The atomic bombs dropped in WW2 were unecessary.

Sure as hell it wasn't MacArthur...

 

Still fighting the Pacific War? News flash.. we won and everything is better now.

 

The word you're looking for is actually "fact". lol.

 

How do you get a different interpretation of a direct quote. Just show me those two names.

I am waiting

 

Opinions are all that we have on this matter, even yours.

 

Of course. Lol

 

I have the opinions of the greatest military experts at the time.

What do you have? Lol

 

Waiting for what? Your the one wanting names, I never offered any beside MacArthur chief of intelligence and the US intel on the amount of japanese troops.
You can fight your strawman all by yourself.

 

It's like eating tomato soup with a fork.

 

What I have is a discussion with somebody who isn't being honest and borderline trolling at this point.

 

Good. Then you can not cite military experts of the time to support your position like I can.

Got it

 

I am still waiting for you to provide evidence for your case. I provided plenty.

Now you are getting frustrated

 

It must be remembered that Mac was an extreme egotist, and believed that his will alone would win wars and battles. And he was rather dismissive of troop casualty estimates. Like Patton, he believed that his will alone would enable his soldiers to emerge victorious. And while his victories are legendary, many of his defeats are not so well advertised.

The thing to me that matters most is the casualty estimates that were made for Operation Downfall. The staff of Admiral Nimitz estimated under 50,000 US casualties. General MacArthur's staff estimated 105,000 US casualties. General Marshall's staff estimated 70,000 US casualties.

Myself, I think all were very wrong. The one I place most faith in is the Shockley Report, which was a revised estimate based on information and statistics gathered from the Battle of Okinawa. That report estimated a total of 1.7-4 million US casualties, and between 400-800,000 deaths. And a total of between 5 and 10 million Japanese deaths.

http://theamericanpresident.us/images/projections.pdf

I hold faith that this is closer to the true numbers that would have been seen. Dr. Shockley (later winner of the Nobel Prize for physics) took into consideration information from the battles of Saipan and Okinawa. Including high death rates of civilians, as well as hospital and intelligence reports from those 2 battles and preparations already being seen on the mainland.

For example, the over 20,000 Okinawan conscripts forced into battle with almost no training or equipment. The same thing would have happened on the mainland to an even larger scale. It would have been a bloody slaughter on both sides.

But Mac is wrong about Japan surrendering without the bomb and Soviet invasion. The very response of Japan to Potsdam is known as "Mokusatsu", which translates to "kill with silent contempt". The term comes from the very speech that Prime Minister Suzuki gave with the Japanese response to Potsdam:

And this was the official position of the Empire, 4 days prior to the bombing of Hiroshima the Imperial Council had voted 6-0 to continue the war unless a favorable armistice could be arranged (not surrender, armistice). Even after the dropping of 2 atomic bombs and the attack by the Soviets, they were still deadlocked at 3-3 to continue the war.

The problem here is the obstinance of Japan. They worried that the surrender would mean the loss of the Emperor, but they never once tried to reach out to clarify what terms would be acceptable until after "the big 3" attacks. The war could have ended sooner, if only they had tried. But they were still blindly hoping for an armistice that would let them keep their empire.

And Mac was dead wrong in another major way. The ending of the war was not up to the United States. It was a joint declaration by the governments of the United States, Great Britain, and China. And all 3 had to agree to the terms of surrender. And all 3 had already agreed that there would be no individual surrender, all parties would have to agree to a peace treaty, or all would continue to fight.

Japan would never have accepted a peace treaty without the return of Okinawa, Saipan, Iwo Jima, and other Japanese territory. Therefore the US would have to continue until surrender was achieved. Even on the day of the first bomb, they had the belief that they would at worst have to return to their 1941 borders.

 

Frustrate? No more amused.
You haven't provided anything that changed the fact on the ground in 1945.

 

Still waiting for those names. Suddenly you know more about the facts on the ground than the military experts, lol

 

keep trying, you're really bad at it.

 

Hmmm, not really.

Emperor Showa was much more a "Spiritual Ruler", his actual direct influence on day to day matters was minute at best. He was not a "Ruler" as most Westerners would ever understand.

And his actual role in his own Imperial Council was miniscule. Akin really to that of the Vice President of the United States in the US Senate.

The actual power to end or continue the war rested with the Supreme Council for the Direction of the War (Saikō sensō shidō kaigi), which was made up of the Prime Minister, Foreign Minister, Minister of War, and the Minister of the Navy along with the Navy and Army Chiefs of Staff. Those 6 men were the ones who actually led the nation and made all the decisions. And like the VP in the Senate, the Emperor was expected to simply sit in the corner as they made all of the decisions in his name.

The Emperor never spoke at the meetings, not once in the 8 years that the war council existed. His only purpose was to cast a tie-breaking vote in the event the 6 members could not reach a decision. And that happened exactly 1 time, on 10 August 1945. That was the only time he addressed the council, and the only time he voted in it.

If they were not tied he never would have said a word. And they were only tied because of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the Soviet invasion.

Prior to these 3 events, the vote was 6-0. After Hiroshima, it was 5-1. Only after Nagasaki and the Soviet invasion did it finally go to 3-3. With the Minister of War, and the Chiefs of the Staff for the Army and Navy voting to continue the war (the Prime Minister, Foreign Minister, and Navy Minister thought the war should be ended as soon as possible).

Only after a 12 hour meeting with the council hopelessly deadlocked did the Prime Minister finally pass the decision to the Emperor. And if Emperor Showa had decided to keep fighting, then the war would have continued.

 

Evidence buddy. Post some

 

And the Emperor also had to deal with an officer revolt after casting that vote.

The film "Japan Longuest Day" starring Toshiro Mifune depict the situation and is a great movie to watch

 

Already did buddy. You just don't like it.

 

Hahahaha

 

Your timing is off, try harder.

 

In total 429 B-29's were lost over Japan. I only wish we had killed and roasted more Japanese.

 

They're dying as a nation anyway if they don't start making babies soon.

 

Evidence evidence evidence