Should residents of Gaza considering moving elsewhere????

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by DennisTate, Feb 4, 2024.

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Should residents of Gaza move somewhere else???

  1. Yes

    2 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. If I lived in Gaza... I would want to move for the sake of the children and grandchildren!!!!

    1 vote(s)
    33.3%
  4. No... Allah will drive the Israeli Jews into the Mediterranean and Red Seas!!!!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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    I said more but you refuse to read. Have you figured out what a byline is yet?

    Smith was paid $21,250 to lie for Israel. That's just the publicly known compensation.

    https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/chris-smith/summary?cid=N00009816&cycle=2024&type=I
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2024
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  2. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This looks like a job for "Moshiach ben Ephrayim" and / or "The Prince of the Tribe of Dan" and / or the final Elijah type of person????????????????????

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...f-elijah-needed.499830/page-7#post-1074653038


     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2024
  4. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    After they pledged to wipe the country of Germany and it's people's off the face of the earth?
     
  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It pledges genocide and the elimination of Israel and it's people's.
     
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  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes..... and in my opinion.....

    from what I have read Hamas and Hezbollah are NOT really following the Koran.......

    they are obeying Communist and Atheist OPERATIVES who will throw millions and millions and millions and millions

    of dollars at leaders who will make sure that SHALOM DOES NOT come to the Middle East!!!!!

    The way that Hamas and Hezbollah have gotten rid of any Palestinians who were CHRISTIANS or Messianic Jewish

    gives us a good idea of how Israeli Jews would be treated if Hamas and Hezbollah were to gain any more power over any more territory in the Holy Land!

    Actually.... the way that the hostages were treated after being kidnapped on October 7, 2023 gives us an even better idea of how Jews would be treated

    if Hamas and Hezbollah gained more power and influence in the Holy Land.

    We could also look at how ISIS treated Yazidis as they gained influence before Trump dealt with them in the only way that works!


    https://www.tldm.org/news9/russianinfluenceonmideast.htm




    Here is what I mean by writing that I do not think that Hamas and Hezbollah are really obeying the Koran either!


    Here is an ancient ISLAMIC PREDICTION that holds the key to Shalom in the Middle East AND ALSO TO BREAKING THE WORLD ECONOMY OUT OF A PATH INTO A BEAR MARKET THAT BIDEN AND TRUDEAU SEEM TO BE INTENT ON DRIVING US INTO!!!!


     
    Last edited: May 5, 2024
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  7. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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    False.
     
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  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So then.....
    I take it that YOU do NOT BELIEVE that President Yury Andropov initiated a policy to attempt to turn the majority of one billion Muslims against Israel......

    and the United States???????

    This does sound like something that the KGB would come up with?????

    https://www.tldm.org/news9/russianinfluenceonmideast.htm


     
  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    False it is true and the rioters are chanting their motto pledging it.
     
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  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You might just enjoy this new discussion and poll......



    Did President Yury Andropov attempt to turn the majority of Muslims....

    against Israel and against the United States........
    because the USA tended to support Israel?


    To my thinking.....
    this is not exactly rocket science......

    I think that this is a fairly simple YES!!!!!!!!!!

     
  11. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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    That was not the turning point in Soviet-Israeli relations.

    As you know, the Soviets fully supported their Communist allies - Israel in the 40s and early 50s. Unfortunately, instead of adopting the internationalist communist socialism of the U.S.S.R., they adopted a nationalist socialism. In addition, instead of adopting autarky, they decided to work openly with western more capitalist societies. Relations remained relatively cordial until 1969.

    The turning point occurred in 1969, Golda Meir demanded Russia send all its Jews to Israel. The ensuing Dymshits-Kutznetsov hijacking affair caused the U.S.S.R. to really fight Israel ideologically.

    But for Yury Andropov and the Soviets, the fight was ideological - not religious or racial. The Soviets were pitting the ideology of international socialism against the ideology of national socialism. If one reads a book like A Day in the Life of Abed Salama, they'll quickly understand the battle is between socialist ideologies as oppose to a religious or racial ideologies. After all, many Palestinians look just like the European "Jews". Just look up the pictures of all the dead Palestinian children on Twitter - got a thousand examples.

    I personally oppose both types of socialism, but the PLO was a secular international socialist enterprise - one reason why, despite the funding, they failed so badly. Trying to equate the PLO to Islam is silly.

    So, with this understanding, one can see that Yuri was not trying to turn the Muslims against the U.S. Yuri was turning the international communists against the national socialism of Israel. Yuri was an atheist - like most Israelis are. Yuri thought religion was a hoax used to dupe the common people. Yuri preferred to work with those who were like-minded - Yuri would exclude fervent Muslims.
     
  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well historically the kind of war they're fighting only works against foreign invaders. The Jews live there now, and have for a few generations. You cant have a successful insurgency/guerrilla war like Afghanistan when you're living in the society of your enemy. To my knowledge that has never resulted in victory.
     
  13. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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    Algeria, Ireland, South Africa just to name a few.

    The main difference is that Israel is willing to commit genocide.
     
  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But what about the fact that the Islamic regime over the Palestinians made life impossible for Palestinian Christians and Messianic Jews......

    so they left The Holy Land and moved to other nations?

    In the past about twenty percent of the population of Palestinians were Christians but that is now down to about two percent........

    in my opinion the Islamic regime over the Palestinians did not protect Christians from their Islamic neighbours so.... they left the territory controlled by the Palestinian Authority.

    If Palestinian Christians can go to territory controlled by Israel.....

    they do tend to stay there because they are generally protected there.

    This article blames Israel for the Exodus of Christians... but at least this was a source of the up to date statistic that only about two percent of the Palestinians identify as Christians.......

    .. in 1946 i believe that number would have been about twenty percent........

    and the numbers in Lebanon are even more surprising.


    Israel behind ‘Christian exodus’ from Palestine
    Study by Palestinian university finds that Christians blame stresses brought on by occupation for dwindling population.


    This article is more informative....... and objective.....

    ....
    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/44905/why-are-christians-leaving-palestinian-territories


     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2024
  15. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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    This is simply false and not based in reality.

    remember the phrase by Trump - "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on."

    Trump Calls For 'Total And Complete Shutdown Of Muslims Entering' U.S. : NPR

    One of the benefits of being Christian is that immigration to the U.S., Australia, and other places is actually an option. It's because Christians are seen as less "terroristy". People in western countries find Islam to be foreign and strange. This lack of familiarity leads them to believe Muslims must be dangerous. This ignorance and religious bigotry have lead to an immigration policy which allows Christians in but not Muslims.

    So, Palestinians with a Christian background like Sirhan Sirhan are easily able to immigrate to the U.S. after his land and property are confiscated in the U.S. This is despite the fact that they obviously perform "terrorist" activity against Zionism in the U.S. and other countries they move to. Or a Palestinian Christian from Nazareth who claimed to have a Jewish mother and traveled to Germany to lead a business venture - Luttif Afif.

    And then you have the nice Palestinian Catholic from Jifna. He decided to go the peaceful route and decided to write a book of poetry and visit Boston where free speech obviously doesn't reign. Speaking against Zionism is considered violent terrorism by Zionists and Israel, so they blew him up. Bombs are always Israeli's favorite method of murder.
    All the territory is controlled by Israel. Here I'll let Netanyahu remind you.

    Netanyahu brandishes map of Israel that includes West Bank and Gaza at UN speech | The Times of Israel

    Arguing that Palestinians are in control of any territory is like arguing that the prisoners are in charge of Riker's Island.

    Native Palestinians outside Israel's open air prisons have limited rights as second class citizens but are actually allowed to live. Palestine is their native land and they obviously wish to live there.
    Lebanon is a sad situation where Israel used the Christians to cause a coup which has destroyed the power-sharing system which existed prior to Israel. The Sabra and Shatila massacre caused immense hatred against the Christians in power forcing many to flee after the IDF was forced out.
    The study was funded by the Philos Project. They are far from objective.

    The Philos Project: a modern version of a colonial missionary project for the Arab world – Mondoweiss

    Here's a documentary about Christians speaking in their own words about what has happened.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2024
  16. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    It is ridiculous for anyone other than Palestinians to speak for themselves and their future. For the rest of you far from the conflict and unaware of their actual situation your speculation is meaningless.

    1. No Arab League country or Iran will offer Palestinians refugee status or citizenship-and so they can not move to an Arabic speaking nation even if they wanted to.

    2. Arab League nations are the only countries in the world who refuse people BORN IN THEIR NATIONS citizenship. They say if those people born in their nation are related to "Palestinians" they will never be given citizenship and kept in prison camps as hostages until such time as Israel is turned into a second Palestinian state of Muslims only.

    3. Britain illegally and unilaterally declared Jordan as a Jew free Palestinian state since 1923. It was Jordan who in 1948 seized and annexed the West Bank. From 1923 to 1967, anyone on the West Bank could move to Jordan if they were not Jewish and automatically apply for citizens of the Palestinian Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan which to this day in its government crests is referenced as a Palestinian state. Jordan only ceased providing Palestinians citizenship in Jordan after the failed Black Sabbath uprising in 1967. Up until that time Palestinians had their Jewish free state, did not refer to themselves as Palestinians and in fact most Palestinian leaders including Arafat ridiculed the notion of using the word Palestinian to describe any Arabic speaking Muslim of the Middle East.

    4.Only after Arafat was expelled to Tunisia did he take the word "Palestinian" and revise it to mean the Arabic speaking Muslims living in Jordan as well as Arabic speaking Muslims who left Israel in 1949 when it became a state and their offspring born in other nations.

    5. The definition of refugee for Palestinians was changed by the UN to have a different meaning for hem. Any person who feels a sovereign nation due to persecution is defined as a refugee. In the case of Palestinians its been extended to give them refugee status no other refugee has. So to start with children of those Palestinians who left Israel born in other countries are also defined as refugees. Those born of refugees outside the refugees original country are NOT defined as refugees. Next refugees must prove their country of origin and the persecution they fled, but not Palestinians. In fact as I write this, anyone who is NOT a Jew can self identify as a Palestinian refugee. There is no formal test and so you will find most "Palestinians" on the West Bank are not. They flooded into the area because of a deliberate British policy to water down the Jewish population to prevent a Jewish state. Arafat blew up the land titles office on the West Bank to hide the fact that non Palestinian Muslims came to the West Bank and stole the land from the Muslims already there.


    6. People born in and on the West Bank whether they are Jews or Muslims or Christians are all connected to that land, However with the extended Palestinian definition, only Muslims born on the West Bank can be Palestinians not Jews. In regards to Christians the Palestinian Authority and Hamas have said when they turn the West Bank into a "Palestinian" state, this MUST include Jordan and Israel. The state will be a Muslim caliphate. Both have sad the Ultra Orthodox Jews of the West Bank in Hebron who refuse to recognize a state of Israel will be deported not withstanding they are not Zionists and march along with them against Israel in protests.

    7. Christians in this Palestinian caliphate would be defined as dhimmi, inferior second class citizens with no equal rights, including no right to own land, live in certain areas, gather in groups of more than 5, have churches larger than mosques, on and on.

    8. What we know is that Christians, Chaldeans, Zoroastrians, Bahaiis, Druze, Jews, Beduins, Berbers, unpopular sects of Islam, the Kurds, all in Muslim sharia law nations have been persecuted and treated poorly and targeted for mass murder. We know Jews were unilaterally expelled from Gaza. We know 900,000 Jews were expelled from Muslim nations from 1949-1952 in retaliation for Israel becoming a nation. The Jews who do now remain in many Arab countries live in fear of retaliation of what Israel does. They is no distinction of Jew from an Israeli and so when you hear my fellow idiot Jews of the West or other Westerners claim Hamas only is at war with Zionist Jews think again. That is bullsheeyat. All Jews are not divided from Israelis.

    9. Palestinians born in camps in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan are Christian or Muslim. They had no control of where they were born and their camps are human rights travesties and all the anti Israelis ignore this and how the Arab League has held them hostage and discriminates against them. Those Palestinians should not be lumped into the same category as those who live in Gaza or the West Bank.

    10.Many Palestinians chose to use special status under the UN to obtain refugee status in the West.

    11.The majority of moderate Palestinians who get along and want a two state solution with Israel and left for other countries would not want to go back. They would not want to return to the camps or the West Bank or Gaza because they could be killed for their moderate views.

    12. Unlike most of the people on this forum, I have been inside the camps, on the West Bank and in Gaza. I also have been to Lebanon, Jordan.

    13. As a volunteer I was taught as a Zionist NOT to hate Palestinians. I saw in reality many are controlled and trapped by their own terror organizations and brainwashed to believe their only option with Israel is war by terror.

    14. I did get spit at and had rocks thrown at me on the West Bank by both Israeli settlers, Ultra Orthodox anti Israeli Jews and Palestinians. I also was assisted when tending to people by good people both Israeli and Palestinian. I worked with specific members of the then PLO who were against terrorism and needed my help providing first aid to the vulnerable. I witnessed certain cells of terrorists come at night and grab children to recruit or use pregnant women, people with disabilities, infirmed seniors as covers to carry weapons or bombs.

    15. I know the conditions where Palestinians live. As a Zionist I never was taught they deserve to live trapped and without hope. I was taught we need to live peacefully side by side in our different countries and share.

    16. As a Zionist unlike Christians or Muslims I was not indoctrinated in Judaism. My choice as to how I practiced the religion was not discussed. My concept of God is that all life forms bleed the same colour and blow up and rot the same way. It is not more complex. Its not one of feelings. It is one of existential resignation to the fact that for many, religion will be used to close their minds to compromise. I have seen extremists in all religions so far well truthfully not in the Beduins I met and studied and not with the Bahaiis both who were very respectful of me and would laugh at me.

    17. Palestinians from what they told me and that is who I repeat:
    i-want a peaceful nation side by side Israel and Jordan and share water, electricity, sanitation disposal, hospitals;
    ii-despair that violence will never end;
    iii-they are petrified of terrorists, Hamas, the PA, Fatah Hawks, Jewish extremist settlers, anyone in a military uniform or police uniform of any kind;
    iv-some feel all their problems would go away if all Jews killed on the planet and Israel and the West Bank cleansed of all Jews.

    It depends on who you speak to and have access to. I know personally members of specific cells in the PA that would have slowly tortured me and skinned me alive and some who left to go to the West because they realized they could not live with the pressures expected of their cell.

    So? What do you think a Palestinian would say? They would tell you I would live anywhere if my children had access to clean water, fresh food, safe clean housing, a hospital, school, and a future where they would live without crime and violence no different than any other human.

    Ironically that is all Israelis want and yet we have arm chair experts on the role presuming to understand both and speak for them.

    I do not. I only can repeat what I saw and heard. I have zero right to speak for an Israeli or Palestinian. I only claim to respect them both for the same reasons.

    My open bias is I reject any form of terrorism.

    I do not and would never claim to know what percentage of all Palestinians are terrorists let alone their supporters just as I can not tell you accurately just how many extremist terrorist Israelis there are.

    I can tell you from first hand experience, extremist Israelis are put in jail and when I was spit on and ambushed the people who did this claiming to be Israeli or Palestinian did not represent either, just their own anger and rage.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2024
  17. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Their country still exists, they just won't as much free stuff if they go live there, is all, and in any case Arabs got 85% of the Mandate, so any new states can be carved out of that, not Israel. Never any criticism of Jordan for driving the feral animals out, and they certainly didn't do anything positive for Lebanon, so demanding these homicidal clowns get their own state is not even remotely sane; just ask all the other Arabs who don't want them either.
     
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  18. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I call it a 'mass death event'. Whether Israel seeks to exterminate the Gazan people , or sees the towns, villages and cities as a series of anthills to be flattened and buried under molten cement for later Israeli development projects, is for a later generation of analysts to determine. The result is going to be the same
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2024
  19. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Its not the surface. Its the tunnels underneath.
     
  20. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your comments but I do not agree with calling all Palestinians feral animals. As a pro Israel supporter I will not demonize Palestinians as the many pro Palestinians and Hamas do with all Jews and Israelis. Two wrongs do not make a right. But your other comments, I strongly support.

    Jordan sitting back and being held exempt from this conflict and for that matter Iran is dispicable.
     
  21. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    That presupposes that the ultimate goal of Israel's invasion is to end Hamas and then leave rather than a quasi -occupation under an Israeli propped puppet Palestinian regime.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2024
  22. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Of course it does not. Please do not project on to me your biases and agenda. The vast majority of Israelis do NOT want anything to do with Gaza or the West Bank. All they want is to assure there are no terrorists attacking them from either area.

    You clearly have never spoken to an Israeli.
     
  23. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    You "call it...." so will I.

    1. I call you out as never having been to Gaza or the West bank or witnessing a terrorist attack or ever speaking to an Israeli, Palestinian, terrorist, IDF soldier.


    2.I call you out as using a term "exterminate" to deliberately demonize all Israelis for wanting to live terror free and get their hostages back let alone the IDF for defending them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2024
  24. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Go ahead. You have no clue where I have been or who I have talked to. You have not shown that either works to impact or validate any argument or statement I make. I debate with smarter posters than this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2024
  25. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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    We live in a modern age where people can talk to others and not need to speculate.
    This is common hate taught to Zionists from an early age. Arabs do not want to participate in the hate-filled bigoted ethic cleaning the Zionists support.
    Umm, no. And that's the pot calling the kettle black.
    [​IMG]
    Relevance? None.
    Arafat always used the term Palestinian as did everyone else to refer to those who were forced out of Palestine due to hateful Zionist ethnic cleansing or those still living under Zionist occupation.
    The definition was established with UN resolution 194 in 1948. Palestinians have not needed to revise the definition. Of course, this is more Zionist hate taught to children at a very young age.
    The "extended" Palestinian definition was made by hateful Zionists. Once again taught to Zionists from a very young age.
    All of these are true of Christians under Zionist rule. This is called projection. Zionist are taught from an early age to accuse the enemies they hate of what they are doing.
    Most of this number didn't get translated from Hebrew very well, but I will point out one thing.

    Gaza was created by Israel when they found out they needed a place to put all of the Palestinians and Egypt refused to let them in back in 1948. Since Israel didn't want to have to care for the Palestinians they displaced, they let Egypt administer the tiny area.

    The idea that Jews lost tons of stuff during Naqba is hate which is taught to Zionist from an early age.
    Israel is welcome to honor UN resolution 194 whenever they want.

    However, Zionists are taught at an early age to murder any Palestinian regardless of whether it is a child, woman, or baby who tries to cross the border back into Palestine from Syria, Lebanon or Jordon.

    This is just the standard hate Zionists have been taught from an early age.
    More hate taught to Zionists from an early age. To a Zionist, the only moral thing a Palestinian can do is die.
    Yes, the Zionists in Israel will kill anyone with a differing view if they have a chance. Zionists are taught to do this from birth.
    You've made your IOF credentials very clear.
    I just pointed out a dozen different ways Zionists are taught to hate from an early age. The brainwashing is so effective, they think everyone else in the entire world is brainwashed.
    Zionists are taught that to live with people who are less that human, apartheid is the only option. More hate taught to Zionists from an early age.
    Yet Zionists still destroy and steal Beduin land. As has been said before, Zionists don't believe in God but they do believe God gave them Israel.
    The Jews can stay. The Zionists need to go.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2024

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