Should We Get Serious About Language Learning?

Discussion in 'Education' started by unkotare, Mar 16, 2022.

  1. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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  2. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    There are many decades of research in linguistics that refutes your outdated attitude.
     
  3. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    That attitude has long been discredited. Decades ago, immigrant parents who were non-native English speakers were often told by schools not to use their own first language at home around their young children because is would "confuse" the children and hinder their acquisition of English. We now know that is not how the language acquisition process works. In fact the opposite is true.
     
  4. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    ATHANASOPOULOS, PANOS, et al. “Learning to Think in a Second Language: Effects of Proficiency and Length of Exposure in English Learners of German.” The Modern Language Journal, vol. 99, [National Federation of Modern Language Teachers Associations, Wiley], 2015, pp. 138–53, http://www.jstor.org/stable/43650103.
     
  5. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Yan, Ruth Lingxin. “Parental Perceptions on Maintaining Heritage Languages of CLD Students.” Bilingual Review / La Revista Bilingüe, vol. 27, no. 2, Bilingual Press / Editorial Bilingüe, 2003, pp. 99–113, http://www.jstor.org/stable/25745785.
     
  6. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    ZHANG, DONGBO. “Word Reading in L1 and L2 Learners of Chinese: Similarities and Differences in the Functioning of Component Processes.” The Modern Language Journal, vol. 101, no. 2, [National Federation of Modern Language Teachers Associations, Wiley], 2017, pp. 391–411, http://www.jstor.org/stable/44980984.
     
  7. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Hamrick, Phillip, et al. “Child First Language and Adult Second Language Are Both Tied to General-Purpose Learning Systems.” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, vol. 115, no. 7, National Academy of Sciences, 2018, pp. 1487–92, https://www.jstor.org/stable/26507334.
     
  8. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Paquot, Magali. “L1 Frequency in Foreign Language Acquisition: Recurrent Word Combinations in French and Spanish EFL Learner Writing.” Second Language Research, vol. 33, no. 1, Sage Publications, Ltd., 2017, pp. 13–32, https://www.jstor.org/stable/26375870.
     
  9. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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  10. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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  11. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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  12. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it does.
     
  13. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Again, making the claim, sans your citing & linking any of this "many decades of research on linguistics," is meaningless. You want to see why? All right, then here is my response, which has just as much value, as your unsupported claim:

    "Nuh- uh."


    This research, to which, I would imagine, both you & @btthegreat allude, is in all probability just a comparison between those who did take an additional language, versus those who did not. Of course, in that situation, spending more time studying language, is going to yield some benefit. But I was not comparing the choice between foreign language or free period (no learning). Unless any of this research compared a group of single- language speakers, who has spent as many class hours studying English, as the bilingual group spent in both English & foreign language study, combined, it is a false conclusion, to think that the gains in English could only come through study of a foreign language. With that additional time going to studying English word derivations (etymologies), for instance, and doing more reading of English literature, the gains would almost certainly exceed those seen in students who studied, instead, a foreign language. (Reminder, the only refutation of my opinion, would be with data that compares an equal amount of language study, in both groups).

    I see that you have now offered many links, though I almost posted this without seeing them, as you made each one, its own post, and did not send me an alert (@DEFinning ) for any of them. Nor did you give any brief synopsis of the studies. For example, I noticed at least one that was about foreign students, learning English, and having parents told not to use their foreign language at home. This is in no way comparable to what I had said: that for English- speakers, more gain would come from more class time devoted to English, than for an equal amount of time, instead being devoted to a foreign language.

    The results of that study (to which I'd just referred), should have been realized by these linguists, ahead of time. That is, if you tell new immigrants, not to speak their native language at home, since they can't replace it with an equivalent amount of English, there will obviously
    not be as much language use, in the home, which common sense dictates would, of course, have a negative impact. Again, this has nothing to do with my contention; it is, however, a perfect example of why it should be a bare minimum requirement of the one posting this, to preview what is at the other end of the link.



    P.S.-- It speaks very poorly of your credentials, as a linguist, that you cannot correctly understand what argument I have clearly laid out (or that you would cite studies that do not address the same thing as what you-- seemingly mistakenly-- refer to as my "outdated attitude"). It is a no-brainer that between more language study, vs. less study, the former is going to show more benefit. What I was advocating has nothing to do with the amount of study, but with the
    subject matter of that, limited, school time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2022
  14. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    How much research, experience, and evidence do you need to be beaten over the head with before you start to consider the idea that your ill-informed notions about the subject are WRONG?
     
  15. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Can you supply ANY, with an explanation? As I said, I checked one, & it had NOTHING TO DO WITH MY POINT so, at present, it is not even clear that you understand my view. Therefore, I am not going to read through a bunch of links, w/out some indication that they apply to my argument. If you can't provide that, it's on you.




    P.S.-- Once again, you failed to send me a notice. If I do not answer you, then, that will be on you, as well. Is it that difficult for you to follow the simple procedure that the rest of us follow?



     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2022
  16. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Read the information I generously provided before you waste my time any further with your ignorance.
     
  17. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Your answer, once more, demonstrates an inability to comprehend basic English; either that, or your refusal to cooperate, by following standard protocol. It seems a waste of MY time, to explain this to you, yet again. You have provided Zero Explained links. The one that I, nevertheless checked, was inapplicable to my argument, indicating that you were only "generous," in providing garbage. If you haven't bothered, yourself, to read it, it is unreasonable, and hypocritical, of you to expect me to search through it, to see if you got lucky, with the links that, so far, appear to have been drawn at random.

    Show that you can follow my argument, by telling me what, specifically, a link refutes, and how. If that is too difficult for you, it's not an endorsement of your ability, to evaluate such things.
     
  18. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    You realize that you could devote the rest of your life to the task and you would never comprehend the English language (among others) to the extent that I do, right? Try another insult.
     
  19. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    I provide you with the opportunity to begin learning about a complex field of study, and you can't be bothered to even try. That being the case, we are back to: you're wrong.
     
  20. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    You realize that you could spend the rest of your life making that boast, & it would prove nothing, right?
     
    FreshAir likes this.
  21. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    We've been over this before. If it makes you feel insecure, stop saying things like "Your answer, once more, demonstrates an inability to comprehend basic English..."
     
  22. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    So this is the level of argument, from the person who "comprehends the English language," to such a greater extent than all the rest of us? There is certainly an absence of evidence for that claim, as well. But, to this argument about the relative value of studying a foreign language, compared to spending an equal amount of time in additional study of one's first language, I will answer at your own level of debate:

    Nuh- uh. You're wrong.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2022
  23. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    That's not how it works. Stop guessing.
     
  24. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    I'm not talking to "all the rest of us," I'm talking to YOU.
     
  25. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    I treat other's comments with the respect they show to my own. If you do not care for that comment. from me, then you should refrain, yourself, from replies such as:

    unkotare said: ↑
    Read the information I generously provided before you waste my time any further with your ignorance
    .


    Your indignant act, is wholely unwarranted.
     

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