Tax policy is on the ballot in Nov.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Lee Atwater, Apr 17, 2024.

  1. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One of the accomplishments of Biden's admin was passage of the 15% corporate minimum tax. It prevented widely profitable companies like Amazon from paying zero taxes due to loopholes in the tax code corporations and wealthy individuals lobbied for. Those additional tax dollars helped pay for the most aggressive climate change prevention legislation in the history of the world. Part of the goal of the bill is to increase renewable energy sources like wind energy. His Orangeness has other ideas.

    Trump’s Mar-a-Lago fundraising pitch to oil executives: I will kill wind

    Former president Donald Trump repeatedly ranted about wind power during a fundraising dinner with oil and gas industry executives last week, falsely claiming that the renewable-energy source is unreliable, unattractive and bad for the environment.

    “I hate wind,” Trump told the executives over a meal of chopped steak at his Mar-a-Lago Club and resort in Florida, according to a person with knowledge of the meeting, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe a private conversation.

    Trump’s comments reveal how he is wooing potential donors with his long-standing hostility to wind farms and pledges to halt this form of renewable energy if he returns to office.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/04/17/trump-wind-power-oil-executives/

    Don has some ideas about tax policy too. Like extending the tax cut for billionaires set to expire in 2025.

    Trump tells wealthy donors he wants to extend his 2017 tax cuts. Here’s why they’d benefit the most
    https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/10/politics/trump-2017-tax-cuts-rich/index.html

    Also like cutting corporate taxes. And of course promising (one could say lying about), as he did the last time when his tax cutting legislation was passed, that he would reduce the deficit.

    So for Individual 1, MAGA means increasing the deficit while accelerating climate change. Taking the country in the wrong direction. The election is going to be enormously consequential in many ways. One of those ways will be how the expiration of the 2017 tax cuts will be dealt with. It's one reason why Biden's re-election is essential.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2024
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  2. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Billionaires know Trump will give them more and more tax cuts. And he might even try to do some of the things he promises oil companies. But there is no way they are not convinced that the guy is a complete MORON! Will they really bet their money on this guy? If a sane politician promised them tax cuts and opposing clean energy, they would do that without hesitation. But this is not a sane person.
     
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  3. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He's right about wind. I guess birds' lives don't matter to the left huh? They WRECK wildlife. Why not just stick with solar farms? they are way less impactful on the environment. Oh I know why, the left doesn't give a crap about the environment, ONLY POWER
     
  4. Shutcie

    Shutcie Newly Registered Donor

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    Same old same old.
    We cannot tax our way out of debt.
    We cannot tax our way out of debt.
    We cannot tax our way out of debt.
    We cannot tax our way out of debt.

    The discussion about who should pay taxes, who does pay taxes, and how to arrive at the end goal must always start with two things;
    1) The propaganda and cheap sound bite slogans need to be put aside.
    2) Facts need to be used objectively and honestly.

    It is hard to find actual facts about who pays and how much, but this is a good place to start;
    Government 10-K | USAFacts

    USA Facts is a site started by Microsoft's Steve Ballmer to dig through the mountains of stuff the government has collected and put it in meaningful form. Steve claims the site is non political.
    In any case, public companies do what's called a 10-K report annually. It is a highly detailed report of the condition of the company, financial data, facts and figures of all manner.

    Governments don't do 10-K reports.
    So Ballmer did one for the government.
    Lots of fun information in there.

    Now then.
    Before we talk about who should pay tax, who does pay tax, and how unfair that all is, we should start with a discussion about how big of a government we want.
    And how to pay for it, cause there ain't no free lunch.
    If I were in charge I would;
    1) Start with a 20% across the board cut of every budget for every department. The ONLY exception would be Social Security, Medicare and unemployment benefits. The administration budgets for those programs would be cut.
    2) Social Security, Medicare, and unemployment would be moved out of the normal Federal Budget. These programs are funded by separate, dedicated payroll taxes designed to make them self sufficient. Having them in the regular budget distorts the debt, revenue, and cash flow. Set them outside the normal budgetary process.
    3) Any new expenditure would have to include the funding source; general revenue is NOT an option; that money has already been spent. If someone needs a new bridge, explain how it will be paid for.
    4) Congress would be required to submit a balanced budget bill on time. Failure is not an option, until the bill is submitted and passed, congress could not adjourn. Congressional payroll would be suspended until the bill was passed.
    5) All new funding sources would first be applied to the debt.
    6) Until the debt is below, say, $10 TRILLION no increases in Federal payroll, including congressional payroll, would be permitted.

    Yes, I know, most of this I couldn't do even if I was in charge, in particular the congressional payroll thingy. But say, we're deep in debt, neither Congress or any administration seems to give a darn, and drastic steps are called for. Demanding that Congress and the administration do it's job or they don't get paid doesn't seem to be an outrageous step, but then we live in unusual times.
     
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  5. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're right! You could probably never do this. You sound way too practical and logical to be a swamp creature.
     
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  6. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't know if they matter to the left. I DO know they don't matter to Trump. And I doubt they matter to you either.

    What does matter to you is finding some way to bail out Trump out every time he makes an idiotic statement. That is very curious. Trump caring about "birds' lives" is just too ridiculous.

    Get over it! Trump DOES make idiotic statements. I can help you get over any mental blocks: BIDEN makes idiotic statement from time to time. So does Obama. ALL human beings make idiotic statements from time to time. Only deities don't. So unless you need to convince yourself that Trump is some sort of deity, there is no NEED to defend every word he says.
     
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  7. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    So, you think raising taxes is a winner at the ballot box?
     
  8. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    We can certainly "tax-exempt" us INTO debt. Especially when we exempt people who don't put back into the economy the benefits of those tax cuts. I'm ALL for tax cuts to the middle class. Because every dollar they save goes back into the economy and produces wealth. The latest tax exemption for billionaires have proven that this does not necessarily happen with the Trump tax-cuts.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2024
  9. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    An absurd supposition, the only corporations that are paying that 15% aren't Amazon and the fortune 500 it's mom and pops pass throughs and LLCs the small business that leftist declared war on almost from the time there were leftists. Note trump isn't going to kill solar and wind hell big oil is big energy and most of the wind farms and solar infrastructure is being built by what ever is left of what was once known as the seven sisters. What trump will do id try to put an end to the insipid notion that you can meet all of Americas energy needs with wind and solar without destroying that standard of living of everyone not a politician.
     
  10. Shutcie

    Shutcie Newly Registered Donor

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    If we continue with the same policies and practices FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE the debt will continue to grow at a faster and faster pace. Eventually, the system will collapse and the continued existence of America will be in serious jeopardy.

    Think about this; what is the ultimate result or consequence of this much debt? Of letting it continue to grow at this rate?

    We need to shrink the debt.
    Significantly shrink the debt.
    Now. Right away.

    The question is, how?
    How do we shrink the debt?

    With taxes?
    Sure.
    Do you truly believe we (meaning Congress and the administration) has the self discipline to raise taxes and use the increased revenue to pay down the debt?
    Or will Congress find someplace else to spend the money? Maybe on more green initiatives? How about child care? How about for a new bridge in Boston? How about for student loans? Laundry services for ILLEGAL MIGRANTS?

    The only way to shrink the debt is by starting with shrinking the budget. In serious ways.
    Just now Federal spending is running at $6.7 TRILLION annually.
    Federal revenue is running at $4.8 TRILLION.
    U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time (usdebtclock.org)

    So just to balance the budget we either need to increase tax revenue by 150% or we need to cut spending by almost 1/3.
    Think about that. 150% of current taxes increasing across the board? Who has that kind of money laying around? Not even the richest 10% (who already pay over half of the taxes in America) have that kind of money. Nor do corporations.
    We, collectively, do not have that kind of money.
    We do not have it.

    Even cutting the budget by 20% (which would give every Federal bureaucrat, politician and lobbyist a case of severe diarrhea) won't solve the problem, just slow it down. But at least across the board cuts of 20% will keep the bureaucrats from whining about their sacred ox, won't it? Everyone takes the same cut. Then we can talk. You need more money? Okey Doke. Where you going to get it from? If you can sell it to the American public, we can do that. Just as soon as the debt is paid down.

    But we must first get spending under control before we start looking at increasing taxes. Increasing taxes will just give Congress and the administration more money to mess around with.
    It will not reduce the debt.
     
  11. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed. It has to be done by a combination of higher taxes and lower spending.
     
  12. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Before we think about shrinking the debt, we need to make sure we don't increase it. We KNOW that tax cuts to the rich increases the debt.

    After that, we look at the policies Presidents that have actually SHRUNK the debt: Clinton, Obama, ... and we try to do whatever it was they did. To do this you have to forget politics and focus on the policies. That's the hardest part. Many will read this and start babbling "well... DURING the Obama administration, the debt..." Forget that! The POLICIES are the matter on hand.

    But, first and foremost, let's not increase it anymore unnecessarily.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2024

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