The Bible is a Book of Fairy Tales

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by mbk734, May 6, 2017.

  1. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    LOL, you totally fail. Your argument was disproven, your claim completely debunked, and now you want to pretend it was "Yabber" not you.
     
  2. Llewellyn Moss

    Llewellyn Moss Well-Known Member

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  3. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Assumes factoids not in evidence!
     
  4. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Such an insult to all those who were victims of forced slavery. For someone who claims to not have a horse in this thread, you sure excuse atrocities to "attempt" to defend the bible, which you are doing a very poor job of, while looking like a zealot nut.
     
  5. Tuatara

    Tuatara Well-Known Member

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    Dinosaurs and Rhinos have not always been around.
     
  6. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would think the old slaves would see a commonality between their own slavery and the slavery of neoliberal capitalism. And unlike you, perhaps, feel some empathy?

    The bible no more needs defending than the history of humanity needs defending. We are a brutal, hateful,, selfish species, with a few bright lights scattered about the darkness. And even those bright lights are attacked by the atheistic zealots, who have, when in control, murdered millions and can hardly set a good example for the murderous religious.

    The reason we no longer have the old slavery in the west is because owning the old kind of slavery is more expensive making it impossible to max out your own income, profits, wealth, for you the owner still have to feed, house cloth and care for their bodies to protect your investment and provide the labor which creates the wealth of the owner. So the old slavery was replaced with the new kind, where you no longer have to provide the resources for your slave to continue on, to work for you, but can now not provide the needed resources, a living wage and rely upon other taxpayers to insure your slaves don't die off, and show up for work.

    You also know you are a slave when others own your body, as ours are owned, evidenced by being sent to prison for consuming something which the people that own you, says you cannot consume without going to prison. If one does not own one's body and consciousness this is all of the evidence needed to verify the slavery. The trick is to make the slaves think they are free, and not slaves.
     
  7. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Typical apologetics BS. There is no comparison between modern day employer employee agreements and the forced labor and being property of others. Shame on you for even suggesting it. If you don't like your job or employer, you are free to quit. You are also free to be your own "slave holder". Good grief. Grow up.
     
  8. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    And you are out of your mind. I'm not defending slavery; I only acknowledge it. All slavery is forced. And, I'm not defending the Bible. And while you're busy calling me names, you have not been able to state a case. Allow me an example:

    When I was in college, a professor was making the rounds with historical proof that the Holocaust never took place. His proof was irrefutable. For example, he had taken pictures of corpses that were used in books and had photos increased in size three times. He would then demonstrate how it was a very limited number of bodies by showing the same tattoo numbers repeated several times over.

    He had world census figures and had shown, by simple mathematics that given the size of crematoriums and the time, resources, etc. necessary, it was impossible to have killed 6... no wait, 9, then 12 - and some speakers on the subject would claim TWENTY MILLION Jews!!!

    Well, I believe the numbers were dramatically inflated. But, the Holocaust still happened. Likewise, I'm inclined to give the historical events in the Bible the benefit of the doubt. The writers are human with human biases and some will even embellish. And, no matter how you try to paint me, my human experiences are just different from yours. Aside from the fact that I've not expressed a belief in anything in particular - you jump to many conclusions. I'd like to share with you another story for an analogous purpose:

    Years ago when I first started posting on discussion boards, I complained on a militia board about a series of events that were going on. Infighting, examples of people doing things related to the media and so forth were described. Posters in Tennessee and Texas were both sure my references were to events going on in those states. How about that! The same things were going on in TWO states... But wait, I wasn't talking about either state. I live in Georgia and we were experiencing the same thing. Relevance?

    I went to many different seminars in college. In one, an archaeologist had examples of the earth, mountains, etc. that had gone through a great metamorphosis at about the same time - all across the globe. The timing wasn't right so he questioned those who ascribed times to biblical events, but this man was just as sure about the Great Flood as you are that no such event ever took place. And then...

    Another historian in a seminar (and these were college seminars in a major University) believed in the Great Flood at the time most modern Bible believers say. But, he didn't argue the Flood as a world wide event, but rather as a local event. After all, the Bible was written by men. If one says the Flood covered the "whole earth" then it was the earth as HE knew it. At about the time the Great Flood took place (according to the modern interpretations of the time it took place), the Chinese were plugging along in their own part of the earth and Chinese dynasties never skipped a beat, according to the their history. They lived through the Flood. But, as fate would have it, even their recorded secular history has the Tarim Basin being washed out and they had heard rumors of such a man as Noah.

    So, dude, you can call me names for leaving doors open, but just because I don't have the same experiences as you does not mean you're smarter - nor does it, in any way, suggest you "have me figured out." You REALLY don't. I'm not going to make a big deal out of it because I don't care what you think about me on that level. If you cannot sustain a civil conversation without the level of accusations and name calling that you've engaged in, the people who I'd interact with can't be swayed by your appeals to emotion.

    I think that most people who have a leaning either way will not be convinced of your opinion nor mine. IF there are people out there who are on the fence - or are really like you and just not sure, they may accept what I'm going to say:

    Whether you believe in any of the religions or whether you do not, it is not wise to summarily dismiss them. Myself, I'm dissatisfied with a host of interpretations. The Jews aren't the Israelites of the Bible; the Flood may not have been worldwide; some events of the Bible may have been embellished. There may even be events in secular history that mimic the biblical accounts and not even be the same event. For me, this is all a journey and the atheists might be right OR they may as likely be equally wrong. The Christian Bible to which maat eludes admonishes its believers to test the spirits and do things like rightly divide the word of God... you know, like differentiating between literal and figurative truths. In any human account, you have to allow for the writer's bias, the conception of what they witnessed, and many times the limitations of translations.

    I'm not here to sell you anything. I came along to see if these guys whose religion is disbelief wanted to explore the unknown, but to put it into a concept maat can understand, the Satanic deception was "ye shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil." Other religious books share a similar interpretation. I can exit now because nothing good can follow people calling me names or making baseless accusations. IF the atheists on this thread had a legitimate case, they would have made it. They simply did not. I'm not going to question their motives nor presume to comment on what their real feelings are. If you've read this far into my response, you are intelligent enough to make your own decisions and you aren't even obligated to repeat them on this thread.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  9. Bear513

    Bear513 Banned

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    2,000 years ago people didn't know anything about the earth, biology, physics, chemistry or astronomy.



    Excuse us?

    They knew plenty about the earth , biology, physics , chemistry and astronomy..heck they knew the earth was round almost 2,500 years ago.


    .
     
  10. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    So people were smarter 2,500 years ago that they are now. A lot of people think that the world is flat.
     
  11. Bear513

    Bear513 Banned

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    Well in reality the world is not even round more like an oplate spheroid..
     
  12. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You clearly equated agreed employment to forced slavery, which is pathetic. Expect to be called on it.

    People have different opinions as to how innerant the Bible should be. I vehemently dispute the idea this book is inspired by a god. If people want to believe fairytales, more power to them. But, they had better not attempt to judge me(atheist) as wicked and lost.

    For me to believe the Bible were not fairytales, it would not sanction slavery, genocide, murder, rape etc.. I expect it to reflect a god, which it clearly does not. What it does reflect is the folklore of a certain race that excuses it absurdities as god given.

    And, I have provided plenty of evidence that the Bible is innerant, contradictive and it's god immoral. I have plenty more if necessary.
     
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  13. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    maat you can "call" people all you want. You still came up short. You're also coming up short with that deflection of "more power to them." You can't stand the thought that you cannot force people to believe what you believe. Now, that IS pathetic. Just because you expect a God to do things you want and don't get it your way shows a lack of maturity on your part.

    Slavery, no matter how much it's watered down is still slavery. And every person in America is free to read your tirades or seek their version of the truth elsewhere. And, rest assured, you do not hold a monopoly on the truth or understanding.
     
  14. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Paul writes to Timothy 'Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.' Of course he is talking about the OT.
    Paul and Timothy had only the written scriptures to rely on. To them, that was the Truth. Today we have much more knowledge of OT times and that means a rethink of the 'Truth' found in Scripture.
    For 2 millenia people have relied on what the church had taught them, without thinking for themselves. Anyone who relies on this teaching cannot really ever come to the real 'truth' for what was known and meant in far off times may be different today. This is being reflected in modern Bibles. 'Lucifer' in Isaiah was never meant as Satan - but a Babylonian king. Satan - the enemy of God in the NT - does not appear in the OT where he is called HaSatan - The Satan - and in Judaism is Gods servant, testing the faith of people. This he did with Lot. Also with Jesus. Both passed gods test. Christianity turned him into an enemy of God.
    Christians accept the prophecies in the OT concerning Jesus because the Church has been built on these. But they have no reference to Jesus if studied in context.
    Studying the Bible is all very well but not knowing the background on which it is written leads to all sorts of ideas. Studying the background puts a different light on what has been taught for 2000 years. The Bible contains some proven history - proven by outside sources - but we have been led to believe in many of the exaggerations found. Archaeology proves places mentioned in the Bible, but that is to be expected as they knew, and often lived in existing places. Archaeology also disproves many things recorded. Was Ai conquered by a mythical Joshua? It had lain derelict for a thousand years before the Bible event. Was Jericho destroyed by the same Joshua? It had been destroyed many times in its history by man and probably earthquakes - it's on the edge of an earthquake area.
    We read of walled cities, towns and villages. In truth there were no places we would call a 'city' today. Mainly large towns. Most 'nations' in the early OT lived in walled towns the Bible calls cities. These were city/states which joined together in cases of invasion. Many things in the Bible are exaggerated and give us an impression beyond reality. Someone said Capernaum was a large city. Study would show it was simply a fishing village.
    The NT is exaggerated in places. Anyone who thinks 5000 men (not including women and children) could gather from 'many cities' in a few hours is out of touch with the reality of the day. And, as an aside, can anyone believe a woman would go without provisions for at least herself and children. If you study Pilate's history, Jewish Law and Roman Law the trial and crucifixion of Jesus as recorded, makes little sense.

    My point. Believe what you want, but unless you know the whole facts you will never come to the real truth - only what you want to believe.
     
  15. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again, I could careless what people believe, until it spills over on me. As an atheist(intellectually honest), the fact I believe the bible is Jewish nonsense, brings dismay to those who worship it. I must be evil incarnate, a baby sacrificer or eater. I must worship the devil. And a bunch of other nonsense. When I told my family, you would think I just came out of the homosexual closet. From this side of the fence, despite a few good attributes, I see just how ridiculous religion is. How hipocritical and inept believers are concerning intellectual honesty. If you don't like hearing it, tough.

    Tell me, is it standard practice today for a worker to be forcibly resided to his workplace? Is his children sold off as property to other employers like puppies? Are employees the PROPERTY of employers? You sound like a disgruntled liberal who despises free market capitalism. Apparently, you will never understand real slavery until you are a real slave.
     
  16. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    By the way you've judged me, I am convinced with each passing post that you are not qualified to even be IN a conversation about the Bible. You want others to believe you have this understanding and you think you can judge me.

    Based upon your allegations you didn't get a damn thing about me right.

    Disgruntled liberal? I've never voted for a Democrat in my life. Furthermore, I have been in thousands of threads being attacked by people who thought they were for free market capitalism, but were parroting the talking points of the left.

    Insofar as understanding slavery, I've done more research on that topic than you can imagine.

    Finally, insofar as you believing the Bible to be about Jewish fairy tales, the fact that you cannot delineate or differentiate between Jews and Israelites shows a tremendous amount of ignorance on your part. You are simply not qualified to try and debate people on the Bible. First, let me put you on the straight and narrow for a change:

    The Bible does not claim to be a book about all the races, cultures, creeds, etc. of all of mankind. In Genesis 5 : 1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam." Clearly science confirms the existence of pre-Adamic beings. So, God, creates Adam and from that man he elects his servant race. You obviously did not get that. So, right away, the problem is with YOU, not the Bible. Maybe if someone took the time to sit down and explain the Bible and the bigger picture to you, you might have a different opinion. At least you'd have a clue what that book is about.
     
  17. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've provided evidence the bible is flawed, contradictive and immoral. This only leaves it to be fairytales written by imperfect men. Refute it or whine elsewhere.

    You clearly are insulting all those who have truly been slaves. All evidence from your head to my screen proves this. I'll let the forum decide.

    In a forum, you are what you type. And, you don't decide what my qualifications are. So far, I'm the one providing viable evidence, you are providing nothing but emotions.


    No, the bible specifically states that Adam and Eve came first. It does not state their race. This "God" established his racism through Abraham. I read the bible cover to cover. It reads like a fairytale. It's suspicious how all the interaction with this God ended when the books stop coming.
     
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  18. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But that's what the church has been doing for millenia, and in some cases, is still doing. Atheist's, agnostics like myself, just want people to wake up to reality. Most Christians do not understand the Bible, beyond what they are told by their leaders. At least today there is an awakening by scholars to things like the real interpretation of the Tanakh. The orthodox Christian teaching is being challenged by scholars who are not frightened to reinterpret the Tanakh, using Jewish theology and teaching of the time. One of the favourite books of the OT is Psalms. But Psalms is not entirely the work of the Hebrews. It relies a great deal on the Ugarit religion, shortly before. The Book of Job is simply a theological argument on 'why do the righteous suffer'. An argument found in earlier writing. When was the story of Ruth written? Probably at the time of Ezra/Nehemiah when it combatted the idea of putting away foreign wives. If David came from the line of a Moabitess, why not others? End genealogy was added much later.

    The Church does not want the OT questioned as it relies on the OT for its validity. If they once admitted the truth - that the prophecies used to validate Jesus have nothing to do with Jesus when contextually studied , Christianity would struggle.
     
  19. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    What can I say except that you are legend in your own mind. You've provided no proof and you've only demonstrated a need to feel superior to everyone else. You've made baseless and idiotic allegations about me, hoping to whizz me off and nothing you've tried has worked for you.

    You keep saying you're going to let the other posters decide, but you can't ever let this be the last exchange. For you not to end this thread making some jacka** claim about me would harm you emotionally. You think you have to insult me personally and / or make a stupid comment that is not answered so you can "win." There are a few others equally narcissistic as you, but you are derailing this thread over your claims of superiority and your inability to let it go.

    Son, I have as much time on the clock as you do. So, if making idiotic claims and baseless allegations is what it takes to feed your ego, have at it. The problem is, what you say don't make it true. When you have to insult people and then accuse them of doing what YOU'RE guilty of, it sends an unequivocal message that you have a deeply rooted emotional problem. After all, how intelligent do you think you are when you cannot state a factual case for what you claim not to believe in and then have to fabricate lies and make false accusations against me when my only crime / sin against your infallibility was to ask you a few freaking questions?

    You talk about insecure... dude, I feel so sorry for you, I'm asking all the Christians on this thread to pray for you.
     
  20. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What have I not proven? Contradictions? Immoral God? That you have a problem knowing the difference between an employee and a slave? Here again, you come back with emotional lashings with no evidence. Try again.
     
  21. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    I think that everyone has made some valid points and is working hard to contribute to understanding the topic. It's the total accumulation of knowledge over time that will enable everyone to be truly comfortable with his own conclusions. Each person fills in a piece to the puzzle, which becomes more visible with each day.

    May we continue to have lively discussions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  22. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you should sit down and read Genesis 1 & 2 again. Particularly 2 v 5-8. It seems Adam was the first man. In actual fact, it is all a story adapted from earlier religions. There are countless stories from the beginning of history as to the creation. Egyptian cities even had their own slightly different versions. The history of the human race has recently been put back a hundred thousand years by new discoveries.

    And the Bible is not about the generations of a fictional Adam. If you remember, all mankind, save a fictional Noah and his family, were destroyed in a nonsensical flood story. Indeed, if you study the Bible carefully there are passages of scripture which prove the flood, as recorded in the Bible, could not have happened. It's called the Hydrological water cycle - which is mentioned in simple terms in several places in the Bible.

    The first part of the Tanakh - up to the time of the minor king David - whose story is a brilliant piece of mainly fictional writing - is simply dreamt up by some clever scribes in, and following, the 7th century BCE.

    The Bible itself is an incomplete history of the Jews. It contains no books from the period of the Babylonian Exile to the birth of Jesus. There's a gap of several hundred years in which events unfolded that had an effect on the interpretation of the NT.. But then people don't want to know that.

    .
     
  23. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    Your opinion does not constitute fact. It is silly for you to argue otherwise.

    All you do is an appeal to emotion.

    It would seem to me that you are the one taking the spanking here. You come with some half baked B.S. that you cannot sustain in a civil conversation and then proceed to try and draw me into some kind to whizzing contest. Your little rants sound like an angry little man stomping his feet and shaking his fists at those who cannot see your superior intellect.

    LMAO. ROTF. LMAO:icon_picknose::icon_picknose:

    Dude, nobody ever said that all slavery is equal. Jews in concentration camps were slaves, forced to manufacture things for the German army. Surely you would not equate their "slavery" to the easy street (by comparison) of blacks when they were being held as slaves.

    When people work for minimum wages and the ONLY way they can get into companies is via slavers that take part of their wages (at least for a time) is still slavery. Son, you are not only insecure and narcissistic, you don't seem to be very knowledgable either. Keep coming back with your silly commentary. You can get schooled right here.

    Shall I also start making stupid comments about you and claiming them to be facts, evidence, and the truth? So, you're not an atheist. You are a confused Christian that wants someone to prove God's existence to you and, barring that, you want others to be humiliated the way you feel some people humiliated you. :hiding:
     
  24. TheResister

    TheResister Banned

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    Your inability to understand the Bible only convinces me that you don't know squat. Let me work with this absurd silliness that Adam was the first man (according to the Bible.)

    Adam and Eve were the first two human beings (according to your interpretation.) Then along comes Cain and Abel. Cain kills Abel, but then God banishes Cain to a place where men will seek to kill him and in that same chapter of the Bible, Cain went to live in the land of Nod.

    You know why you guys struggle with the Bible? You start out with a false presupposition and when the facts don't fit your narrative, you blame the world for your own shortcomings.
     
  25. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You really should quit while your way behind. Blacks had it on easy street? What frickin world do you live in?
     
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