Still another variant; possibly more infectious than Delta

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by CenterField, Oct 21, 2021.

PF does not allow misinformation. However, please note that posts could occasionally contain content in violation of our policies prior to our staff intervening. We urge you to seek reliable alternate sources to verify information you read in this forum.

  1. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,489
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Translation: No critical thinking allowed.
     
  2. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,489
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You have that backwards. Natural immunity will respond to all proteins. The gene therapy targets only one.
     
    gfm7175 and ToughTalk like this.
  3. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    5,754
    Likes Received:
    3,164
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The main problem is with hospital ressources. There are only so many ICU beds and trained personnel available at any time in a community. While Covid isn't the black plague, most severe case end up in ICU which, as I said, are limited in number of bed. This impact the treatment of others like cancer patient or cardiac patient, accidents victims since if they need any chirurgy, they need those ICU beds.

    In short, the shutdown wasn't about controlling peoples life, it was about managing those limited ICU ressources. The vaccines, while not perfect also prevent people from sever cases and ICU visit.
     
    CenterField likes this.
  4. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,489
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Which for the majority of hospitals was never a problem.
     
  5. EMH

    EMH Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2021
    Messages:
    661
    Likes Received:
    245
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male


    Last year, the fall flu was diagnosed at 3% of normal, because 97% were lied to and told they had Covid.

    This year, the spring and fall flus are being called CV "variants" and it is all BS...

    It is just the normal fall flu....
     
  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    155,375
    Likes Received:
    66,189
    Trophy Points:
    113
    you seem confused, the spikes are the least likely to change

    natural immunity, you do not know what part of the virus the immune system will target
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
  7. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,882
    Likes Received:
    8,404
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    All coronaviruses have spike proteins, but the spike proteins do mutate. This is one of the reasons why there is ongoing research on making vaccines that target other viral proteins that don't mutate as much, and antivirals that target enzymes needed for viral replication that are the same for all variants.
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    155,375
    Likes Received:
    66,189
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the spike protein can mutate, just less likely, that is why the current vaccine is effective against all the variants to date
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
  9. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,882
    Likes Received:
    8,404
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Less likely? There's been more than 300,000 mutations. The hope that this coronavirus would mutate slower than the influenza virus are kind of dashed by now. Yes, the vaccines are still effective against all variants, but less so for the Delta, although boosters did restore previous efficacy.
     
  10. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    155,375
    Likes Received:
    66,189
    Trophy Points:
    113
    yet, the vaccine still works on all of the spikes of the varrients

    we need a new vaccine for the flu that targets the spikes (that kinda proves my point)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
  11. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,489
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Duh, what do you think mutation is. Targeting only one spike allows the other proteins to mutate and take hold.
     
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    155,375
    Likes Received:
    66,189
    Trophy Points:
    113
    they target the spike as it's the least likely to change, it's working

    the spike is the keys into the cell, if it changes too much, the key may not work, that is the point, if it does change, it may not matter anyways, as it would not be able to enter the cell and reproduce
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
  13. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,489
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Another duh. Of course the targeted spike will be least likely to change. There are four proteins and that leaves three untargeted proteins to mutate. Eventually the virus will mutate to be resistant.
     
  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    155,375
    Likes Received:
    66,189
    Trophy Points:
    113
    or mutate into a virus with spikes that do not work as keys to get into the cells

    that is the best thing to target of a virus, natural immunity may target other parts more likely to change

    this is proving to be true based on what we are seeing
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
  15. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,489
    Trophy Points:
    113
    True as in natural immunity being more protective than the shots as Israel shows.
     
  16. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    10,833
    Likes Received:
    4,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Simply solution: We should have drafted a bill for getting more ICU beds and increasing the number of CNAs. Also increase the numbers of students in nursing and medical school for a long term solution.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
  17. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    10,833
    Likes Received:
    4,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So you think making scientific claims without any real evidence from peer reviewed research is critical thinking? You don't have any expertise in the medical field and yet you consider yourself such an authority that you can dictate when experts in this field are incorrect, without the need to cite any actual sources.
     
  18. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    40,135
    Likes Received:
    15,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, to be accurate the natural evolution of the virus has brought another variant as it will continue to do. It has nothing to do with the vaccines.
     
  19. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,489
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yet here you are, doing what you claim. Sorry if I am widely read.
     
  20. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    10,833
    Likes Received:
    4,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do you have any research showing organ damage in a significant number of people? One reason people panicked was because the US media was overly negative about the virus. 87% of American national covid coverage was negative, compared to 53% of US regional coverage, 51% of international media, and 64% of scientific journals.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/24/...tional-media-is-an-outlier-a-study-finds.html
     
  21. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    40,135
    Likes Received:
    15,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is the way all the other corona viruses work so you could view it as a default reality until somebody proves something else.
    Immunity doesn't cause mutation. Mutation is a a natural phenomenon at the base of evolution. The virus mutates constantly. Most mutations provide no benefit to the infection and disappear but some do. Those that do tend to overtake less effective strains of the virus. So we get more of them. Delta replaced alpha because it was more virulent. It provided improved spread. It is how all viruses work and how evolution itself works. You can look up natural selection to get a better understanding than I have provided here.
     
  22. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    10,833
    Likes Received:
    4,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I just wonder how you think you are smarter than virologists yet you refuse to site any real scientific sources? It seems like all your claims are based on intuitive sounding arguments, but aren't based on any actual hard research or data.
     
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,489
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So reading the actual science means what to you? Maybe you only read the propaganda.
     
  24. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    5,754
    Likes Received:
    3,164
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It takes years to train ICU personels and not all medical students wants or are able to work in ICU conditions. Drafting laws don't makes the ressources appear out of thin air. You also have to equip said ICU and if you didn't know there was a shortage of equipment also.

    As for students, I guess seing the nurses and doctors working double or triple shifts for the past year will discourage many from entering the field. Here, even with cash incentive and loan forgiveness the government can't find enough nurses and doctors to keep all hospitals at 100% effectives.
     
  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    155,375
    Likes Received:
    66,189
    Trophy Points:
    113
    immunity kills off the viruses that it targets and leaves the others if one has mutated to where the natural immunity is not effective

    the covid vaccine target the spikes, thus not as much risk of variants

    the flu vaccine works like natural immunity, thus more risk of variants
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021

Share This Page