The coup investigation is about to enter a new phase.

So, is Trump impeached over this? Nope. Was he involved in inspiring this act? Absolutely.

So, just for a minute, how about getting off your fixation on murder?

Please remember that what I've pointed to DOES NOT depend on Pence or anyone else being murdered or kidnapped.

My last sentence is based on the FACT that Trump successfully convinced a large number of Republicans that the whole election was a fraud.

Given the end of the certification process, the president would have HUGE latitude in what would come next.

And, there is NO reason to believe that of all Trump's choices on what would come next, he would choose to inaugurate Biden!!

 

Please, for the love of an imaginary god, explain to me why you think the people outside the conspiracy theorists would just sit back and let him run amok if he decided to nullify the original election and/or results?

 

Trump creating a "temporary" presidency of a Democratic woman and stepping down to that?

Outstanding humor!

 

I'm not even suggesting that he would "run amok".

Had the process been overturned, there could be raised all sorts of questions concerning what the next steps should be.

There isn't any law about that.

He's clearly broken the law in his attempts to invalidate electors that had been chosen by the states - claiming that states had improperly determined state outcomes, and working to have state officials claim outcomes that did not match the vote counts.

Would it be "run amok" for him to decide that the outcome of the Arizona audit must be completed, and/or that other legal cases needed to be decided before the next attempt at certification?

Republicans were definitely in favor of that. In fact, that was one of the motivating factors for the Jan 6 insurgency - an insurgency that has been considered acceptable by that party.

Let's remember that Trump had major political support, and the full support of his own party.

 

Let's start with the subset of our society that responded to his tweet to come to the Capitol on January 6, 2021.

Hundreds have been arrested. The cases are being heard now. Some have been convicted and some are awaiting conviction. I'm going to assume we agree on that fact.

1. Of <whatever # of arrestees>, how many people do you think have changed their loyalty to Trump?
2. Of <whatever # of rioters present, but not arrested>, how many people do you think have changed their loyalty to Trump?
3. Of <whatever # of people that watched it on tv>, how many people do you think have changed their loyalty to Trump?
4. Of <whatever # of Independents, leaning toward Trump>, how many people do you think have changed their loyalty to Trump?
5. Of <whatever # of Undecideds>, how many people do you think have changed their loyalty to Trump?

And, within <whatever # you think all of them represent>, how many do you think have influenced at least 3-4 other people that Trump is not working in our country's best interest, but he is also not harmless?

The numbers actually don't matter because we can probably agree that whatever that number is - it HAS to be less than 100%.

6. Of <whatever number of eligible voters that did NOT vote in the 2020 election>, how many do you think feel compelled to vote against him if he runs again based on his deplorable behavior and bullying since the day after Election Day?

7. Of <whatever number of eligible voters that DID vote from him in the 2020 election>, how many do you think feel compelled to vote against him if he runs again based on him firing and/or badmouthing them in public?

I'm going to assume we agree that number for those HAS to be more than 1.


In 2016, Trump complained about election fraud. He didn't pursue that because it was in his favor. He also didn't do anything as POTUS to address whatever concerns he had about our election process. In fact, he hasn't done anything since losing the election 2020, to do anything about whatever concerns he had about our election process. There can only be one logical explanation for that. Well, he's stupid and lazy (but I'm counting those as "given"). The only logical explanation for why he has NOT done *anything* about what he defines as "widespread election fraud" is because it doesn't exist.

Obama's "real" birth certificate didn't exist.
He didn't put Hillary in jail, as promised.
He didn't put forth his "super, duper, tremendous" health plan to replace ObamaCare.
He didn't take responsibility for COVID (which is why he was actually fired).
He didn't protect our troops or Afghani allies while he was negotiating with terrorists.

8. Of <whatever number of eligible voters that did vote for him in the 2020 election>, how many do you think feel compelled to vote against him if he runs again based on what he set up to go down in Afghanistan under Biden's watch. (Yes, Biden called the play but it was Trump's playbook).


If we ignore ALL of the above, let's say NONE it happened...
Republicans can't win a POTUS election with fair play.
They never have been able to win an election with fair play.
They know they can't win an election with fair play.

This is why they are constantly trying to subvert election rules and play these mind games about whatever they tell themselves to try to rationalize their willingness to not play by the rules. I'm sure you've heard that people point fingers and accuse other people of things because they are doing those things. Same thing here. He doesn't mind cheating. Cheating is his wheelhouse. He is just mad it didn't help him in 2020.

Now, that people are paying attention to the lengths he will take his lies and efforts to burn our country down, more voters are going to turn out for any election he enters in an effort to let him near the Oval Office again.

It doesn't matter how many other spinless snakes support that position. The only reason they do now is they don't want to get Cheney-ed.

 

I really don't have a clue concerning what you think that all means.

Was ANY of that supposed to address what I said?

Republicans STILL support Trump. It's 2022 and the culpability of Trump, Giuliani, Meadows, Johnson, Greene, Bannon, etc., etc. is still ongoing, with appeals headed to the SC just to determine what the investigation can HEAR!!!

The fact is, Republicans STILL back Trump in a MAJOR way, and have worked to present Jan 6 as just a simple political protest!

So, any claim that there would have been instant retribution against Trump (of all people) if the certification were terminated is just plain BS. There is absolutely NOTHING to suggest that.

 

I understand your point. What I don't understand is why you think there would be no pushback against it. There's pushback against it NOW.

Nothing will happen to Trump. The best gift he can give the country is dying. He has 70+ years experience at avoiding prison. That's not going to change.

However, the rest of them aren't untouchable. Giuliani's law license is suspended and he will probably be disbarred. Powell is facing the same fate. Maxwell was just convicted last week. Republicans (ie. sexual abuse and human trafficking survivors) that question her connection to Trump, given what she's going to prison for, won't support him again. And, Trump doesn't appreciate loyalty so they are all any number of seconds away from getting his often unjustifiable and unreasonable wrath.

I just don't understand why you think it's so tight-knit among them. There is no honor among thieves.

 

Even YOU point out that there will be no repercussions for Trump.

What's happening today is called "running out the clock".

And, the Republican party, membership and leadership, is totally behind that.

You keep claiming there would be some sort of repercussions. But, I just think that is NUTS.

If the certification of the election were halted, there are numerous avenues Trump could take, and the Republican part would be ECSTATIC about that.

At least you aren't still claiming that the military would take action against Trump!

 

We disagree. Republicans are outnumbered and the military would step in, if needed to secure our country during civil unrest.

We can disagree. It's okay. I promise the sun will rise tomorrow.

 

Ah now we understand disagreeing with democrats about the validity of the 2020 election is proof of participation in an Insurrection. All in all this is not only unconstitutional on the part if those pushing that meme it reeks if hysteria and idiocy.

 

Trump hasn't done any illegal things. Pissing off Democrats isn't illegal though apparently party leadership wants desperately to change that

 

LOL - you need to stop and think for a moment.

... and, maybe actually read my post before responding.

 

That is TOTALLY irrelevant to this discussion.

YOU were talking about the military in terms of them arresting the president - LOL!!

If there are issues of civil unrest, there are laws in place concerning what the various branches of police and military may be asked to do.

But, you're just switching topics.

We came very close to having our election stopped, leaving Trump to make the decisions on what would come next.

And that is not even SLIGHTLY surprising. Such would be an emergency situation, where the next president was not confirmed through the required constitutional procedure for doing so.

And, there are no laws or procedures on what the next steps would be.

Trump would be inventing his role - as would any other president in that situation be required to do. In fact, as congress would be required to do as well.

 

The issue here is that we came VERY close to losing this central piece of our representative democracy.

The DEFINITION of terrorism is:

"the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

We had terrorists attack our government, in fact our very democracy in the pursuit of political aims.

And, we have Republicans LOUDLY DEFENDING that terrorism.

 

But I did and drew a perfectly logical conclusion based on what you said.

 

If that's true it will only be because he can convince a jury his call to Raffensberger was due to the completely delusional belief it was made because he actually believed the lies being told about the GA election by his staff.

 

Jan. 6 Panel Faces Difficult Questions as Anniversary of Capitol Riot Approaches

WASHINGTON — The anniversary of the Jan. 6 riot arrives this week with the congressional committee investigating the attack confronting a series of difficult questions, including how forcefully to flex its subpoena power and whether the Supreme Court will stymie a major element of its inquiry.

As the nine-member panel continues to examine the events leading up to the worst attack on Congress in centuries, it is waiting to see whether the Supreme Court will refuse a request from former President Donald J. Trump to block the committee’s access to White House records related to the riot. The committee also has not ruled out moving to subpoena members of Congress, or Mr. Trump and former Vice President Mike Pence.

Thursday will mark a year since a mob of Trump supporters stormed the building, determined to disrupt the formal certification of President Biden’s electoral victory.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/02/us/politics/jan-6-capitol-riot-anniversary.html

Obviously, this committee can not complete its work until Trump testifies. Obviously, he will refuse. Therefore, he must be subpoenaed.

 

I don't believe mental health professionals would have any problem diagnosing him as delusional.

Outside that, he a slippery snake. He might get called on the carpet and he will do what he always does when questioned under oath. Fold his arms, stare in space and claim he doesn't recall.

He won't do prison time. If he was going to prison, there were 43,879,854 times before now he probably should have been bricked in ala Bathory.

 

No jury would it plausible he doesn't recall calling Raffensberger. A more plausible defense is to say his advisers were telling him the election was stolen and he believed them. Making him delusional, convincing himself to accept demonstrable lies because he wanted to believe them.

 

I understand that but I'm missing something here. Are you saying there is an actual legal point about that and he could possibly do prison time if it is tried in a court of law?

 

I was simply explaining how congress' certification of a president works. Trump has nothing to do with it and Pence has no substantive involvement.

 

Should Fulton County prosecutors decide to advance a case against Donald Trump, a key factor they must prove is that the former president knew his conduct was unlawful as he sought to overturn the 2020 election results in Georgia.

But nearly a year after the leak of Trump’s phone call to Brad Raffensperger, in which he urged the secretary of state to “find” him the 11,780 votes to overcome President Joe Biden’s win here, legal observers are divided over how easy that task could be.

Some view that Jan. 2 conversation, as well as reports of other calls Trump placed to top Georgia officials in the preceding weeks, as indisputable evidence that the former president had the requisite criminal intent to be in violation of state laws barring election meddling. They wonder why it’s taking District Attorney Fani Willis so long to move forward with charging Trump 11 months after she launched a criminal investigation.
https://www.ajc.com/politics/trumps...das-investigation/N4R5G776PVBY3GRK6Z422AOHKI/

 

In the hours after a mob of angry Donald Trump supporters stormed Capitol Hill on Jan. 6, a number of prominent Trump administration officials and Republicans decided that they’d had enough.

With a mix of anger and outrage, they condemned Trump for either stoking the riots or doing next-to-nothing to stop them. Cabinet officials submitted letters of resignation. Golf buddies and top donors broke their alliances. Top advisers said they’d been let down by Trump.

It was a notable moment of public dissent after four years marked mostly by fidelity. But its impact has proved minimal.

One year after the Jan. 6 riot, the voices of those who broke with Trump over that day have mostly been muted, moved on, or, in certain instances, come to embrace Trump all over again. POLITICO contacted eighteen Trump administration officials who stepped down as a result of Jan. 6 or whose resignation seemed timed to it. Only one agreed to speak on the record about their decision that day.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/03/trumpworld-jan-6-526291

 

Re: #172 & 173

@Lee Atwater, those articles support my position. Nothing will happen to Trump. He said it aloud. He bragged that he could shoot somebody and not lose any supporters. I don't understand why they don't find that insulting, but there are a gazillion other things I don't understand about humans. I can't possibly live long enough to figure it all out.

 

In Portland Seattle Minneapolis and dozens of other American cities.