Simple question... Who is it more sensible to believe?

Discussion in '9/11' started by SamSkwamch, Jun 11, 2016.

You are viewing posts in the Conspiracy Theory forum. PF does not allow misinformation. However, please note that posts could occasionally contain content in violation of our policies prior to our staff intervening.

  1. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    294
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Thought I'd add the contents of an article which I just found on Press TV. It's a counter to CIA Chief John Brennan's allegation that Saudi Arabia had no ties to 9/11, and ups the ante by also stating that Israel played a role...

    **CIA Director John Brennan and other American officials are trying to hide Israeli and Saudi tracks in the September 11, 2001, terror attacks, says a former US official.

    J. Michael Springmann, a former US diplomat in Saudi Arabia, made the remarks on Sunday over Brennan’s claims that Saudi Arabia will be absolved of any responsibility for the 9/11 attacks based on 28 classified pages of a congressional report into the incident.

    Springmann told Press TV that the spymaster was “absolutely mistaken,” as many key US politicians along with American intelligence agencies have acknowledged Saudi Arabia’s role in the attacks.

    The Saudis were indeed involved “either through money or through assistance or through participation by high-level government or well-connected rich individuals,” he added.

    Controversy surrounding Saudi Arabia’s role in the 9/11 attacks surged in May, when the US Senate passed a bill that allowed the families of 9/11 victims to sue the Riyadh regime for the damage caused by the tragic event.

    The New York Post claimed in a report last month that Saudi Arabia’s involvement was deliberately covered up at the highest levels of the American government.

    The extent of the cover-up goes beyond hiding 28 pages of a congressional report on 9/11 which was released in 2002, the report noted.

    Pointing to investigations by case agents interviewed at the Joint Terrorism Task Forces (JTTF) in Washington and San Diego, along with police detectives who investigated the incident, the Post said, “Virtually every road led back to the Saudi Embassy in Washington, as well as the Saudi Consulate in Los Angeles.”

    Springmann said according to the CIA, Congress could end the debates by simply releasing the hidden portion of the report.

    “So they can declassify, they don’t have to wait for the executive branch, John Brennan or [US President] Barry Obama,” the analyst noted, adding that so far Obama has made promises in that regard but is not likely to deliver.

    The Office of the US Director of National Intelligence is currently reviewing the pages to decide whether they can be declassified.

    “What they are afraid of,” Springmann argued, “is essentially Saudis’ attempts to sell-off US securities and its blackmail as it did with the United Nations and its blacklist of Saudi Arabia for terrorism in Yemen.”

    Riyadh has threatened that it might sell up to $750 billion in US securities and other assets if it is connected to the deadly attacks that killed some 3,000 people.

    The United Nations blacklisted Saudi Arabia after concluding in a report released last week that it was responsible for 60 percent of the 785 deaths of children in Yemen last year, but quickly scratched it from the list after facing threats by the kingdom to stop funding UN programs.

    Springmann noted that although Saudi tracks in the attacks were visible, Israel’s role in the attack should not be ignored as well.
    **

    Source: US officials hiding Saudi, Israeli roles in 9/11: former US official | Press TV
     
  2. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    23,112
    Likes Received:
    11,951
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My bet is that Israeli involvement is far greater than Saudi involvement, but does it really matter? Justice will never be served in this matter.
     
  3. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,567
    Trophy Points:
    113
    and you base this theory on what? ...
     
  4. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    294
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I'd bet on that as well...

    I don't know- never is a very long time :p...
     
  5. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    294
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I can't speak for Eleuthera, but for myself, I found that the following article, citing multiple mainstream sources, was quite compelling...

    The Five Dancing Israelis Arrested On 9-11 | WhatReallyHappened.com
     
  6. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    23,112
    Likes Received:
    11,951
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Years of study and observation.
     
  7. rammstein

    rammstein Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Messages:
    887
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    18

    Nothing has worked more to the Israeli/Saudi advantage than all this wrangling about
    demolition. That the buildings collapsed was just unexpected gravy for the operators
    that did this strike.

    There is closeup footage showing that the integrity of the tower failed right where the jet
    hit. How could it be possible that the demo explosions could start right at that point ?
    It's just a crazy idea from the get go and does nothing but obfuscate where the focus of
    investigation should be.

    .
     
  8. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,595
    Likes Received:
    2,352
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah amazing luck that was. 3 buildings go down just like a perfectly planned and executed CD with 2 airplanes. Must have been Allah's work.

    You mean that massive explosion that separated the smaller top portion from the lower portion? That "integrity failure"?

    [video=youtube;ZjSd9wB55zk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjSd9wB55zk&feature=youtu.be[/video]

    Given that it looked like a perfectly planned and executed CD, it stands to reason they also planned that and executed it quite perfectly I would imagine. Or it was Allah's work.

    Yeah chalk it up to good luck or Allah. Let's not look that way, we need to look the other way. Because every time I look that way, there's a problem, quite a huge one.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/458597-nist-9-11-scam-exposed-all-its-glory.html
     
  9. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    23,112
    Likes Received:
    11,951
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I strongly agree that patriotism is not militarism, but these days the average American is supposed to believe the opposite. As Bush 43 put it, if you're not with us, you're against us.

    When the towers came down, much debris was blown laterally. At least one very large piece of structural steel was blown laterally with sufficient force to impale on the building then known as the American Express building.

    That cannot happen with just gravity and fires.
     
  10. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,567
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the math for this very vague claim please? ...
     
  11. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,595
    Likes Received:
    2,352
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The science you're looking for is called physics, not math, and there's nothing "vague" about the fact that gravity is a downward force or the fact that fire does not have the capability to hurl large pieces of structural steel laterally.
     
  12. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    3,538
    Likes Received:
    1,567
    Trophy Points:
    113
    was I talking to you? ...
     
  13. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,595
    Likes Received:
    2,352
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, I just thought I would point out your incorrect characterization of the claim ("very vague") and illogical question with the facts. Whether your were "talking" to me or not is irrelevant, the issue is not a personal one and this is a discussion forum, anyone can participate.
     
  14. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    23,112
    Likes Received:
    11,951
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Are you suggesting that the Amex building was NOT penetrated by large structural pieces? Or are you claiming it was not several hundred feet away?
     
  15. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Interesting. So both of you would be able to show us video of other "controlled demolitions" where explosives hurled heavy structural components laterally, hundreds of feet away into other buildings right?

    How much force would need to be generated to propel one of the perimeter facade sections LATERALLY, hundreds of feet away, to IMPALE a building?
     
  16. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    48
  17. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,595
    Likes Received:
    2,352
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Whether I or anyone else can "show" the above is irrelevant, explosives do have that capability. Perhaps you don't believe it's possible? Do you know of any building, any in the history of building fires, other than on 9/11 where the above happened? Do you believe fire can hurl multi-ton objects with enough force to impale such an object into another building?

    Quite a bit I would imagine, nothing that I ever heard fire being capable of producing.
     
  18. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    48
    They do? Then you can show me your proof that leads you to believe it's possible. Show me where "controlled demolition" explosives have hurled multi-ton sections of steel LATERALLLY, hundreds of feet away.

    Answer my question first. Do you have proof that "controlled demolition" charges have the energy to HURL multi-ton steel sections LATERALLY, hundreds of feet?

    How about this explanation Bob. How about the descending upper section/debris pushed outward on the facade steel and sent it into a parabolic trajectory. Or do you not believe this is possible?

    See above explanation.

    You're big on physics. Tell us how much force would be needed to hurl a multi-ton steel assembly hundreds of feet LATERALLY. We'll see how "possible" that scenario is.
     
  19. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Bob, where are the MASSIVE STEEL SECTIONS in this video being ejected LATERALLY from the supposed MASSIVE explosion which you think separated the top from the bottom? I see nothing.
     
  20. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Funny how when asked for YOU to provide historical evidence of a claim you make it quickly becomes irrelevant.

    They do? Support your claim then. Show us video of controlled demolitions hurling massive structural pieces hundreds of feet away. How about some math showing us how this would be possible.

    Or are you just guessing?
     
  21. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,595
    Likes Received:
    2,352
    Trophy Points:
    113
  22. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Where Bob? The upper section is already descending and I see no "massive explosion" that you claim was present. There is virtually no change in the smoke. No "squibs". No ejected steel anywhere. Why not? The supposed charges have already gone off to separate the upper and lower sections, yet nothing exists in that video to show what you describe.

    Because there is no indication of a "massive explosion" that separated the upper and lower sections. I see no "massive" changes in the surrounding environment that indicates a massive explosion going off at that time.
     
  23. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,595
    Likes Received:
    2,352
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No explosives don't have that capability, they do nothing. What kind of question is that? But I suppose fire can do that.

    If I have to show you "proof" that explosives have that capability, you have a bigger problem than 9/11. I'm not in the business of proving anything to you or anyone else. What you believe is your problem, not mine, I don't care.

    I already told you it's not relevant. Show me one where fire did that if you want to play that game. Unless you're saying you don't believe it happened at all despite the photos.

    It's a nice and typical explanation for an OCT defender. Thanks, it doesn't fit what happened. It's about the same level of possibility as the fire/damage induced global collapse of 3 buildings that worked just as well as a perfectly planned and executed controlled demolition all on the same day.

    Been there done that, a lot of force. How "possible" is the fire/damage scenario you wish were (or hope to convince me is) true?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I know.
     
  24. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    48
    [​IMG]

    The top picture is a screen capture just before the upper section drops. The lower picture is from the same video AFTER the upper section started dropping.

    Where is the massive explosion Bob? Hardly any changes due to a massive explosion that you claim separated the upper and lower sections.
     
  25. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,595
    Likes Received:
    2,352
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I know, you already explained that you see nothing. I'm ok with that. Unlike you, I see quite a bit that you claim you don't. Do you see this?:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/458597-nist-9-11-scam-exposed-all-its-glory.html

    Oh wait, you don't see that either because you disappeared from the last thread you were posting in a month ago after Tony Szamboti starting posting. Well anyway the reason I brought up the above thread is because it seems your beliefs are completely aligned with NIST.
     

Share This Page