Similarities to new study and the biblical creation myth

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Fallen, Nov 26, 2022.

  1. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes Received:
    466
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Does this make you think of anything. Where nothing exists, exists darkness.

    And God said, “Let there be light,”

    Out of nothing, the universe forms. Giving light to darkness. With the birth of light it is seperate from the darkness which surrounds it. Stars and planets are formed.

    And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water. So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. God called the vault “sky.

    The heat from the stars caused the frozen planet to melt, creating life giving water. As well as releasing other gasses (like nitrogen) that was frozen within the ice sheets into the atmosphere. Creating the sky

    And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.”

    This is self explanatory. Water melted unevenly and gathered into the crevasses that the melting water formed. This continued until enough water melted to reveal the land beneath.

    The rest you guys can figure out.

    So doesn't the Christian creation myth roughly correspond to what scientists think happened?

    What if We Become a Type 7 Civilization?


    Perhaps God is a being from a type 7 civilization and had a hand in this. Maybe that's why the place he exists in is called the "7th heaven".
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
    DennisTate likes this.
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,484
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Evidence clearly shows that space is NOT nothingness.

    In fact, your author turns around and talks about particles in space - which is counter to space being nothingness.

    I think arguments that attempt to find common ground between science and religion have to stick to the idea that god created the initial singularity, with what we see being the fully natural result - stars, platypuses, humans, whatever.
     
    Bowerbird and FreshAir like this.
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,180
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nothing to do with a God

    (+1) + (-1) = 0

    but you separate enough of those, and you get a lot of something that adds up to nothing
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,180
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    they now say we could create a new Universe in the lab, would that make the guy in the lab coat a God?

    and any God myths that universe's Intelligent life later made up, you think any would get it right?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
  5. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    52,303
    Likes Received:
    48,702
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There is no such thing as nothing.
    Even the very concept of nothing, must be something.

    If there was truly nothing there would be no one to even think about it or conceive of what it could be.
     
  6. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes Received:
    466
    Trophy Points:
    83
    If he can do everything that God can.

    Make the universe. Create the heaven and earth. Create human life.

    Advanced enough civilization would be omnipotent as they could capture your brains electrical signals and read them. I'm sure through quantum effect, you can capture such signals of all brains. Then sending a clone imparted with his own concourses to redeem another civilization

    Whats the exact difference be?
     
  7. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes Received:
    466
    Trophy Points:
    83

    Previously, it was thought that the highest particle energies of all would be needed to produce these effects: the kind only obtainable at high-energy particle physics experiments or in extreme astrophysical environments. But in early 2022, strong enough electric fields were created in a simple laboratory setup leveraging the unique properties of graphene, enabling the spontaneous creation of particle-antiparticle pairs from nothing at all. The prediction that this should be possible is 70 years old: dating back to one of the founders of quantum field theory, Julian Schwinger. The Schwinger effect is now verified, and teaches us how the Universe truly makes something from nothing.

    https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/something-from-nothing/

    I think through quantum principles, where particles can come in and out of existence, will even work in say, a pocket dimensions that is completely isolated from outside effects, and where nothing truly exists
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,180
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    he created a universe, anything that universe become is his creation, so would you call that guy in the lab coat a God?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
  9. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes Received:
    466
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Yeh. So if it's theoretically possible for humans to reach that level, perhaps God is a being from a type 7 civilization that created this universe.
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,484
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    One problem here is that there isn't a "nothing" to be found or created. There will always at least be energy.

    The observation of particles coming into existence and then departing existence as particles in a vacuum does not require some sort of force or energy to be added.

    Fun fact: the cosmos creates energies that are hugely more powerful than what we can create on Earth. We struggle to create higher energies, such as in particle colliders. That's the best tool we have in exploring the small. We smash particles we know about and then detect the debris.

    But, the magnitude of the energy we use today in our particle colliders is a fraction of what nature produces. The most energetic particles in the universe, UHECRs pack in ten million times more energy than the particles accelerated inside the Large Hadron Collider.
     
  11. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes Received:
    466
    Trophy Points:
    83
    But there must be stuff to create this energy.

    It can't simply exist by itself. Energy does not come from nothing. Something must be converted into energy
     
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,484
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In my view: If you aren't working on some sci fi script, why are you putting together perfectly good words is such a ridiculous order?
     
  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,484
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sure. There are bodies in our cosmos that produce powerful radiation

    The Sun is also a source of radiation.

    Most cosmic radiation doesn't happen to be targeting Earth, and we do have our magnetosphere to protect us both from solar and cosmic radiation.

    If humans wander outside our magnetosphere, or even just to the International Space Station, they are taking on health risk due to radiation.
     
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,484
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Let me try again.

    The source of the "dark energy" (energy that is maintaining a constant energy density in our universe) is not known. That's why it is called "dark energy" - dark sort of implying unknown origin.

    Physicists say it does not come from matter that is radiating, because the total volume of matter can be viewed as energy (Einstein), and it is not seen to be increasing like that.
     
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,180
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    could be, bible would be wrong, it would be science, not magic, but it's possible
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
  16. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes Received:
    466
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Lol
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
  17. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes Received:
    466
    Trophy Points:
    83
    You're missing my point. I'm curious about the viability of this phenomenon in an empty universe
     
  18. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2020
    Messages:
    15,971
    Likes Received:
    7,607
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Your lack of objectivity, or dearth of knowledge, is showing. That very basic fact, that "something" may come out of "nothingness," could be used to support, in a general way-- as you use it-- many different creation myths: there is nothing particularly Judeo- Christian, about it. In one of the ancient Egyptian creation myths, for example, the god of Magic, Thoth, created the universe through a mere utterance-- how is it any different, if the magic words are "Let there be light?" I would add, that this Egyptian myth quite likely predates the Hebraic one.

    Egyptians have a different creation myth, as well, which I prefer, because of its more visceral imagery. I would imagine that this is also the older, more "primitive," myth. It is about the God Atum-- funny how similar that is to "Adam"-- emerging from the Primordial Sea. Whereupon he masturbates, and the universe is spawned, from His ejaculate (I mean, just take a look at galactic patterns-- not unlike the splatterings of some Deity's spunk).

    I do think that wisdom is bound within these stories, but they hold the sort of intuitive insights, as those with which our subconscious minds, sometimes inseminates our dreams. IOW, the myths cannot be read literally.


    It has always been a conundrum, for science, to explain from where the first matter came. I think the most reasonable assumption is that it
    did appear out of non physicality. But that does not mean that it emerged from nothingness, any more than do our dreams come from some empty abyss, to present themselves to conscious parts of our minds; just because we cannot usually perceive our subconscious mind, does not mean it doesn't exist. Likewise, this Primordial Sea, or utter Darkness, is the true substrate, from whence I think it would be most accurate to say, was/is manifested, material Creation. The thing that is truly infinite, which has no beginning, and which has always been, is something without physical form, though it is as real as consciousness, and Will. That is not to say that I claim to know this-- for no one could. I merely am saying that reason suggests that much, which science is just starting to find, is not mere fantasy.

    I could not say if the underpinning of what we know as the universe, is the product of one Consciousness, or many (or one fractured essence), or if it is something even more abstract: Concepts themselves, which are, in a practical sense, alive. Then again, it is possible that the Titanic energies, swimming in that eternal pool of Passion, may be less cerebral, in nature, and more elemental. Personally, I would lean towards believing that both attributes are present, and that what now exists was purposefully created. Again, the why will always be a mystery. But one idea I've come up with, to stick with my earlier example, comes from the way our own minds and memories operate.

    Mere data, on its own, is not assimilated nearly as well, as when it is
    associated with visual imagery, and the more fantastical the image, the more memorable it will be. This is as good of a rationale, as any, for all of life's obscenity and grotesqueness: it is possible that physicality exists, simply as an educational, and mnemonic aid. Or, if it is more of a spontaneous creation, then the world's bizarre horrors would not be due to navigational errors, but would be a function of the innate creativity of the universe's submerged source, with life being, in truth, like the song says: "but a dream." BTW, the same benefit comes from associating information, with music.

    But I doubt any one cause could be a full explanation (and I've come up with speculations). I'd imagine that part of the reason, is merely a natural desire, of any "entity," to push against any boundaries, and to explore the potentials, of its Existence.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
    WillReadmore likes this.
  19. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes Received:
    466
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Well the whole "let there be light" and "splitting water from water" to create the sky did it for me.
    Out of all creation myths, I think this is the one that closest resembles reality
     
  20. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2020
    Messages:
    15,971
    Likes Received:
    7,607
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    As the Bible was written by men, and we humans have always appreciated the value of the sun (and have always been fascinated, by the sky's other luminous bodies), I see nothing noteworthy, about Yahweh/Elohim being attributed with creating the sun & stars. There is nothing unique about that, among creation myths. Actually, many of the ideas used in the Hebrew and Christian texts, were lifted from older sources.

    Yet, since the purpose of the texts is to inspire faith, and writings about Creation, must be interpreted as being symbolic, it only makes sense that you would favor that, with which you were most familiar, and comfortable. For myself, I am more interested in finding useful bits from varied sources, and in seeing areas of concordance, between them.
     
    FreshAir likes this.
  21. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,180
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    this reminds me how some people thought the "God Particle" proved God existed ;)
     
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,180
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    except back then the writers made a mistake and thought the moon was a source of light, which makes sense due to their level of knowledge at the time
     
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,484
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Light came more than 13 billion years ago, long before there were planets - or stars.

    Splitting water from water clearly had to refer to something that happened on Earth, as did anything said about sky, as our sky does not come close to extending to other objects in space. Then there are the parts about the creation of life forms - which again simply do not match what we witness.

    Thus the stories of Genesis 1 need to be taken as allegory, as no literal translation is even remotely like what we witness. And, one of the difficulties is that allegories depend on culture of those who created the allegories - a culture that is long, long gone.
     
  24. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes Received:
    466
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I don't look at it from as a reference from earth. But God. So when he said these worlds, I look at it as a light that was created with the universe. Then it moved on to earth and what happened there.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2022
  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,484
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But, there isn't an "empty universe" in the sense that you are proposing.

    I think you are predicating your ideas on there be something that actually is nothing.
     

Share This Page