans is that US Troops will be put under Israeli command as cannon fodder in the event of hostilities.
    50 years ago, it was unheard of to expect American soldiers to be under control of a foreign government.

    I have intentionally posted "right wing" in bold to show that I do not oppose Israel or all its people.
    It is just Israel's right wing extremists that I feel are doing the most damage to both Israel's and America's long term best interests.

    I know that I have drifted off topic but hope that I have answered your question.

    Enjoy your weekend,


    (1). "US Commander: ‘US Troops Prepared to Die for Israel’ in War against Syria, Hezbollah"
    https://www.mintpressnews.com/israe...a-harbinger-of-war-on-syria-hezbollah/238768/

    EXCERPT "Beyond the fact that Israel is preparing to go to war with several countries simultaneously is the fact that U.S. ground troops are now “prepared to die for the Jewish state,” according to U.S. Third Air Force Commander Lt. Gen. Richard Clark.

    However, more troubling than the fact that U.S. troops stand ready to die at Israel’s behest was Clark’s assertion that Haimovitch would “probably” have the last word as to whether U.S. forces would join the IDF during war time. In other words, the IDF will decide whether or not U.S. troops become embroiled in the regional war for which Israel is preparing, not the United States." CONTINUED


    (2). "U.S. Soldiers Sacrificial Lambs"
    http://americanfreepress.net/u-s-soldiers-sacrificial-lambs/

    EXCERPT "During the recent bilateral military exercises, Air Force Lt. Gen. Richard Clark enthused that American soldiers are “prepared to die for the Jewish state” and also added that they would “probably” be under the command of Israeli Air Force Gen. Zvika Haimovitch, who would decide on the involvement of U.S. personnel. Haimovitch commented, “I am sure . . . we will find U.S. troops on the ground . . . to defend the state of Israel.” CONTINUED
     
  11. Mitty

    Mitty Newly Registered

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    What about the terrorism committed by the US against the Vietnamese and Iraqi's and Afghani's etc, and the terrorism being committed in Gaza against the Palestinians?
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2024
  12. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Yes. The Palestinians that took part in the 10/7 massacure should die.
     
  13. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    First, let me write some fact which should be obvious to anyone using any internet forum:
    Anyone - including me - can be paid troll, mentally sick or just pathological liar, so always check the validity of their arguments, verify the sources of information he/she is using.

    So I did my due diligence and this is what I found:

    The United States doesn't have a dedicated airborne rapid deployment unit solely for Israel's defense. It is also common sense – the existential threat to Israel is by countries, and in such case dedicated unit solely for Israel's defense will have the same structures as US units employed for defense of Europe, South Korea, Japan, Italy, United Kingdom and more. So for me the claim that the United States have or had a secret, dedicated airborne rapid deployment unit solely for Israel's defense is a fake news/conspiracy theory.

    You posted some information based on the “Mintpress News” and “American Free Press”.
    I did my due diligence and this is what I found:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News

    We are living in a free world and we have freedom to trust the New Bible, the Old Bible, Quran, Vedas or “Mintpress News” or “American Free Press”.
    I don’t trust “Mintpress News” and “American Free Press” but you have the right to trust them.

    You wrote “I have intentionally posted "right wing" in bold to show that I do not oppose Israel or all its people”.
    Yes, this is a change in our Western culture – now it is politically incorrect to hate Black, Jews or gays, so people who hate Blacks claim they do not oppose Blacks, they only oppose Black criminals. People who hate Jews claim they do not oppose Israel or Jews, they oppose Israeli “right wing”, few years ago when Israel was ruled by the Left they only opposed “left wing”. People who hate gays claim they do not hate gays, they oppose pedophiles and gay propaganda.

    Thank God we still cannot find what people really think, love or hate, but we can see what people write, which sources they use. If someone constantly write about Jews/Israel crimes (for sure Jews and Israel committed some bad things) and constantly defends Palestinians/Arabs crimes, if he/she uses as sources which are known for spreading anti-Semitic conspiracy theories – I don’t believe such person has objective attitude toward Jews and Israel.
     
  14. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is entirely your right to believe or not believe anything I write.

    First, I am unimpressed by by AI as some sort of magical "Silver bullet" of truthfulness.
    Regrettably, the value of time consuming, honest research and simple life experience is lost on those looking for the "Fast Food" of information.

    I don't know how old you are, where you've been or what your world experiences have been but it doesn't sound like you were even alive over 50 years ago. I also doubt that you have served in the US Military or had access to classified material or military operations in any country.

    If you were to use your same "due diligence" on AI and Wikipedia you would know that both are only as reliable as the information provided to them which generally reflects pro Israel MSM.(1)

    It is a commonly known fact that American G.I.s are in Israel in conjunction with the "Iron Dome" program.
    So, if AI is wrong about there being no US troops in Israel, it has proven itself unreliable in general.
    It's that simple.

    It doesn't matter if it tells you what you want to hear, it's still unreliable.

    The slightest amount of "due diligence" on Wikipedia reveals that it is Zionist dominated (2), (3) so, of course it's going to slander any independent media source.
    That same due diligence, if done uniformly, shows that Wikipedia, itself, admits that it is unreliable.
    Why haven't you noticed that Wikipedia admits that it is unreliable if you were objective in your due diligence?

    "Reliability of Wikipedia"
    "EXCERPT "Because Wikipedia cannot be considered a reliable source, the use of Wikipedia is not accepted in many schools and universities in writing a formal paper, and some educational institutions have banned it as a primary source while others have limited its use to only a pointer to external sources." CONTINUED


    The bulk of my previous comment has to do with either the ZOA or AIPAC's control over America's Middle East Policy and its history of manipulating the US into unwinnable wars that benefit mainly Israel.

    I've already shown where that was the case in the selective enforcement of UN Resolution # 678 and it has long been common knowledge that Israel's war mongers want to soak distant Iranian soil wit the blood of young American G.I.s for the sake of Israel's regional hegemony / "Greater Israel".

    For example:

    "Hawkish Israel Is Pulling U.S. Into War With Iran"
    https://theintercept.com/2023/03/01/us-israel-iran-war/

    EXCERPT "The Biden administration is appearing to endorse Israel's escalations against Iran — a move that would necessitate U.S. involvement in a new Middle East conflict no one wants.
    The U.S. has continued to support Israel’s increasingly hawkish Iran policies, including its “octopus doctrine” of strikes inside Iran as well as at Iranian targets throughout the region." CONTINUED

    I don't doubt that Ziono-pedia dislikes "The Intercept" too no matter how honest their assessments may be but, briefly put, more and more Americans are fed up with aid and abetting Zionist expansionism with $ Trillions in resources and the blood of young American G.I.s.

    You don't need AI to see that America's policy makers of tomorrow might not be as obedient to AIPAC, ZOA, the ADL as the current crop of subservient US politicians. (4)



    (1). “Studies continually show strong pro-Israel bias in western media”
    http://www.middleeasteye.net/column...trong-pro-israel-bias-western-media-881718416

    EXCERPT “Mainstream western media outlets are, by and large, infused with a pro-Israeli ideological bias that colors nearly all mainstream Western reporting on Israel-Palestine.

    Israel is assumed to be good, peaceful, and like ‘us’. The Palestinians, meanwhile, are backwards, violent, and foreign. These are the assumptions that most western news outlets start with,..." CONTINUED


    (2). "Course: Zionist Editing on Wikipedia"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t52LB2fYhoY


    (3) "Zionist Control of WikiPedia"
    http://www.ascertainthetruth.com/at...ls-the-media/429-zionist-control-of-wikipedia


    (4). "Israel faces growing U.S. ire on war in Gaza"
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...el-gaza-war-poll-americans-opposed-rcna145418

    EXCERPT "Sheline's decision to follow suit came as a Gallup poll released Wednesday found that growing numbers of Americans now oppose Israel’s military action in Gaza, an apparent shift in U.S. views.

    The poll, conducted from March 1 to March 20, found that 55% of respondents said they disapprove of Israel's actions in Gaza, compared with 45% who expressed disapproval in November.

    The share of those in favor of Israel's actions fell from 50% in November to 36% in March, while the percentage of those who said they had no stance rose from 4% to 9%.

    The poll, which surveyed 1,016 adults living across all 50 states and the District of Columbia, had a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points." CONTINUED
     
  15. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Grau: “I am unimpressed by AI as some sort of magical "Silver bullet" of truthfulness.”

    AI is not a silver bullet. Yes, sometimes AI gives wrong answers (called in tech slang ‘hallucinations’) and this is the reason I asked 4 different AI machines.

    BTW – I didn’t ask AI is there are any US troops in Israel, I asked: "Is there US airborne rapid deployment unit whose sole function is to help defend Israel?".

    Yes, Wikipedia is not 100% reliable, but what other options we have in our discussions? “Trust me”? Trust an anonymous internet site?
    If you have a better way to find the truth, let me know and I will use it, meantime, AI and Wikipedia are the best tools an average Joe can use.

    Thank you for thinking I am a young stud, but unfortunately I am an old fart, I was well alive and kicking 50 years ago, I lived in a few countries (the US is my 3rd long term country), I read news in 4 languages, so I have some idea about the world we are living in.

    I didn’t serve in the US Military, but you don’t have to serve in the military to know in which countries US has military bases.
    Are there some US GI in Israel on temporary basis? Of course they are. For example after Israel got the Russian MIG-21 from Iraq, for sure some GIs visited Israel to learn about this airplane:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Diamond

    After Israel got Russian P-12 radar from Egyptians, for sure some GIs visited Israel to learn about this radar.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rooster_53

    After Israel using American fighters jets shot down 88 Syrian planes, for sure some GIs visited Israel to learn about this fight:
    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...wn-88-syrian-fighter-jets-famous-battle-69816

    And there is much military and technological cooperation between the US and Israel, so for sure some GI are coming to Israel to learn how the US military products perform during fights.

    So you didn’t show any EVIDENCE that AI was wrong, you only said (paraphrasing) – “trust me, AI is wrong”.

    About the links you showed:

    (1). “Studies continually show strong pro-Israel bias in western media”.
    Is Western Media generally pro-Israeli? Probably yes. Why? Because Israel is Western democracy, while Arab countries/Palestinians groups are generally Muslims and undemocratic and support religious Muslim values.


    (2). "Course: Zionist Editing on Wikipedia".
    Typical anti-Semitic propaganda. It was not ‘Zionist’ but Israeli class how to prevent spreading anti-Semitic, anti-Israeli fake news on social media. In the world there are 1.8 billion Muslims (about 24% of the global population), 422 million Arabs (about 5% of the global population) and 14.8 million Jews (about 0.2% of the global population). Any person can try to change Wikipedia according to his/hers view, so this is the way 0.2% population tries to fight fake news spread by 24%/5% of the world population.
    Not any change Wikipedia will accept – you have to show believable evidence – I changed Wikipedia few times and I am sure the evidence “Trust me, I know because I served in this unit” Wikipedia will now accept.

    3). "Zionist Control of WikiPedia" - I got response: This page isn’t working.

    (4) "Israel faces growing U.S. ire on war in Gaza",
    True. Israel is not doing enough to prevent civilian causalities and Hamas is doing what it can to increase civilian death. Thanks to smart Hamas propaganda Western demonstrators are not aware that Hamas is fundamental Muslim organization who refuses to make any peace with Israel, wants to replace Israel with Muslim Caliphate where ‘from the river to the sea, women, gays, lesbians, atheist and apostates will free according the Sharia law’.

    Western demonstrators forgot that the war was started by Hamas on Oct 7, where Hamas murdered, raped and kidnapped children, women and old people and that Hamas promised to make more such attacks. And still Hamas keeps over 100 hostages.

    The question I would like to ask American pro-Hamas demonstrators: what would be their reaction if Mexico attacked the US wanting back territories lost in 1846–48 Mexican–American War, murdering, raping and kidnapping Americans.
     
  16. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Every Palestinian engaged in the 10/6/23 invasion of Israel must die.
     
  17. Day of the Candor

    Day of the Candor Well-Known Member

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    I had responded to your post 183 which was your spin on the aspect of religion in the Muslim terrorism. Now you want to change everything by dragging in unsubstantiated "terrorism" from Vietnam (60 years ago) and misguided foreign policy by the Bush and Obama administrations? That's very elastic of you.

    But to follow on with your spin about religion, can you respond to my statement that the only major religion in the world that advocates terrorism against other people on the basis of their religion is ISLAM?! If so, name names! What other religion does that?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2024
  18. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If I am to respond to your comment at all, I must be brief and stay closer to the topic of this thread.

    The reason that you got an answer that you wanted is because you didn't phrase my claim accurately.
    I never said that there are Airborne rapid response / deployment units for Israel today because there there are already far more US Troops in Israel and the immediate region than 50+ years ago.
    It's as if I stated: "Dinosaurs walked in Western America." and you fed AI: "Dinosaurs walking in Western America."
    Of course AI is going to tell you that dinosaurs and not currently walking in Western America.
    That's just one of the ways in which AI can be manipulated.

    Re:
    I think that most people would agree that the best way to learn about any region is to go there and take the time to talk to people on both sides of an issue, read a wide variety of sources other than pro Israel, Western MSM.

    Reading the same Western, pro Israel MSM in different languages is still jus reading the same disinformation.

    Re:
    I only noticed how carefully you evaded mentioning the American troops permanently stationed in Israel that have been operating the Iron Dome which, like many things in Israel, is subsidized by American taxpayers.

    You also failed to mention that there are currently about 46,000 US G.I.s in the region for the primary purpose of enabling Israeli regional hegemony.
    For what reason is there so much American hardware and so many American G.I.s surrounding Israel except to aid and abet right wing Zionist genocide and defend Israel?

    Re:
    First of all, "Western demonstrators" aren't the only people around the world opposing Netanyahu's criminal genocide and, as I stated, most people around the world oppose Israel's genocidal agenda:

    "Half of Young People Say Israel Is Committing Genocide Despite Strong Media Bias"
    https://truthout.org/articles/half-...ommitting-genocide-despite-strong-media-bias/

    Secondly, the transparently desperate intimation that the 80 year old, systematic extermination of Gaza's long tormented residents "started" on 7 October 2023 shows a shocking ignorance of the decades old conflict.

    Next, whatever is happening in Gaza, today, it's not a "war".
    No one who has studied war or been in a war regards dumping hundreds of tons of bombs on unarmed, starving and homeless men, women and children as a "war".

    Finally, attempting to discredit people opposed to all genocides as "Hamas supporters" only shows the desperation of Netanyahu's apologists.
     
  19. Mitty

    Mitty Newly Registered

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    That's no different to the terrorism by the Zionists against the Palestinian women and children, where the Zionists use their religion and biblical history and myths to justify dispossessing the Palestinians of their land which they have occupied for millennia, and to destroy their houses and schools and hospitals etc in order to resettle the area with Zionists.

    The American war against the Vietnamese was an act of terrorism, given that Vietnam was no threat to the US, and particularly the US commands to butcher women and children and destroy their villages, and the use of napalm & agent orange etc for ideological reasons and American Imperialism. Same same for the US attack against Iraq and Afghanistan.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2024
    Grau likes this.
  20. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry if I asked AI wrong question, because you wrote “After I returned from Laos, I was assigned to the 82nd Airborne Division which did, according to G-2, have its primary focus on the Middle East at that time.”.
    Anyway, I asked again 4 different AI “Is there US military unit whose sole function is to help defend Israel?” and got similar answers.
    If you have any evidence such unit exist, show it, or we will assume there is no evidence such unit exist.

    You wrote “I think that most people would agree that the best way to learn about any region is to go there and take the time to talk to people on both sides of an issue, read a wide variety of sources other than pro Israel, Western MSM.”
    I disagree. The best way to learn about the region is to read what Academia in Democratic countries found. I lived in the Middle East, in university I shared floor with Arab students, but today you can learn from Internet more info then talking to people. There are many things Israeli and Palestinians did they will never tell you, because they don’t know or because they are ashamed. But you can learn about bad things Israel done reading Israeli historians like Ilan Pappé or Benny Morris.
    If Palestinians had similar people who are looking for truth, we could learn more about:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gush_Etzion
    or
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

    You wrote: “I only noticed how carefully you evaded mentioning the American troops permanently stationed in Israel that have been operating the Iron Dome which, like many things in Israel, is subsidized by American taxpayers.”
    Iron Dome was developed by Israel with help of US finding and is operated only by Israeli soldiers, no American GI operating Iron Dome in Israel. If you have any evidence – show it to us,

    You wrote: “You also failed to mention that there are currently about 46,000 US G.I.s in the region for the primary purpose of enabling Israeli regional hegemony”.
    Your argument is perfect for poorly educated, but let me show why it will not work with educated people.

    What is in the Middle East which the US and the rest of the world prizes? Gold? Jews? Palestinians? Oil?
    Every educated person will guess – it is oil.

    Another question: which counties on the Middle East have the most oil, Jewish country or Arab countries?
    Every educated person will guess – Arab countries.

    Another question: which oil rich countries were recently attacked and by whom in the last 50 years?
    Every educated person will guess – Iran was attacked by Iraq, Kuwait was attacked by Iraq, Yemen was attacked by Saudi Arabia.

    Israel is the strongest country in the Middle East. When Israel felt threatened by Iraqi nuclear Iraq, it promptly destroyed this reactor:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera

    When Israel felt threaten by Syrian nuclear reactor, it promptly destroyed the reactor:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Outside_the_Box

    When Israel felt threaten by Iraqi supergun, Israel promptly removed the threat:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Babylon

    Conclusion: yes, poorly educated would believe that about 46,000 US G.I.s in the region for the primary purpose of enabling Israeli regional hegemony.

    You wrote “First of all, "Western demonstrators" aren't the only people around the world opposing Netanyahu's criminal genocide and, as I stated, most people around the world oppose Israel's genocidal agenda.

    True, Western and other demonstrators forgot that the war was started by Hamas on Oct 7, where Hamas murdered, raped and kidnapped children, women and old people and that Hamas promised to make more such attacks. And still Hamas keeps over 100 hostages. And Hamas according to its chapter plans to replace Israel with Muslim caliphate, where women, gays, lesbians, atheists, apostates will be as free as Sharia laws allow.

    So important question is – why people who fight for equal rights of gays, demand separation of state and religion, demands abortions rights for women, are against killing of innocent people, against rapes – support organization who is totally against it?

    Well, I don’t expect any answer from you, the same I didn’t expected the answer to my question:
    “The question I would like to ask American pro-Hamas demonstrators: what would be their reaction if Mexico attacked the US wanting back territories lost in 1846–48 Mexican–American War, murdering, raping and kidnapping Americans.”

    You wrote: “Finally, attempting to discredit people opposed to all genocides as "Hamas supporters" only shows the desperation of Netanyahu's apologists”
    I don’t see there any desperation – I watch Hamas supported demonstrations and didn’t see any sign condemning rapes and killing on Oct 7 or demanding from Hamas to release hostages. The fact demonstrators don't care about rapes committed by Hamas, don't care about murders committed by Hamas don't care about hostages and don't care that Hamas promised more similar attacks on Israel. So it is no desperation, it is recognizing sad fact the for many people Jewish life depending on context.
     
  21. Bridget

    Bridget Well-Known Member

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    So why do you think no one wants them?
     
  22. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    We should ask the countries around them, for example Egypt and Jordan.
     
  23. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    Guns and precision missiles didn't stop Hamas terrorists from infiltrating Israel and kidnapping, raping, and killing. Hamas is supported by at least a good percentage of the Palestinian people. They could not do what they do without that support. Hamas decided to perpetrate Oct 7th with no care for the effect it will have on the civilian population. What did they think would happen? They knew exactly what would happen and they did it anyway, actually they did precisely because of it. Everything they are reaping was brought on them BY them.

    It's definitely a humanitarian crisis, but this goes back to my original question. Why is it only Israel that is expected to change? Israel's response was provoked, deliberately. Why are we not expecting Palestinians to change? Should they get a pass because Israel has more guns and missiles? If you think so in any way, I'm afraid you're part of why this conflict will never end, because it will always be tit for tat, a neverending cycle of revenge that does nothing but enrich high level leaders who are hundreds of miles from any of the actual conflicts.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2024
  24. Day of the Candor

    Day of the Candor Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree that wars and conflicts over many places including Vietnam and the Middle East have taken place between various ethnic groups for thousands of years, but the Vietnam War had nothing to do with any particular religion. The complete opposite is true in Gaza where nearly everyone is a Muslim, and Islam does promote war against Judaism and Christianity because to Muslims both of them are "infidels".
     
  25. Mitty

    Mitty Newly Registered

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    Is that why the Zionists are now committing genocide of the Palestinians?

    And why did the US attack the Vietnamese and commit war crimes and crimes against humanity and even wanted to nuke them to support French colonialism in 1954, given that Vietnam was no threat whatsoever to the US?
     

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