The Era of rivalry, Biden vs. Trump and their respective parties

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Sandy Shanks, Jul 31, 2022.

  1. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    CNN reports, "President Joe Biden is scheduled to sign into law two major pieces of legislation on boosting US semiconductor production and expanding health care benefits for veterans exposed to toxic burn pits next week at the White House.

    "The passage of the two bills were big wins for the President, who has been isolating at the White House for the second time since testing positive on Saturday for a rebound case of Covid-19.

    "The two bill signings are currently scheduled to take place in person Monday and Tuesday in the White House Rose Garden. The President is scheduled to deliver remarks at both events.

    "The CHIPS and Science Act will subsidize US-made semiconductor chips, which are used to make cars, household appliances and computers. There has been a shortage of semiconductor chips in the wake of the Covid-19 pandemic and global supply chain disruptions.

    "The bill will help the US compete with China and make the nation less reliant on foreign manufacturing, as well as lower the cost of goods at a time when inflation is reaching record highs.

    "Twenty-four House Republicans crossed over to join Democrats in backing the bill. It previously passed the Senate with broad bipartisan support. (Did they grow weary of being the party of NO?)

    "The Honoring our PACT Act widely expands health care resources and benefits to veterans exposed to burn pits during their military service. It adds conditions related to burn pit and toxic exposure, including hypertension, to the Department of Veterans Affairs list of illnesses that have been incurred or exacerbated during military service."
     
  2. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Sandy Shanks said:
    The Republican Party may win control of Congress by avoiding any mention of their positions on these important issues.

    Instead, they will talk about Biden, inflation, Harris, inflation, Hunter, inflation, the Biden recession, and, lastly, inflation.

    The difference is, Biden didn't cause the problems. It is equally obvious that, under the circumstances, if Republicans were in charge, they would be clamoring about how great the American economy is. (see post above)

    The Republican Party is solely responsible for their positions which they choose to ignore.

    As expected, as proof of my contention, Republicans kept their silence on the issues contained in that report.

    See post 22.
     
  3. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Have Republicans lost their minds? What has Trump done to the Republican Party?

    NPR reports, "When Hungary's prime minister, Viktor Orbán, arrived in the U.S. this week, he bypassed the White House and President Biden to pay a visit to a more admiring U.S. president. He caught up with former President Donald Trump at his golf course in Bedminster, N.J.

    "That was on the way to the Conservative Political Action Conference's annual gathering in Dallas, where Orbán gave the kickoff address on Thursday afternoon.

    "Don't worry, a Christian politician cannot be racist, so we should never hesitate to heavily challenge our opponents on these issues," Orbán told his Texan audience. "Be sure: Christian values protect us from going too far."

    "To many in the right wing of the Republican party, Orbán offers a model for electoral success. His endurance — he won his fourth straight term as prime minister in April — relies on an unrepentant appeal to a white and Christian heritage for Hungary. It has also depended on rounds of crackdowns on civil liberties and dissenting voices inside the country."

    To many in the right wing of the Republican party, Orbán offers a model for electoral success.

    I was once a member of the Republican Party due to my adherence to conservative core beliefs. All that ended with Trump and the GOP's abandonment of conservative principles.

    It is readily apparent that true American conservatives would not embrace a Hungarian dictator and allow him to be a guest speaker at a Conservative Political Action Conference.

    The Republican Party believes that the state should control a woman's health in the case of a pregnancy. It is readily apparent that the Religious Right has superseded conservative principles within the Republican Party. True conservatives believe in less government control, not more, and a woman's body -- and a man's -- is sacrosanct, meaning the absence of government interference.

    True American conservatives would come down hard on any President who gave approval to upend a Presidential election without offering proof the election was fraudulent. The Republican Party embraces Trump's baseless claim. He is the leader of the party, and most Republican candidates state without proof that the election was stolen from Trump.

    So, I left the Republican Party during the summer of 2020 because of the GOP's complete abandonment of conservative principles.

    I don't expect forum Republicans to respond to this message.

    After all, what can they say? The truth shall set you free!
     
  4. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Yes Biden is responsible for increasing US and world energy prices. You can't essentially shut down new US drilling and pipelines and not impact world oil prices. Add to that the Russian sanction regime that's hurting the West more than it is Russia.

    And sorry calling Cheney a life long Neocon a conservative is nonsense. Sorry there is more to being a conservative than killing brown people and doubling the military budget year over year. Oh and argue that killing brown people is a Democrat thing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
  6. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    It is conceivable that the Democrats are gaining ground on Republicans, who are favored to win in the November mid-terms.

    President Biden is scheduled to sign into law two major pieces of legislation on boosting US semiconductor production and expanding health care benefits for veterans exposed to toxic burn pits next week at the White House.

    President Biden authorized a U.S. drone strike in Afghanistan that took out al-Qaida leader Ayman al-Zawahri.

    “This terrorist leader is no more,” Biden said in an evening speech from the White House.

    Sen. Joe Manchin (D., W.Va.) and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) said they had agreed to a deal to support a legislative package that would spend hundreds of billions of dollars and affect a swath of climate, healthcare, prescription-drug and tax policies, providing the Senator from Arizona doesn't mess it up.

    Then there is Kansas.

    CNN reports, "It isn’t often that Democrats look to deep-red Kansas for resounding affirmation. But on Tuesday night, when Kansans overwhelmingly voted to keep protections for abortion rights in their state constitution, that is exactly what happened.

    "The size and scope of the result were a shock to even the most optimistic Democrats. Not only did voters reject a proposed constitutional amendment that would have opened the door to strict abortion laws in the Republican state, but they did it by turning out in huge numbers, dwarfing turnout in more recent primary elections and signaling that the issue can motivate even Republican-leaning voters in a state former President Donald Trump won by 15 points in 2020.

    "The political impact of what happened in Kansas will be most directly felt in the November midterm elections – particularly in races for governor and attorney general after the US Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, throwing the issue of abortion to the states.

    "The June ruling has led to bans on the procedure being enforced in several states while opening the door to more restrictions in others."

    Did the Republican Party miscalculate? Even Republicans do not want the state to interfere in a notable personal matter -- a person's health and circumstances.

    That is none of the state's business, particularly when the state is asserting that its religious views supersede that of its citizens.

    But that is exactly what Republican governors and legislatures are doing, and that could cost them.

    Ruby red Kansas proved it.
     
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  7. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Dude the only thing Kansas proved is that on a one issue vote people will turn out based on that issue. They kept murdering babies legal in Kansas. But if people are still shelling out $3.50 $4 a gallon for gas and and food is still up 20% depending on item. No one is voting Democrat.
     
  8. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    She didn't mess it up.

    USA Today reports, "Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, D-Ariz., said Thursday that she would "move forward" on a sweeping package of initiatives to combat climate change, lower drug prices and pare back the deficit, giving Senate Democrats the votes they need to pass the Inflation Reduction Act.

    "Sinema, the last Democratic holdout on the bill, said she negotiated the removal of a provision to increase taxes on carried interests targeting wealthy investors, resolving a key difference that had held back her support."

    "Subject to the parliamentarian's review, I'll move forward," Sinema said in a statement.

    "Her backing sets up a final version of the bill to be introduced Saturday and the likelihood of another major legislative win for President Joe Biden."

    ABC reports, "The U.S. hiring saw a dramatic increase in July, as the economy added 528,000 jobs and the unemployment rate fell to a historic 3.5%, according to data released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics on Friday.

    "The 528,000 jobs added in July marks a significant uptick from 372,000 jobs added in June. Moreover, the figures signals an improvement from the already-robust hiring sustained over the first half of 2022, during which the economy added an average of 461,000 jobs each month.

    "The overall robust hiring in recent months defies typical conditions for a recession, Daniel Zhao, a senior economist at the career site Glassdoor, told ABC News prior to the data release."

    In addition, President Biden authorized a U.S. drone strike in Afghanistan that took out al-Qaida leader Ayman al-Zawahri. “This terrorist leader is no more,” Biden said

    In a note of pure irony, despite his accomplishments, Biden's approval rating sits at 38%.

    At this stage in his Presidency, that is actually lower than Trump at a similar time.

    It is self-evident that Democrats are having a major role in that abysmal approval rating.

    Put a different way, because of the relationship between a President's approval rating and mid-term elections, Democrats are essentially assuring that Democrats will lose control of Congress in November.

    Go figure!
     
  9. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    I don't know. Turnout was unsually high and the results were not consistent at all with polling, which indicates that the undecided broke against empowering the legislature to restrict abortion and that the additional turn out was driven by this issue.

    Look at what has happened to the RCP since the Dobbs decision was released.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/2022-generic-congressional-vote-7361.html

    We led by 3.4 before Dobbs, now that's down to 0.1. That's the closest we've been since 11-11-21.

    The House map still looks solid.

    [​IMG]

    We need 2 of the 25 toss ups to take the majority.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  10. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Things are looking good for the Democratic Party. That is if Democrats quit tripping all over themselves and start acting like a unified party. Quit blaming the Democratic President for inflation would be a start. Biden is fighting inflation, not causing it.

    President Biden is scheduled to sign into law two major pieces of legislation on boosting US semiconductor production and expanding health care benefits for veterans exposed to toxic burn pits next week at the White House.

    Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, D-Ariz., said Thursday that she would "move forward" on a sweeping package of initiatives to combat climate change, lower drug prices and pare back the deficit, giving Senate Democrats the votes they need to pass the Inflation Reduction Act. Her backing sets up a final version of the bill to be introduced Saturday and the likelihood of another major legislative win for President Joe Biden.

    President Biden authorized a U.S. drone strike in Afghanistan that took out al-Qaida leader Ayman al-Zawahri.

    In conservative Kansas, there was a startling victory for Democrats and women's rights, and a stunning loss by Republicans who miscalculated the abortion issue big time.

    Republicans are in reverse.

    The Republican Party believes that the state should control a woman's health in the case of a pregnancy. It is readily apparent that the Religious Right has superseded conservative principles within the Republican Party.

    Republicans embraced the Hungarian dictator, Viktor Orbán, and allowed him to be a guest speaker at the Conservative Political Action Conference.

    Donald Trump, who led an effort to overthrow the elected government, will give the keynote address at CPAC on Saturday.

    A responsible Republican Party would come down hard on any President who gave approval to upend a Presidential election without offering proof the election was fraudulent. The Republican Party embraces Trump's baseless claim. He is the leader of the party, and most Republican candidates state without proof that the election was stolen from Trump.

    In the face of shooting massacres every week, the NRA-sponsored Republican Party opposes meaningful gun control. They argue Democrats want to abolish the Second Amendment. They are lying. There is no movement in the Democratic Party -- or anywhere else -- to abolish the Second.

    The Democrats just may have a chance in November providing they don't blow it.
     
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  11. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    I love it when Trump Republicans prove my point.

    Have Republicans lost their minds? What has Trump done to the Republican Party?

    NPR reports, "When Hungary's prime minister, Viktor Orbán, arrived in the U.S. this week, he bypassed the White House and President Biden to pay a visit to a more admiring U.S. president. He caught up with former President Donald Trump at his golf course in Bedminster, N.J.

    "That was on the way to the Conservative Political Action Conference's annual gathering in Dallas, where Orbán gave the kickoff address on Thursday afternoon.

    "Don't worry, a Christian politician cannot be racist, so we should never hesitate to heavily challenge our opponents on these issues," Orbán told his Texan audience. "Be sure: Christian values protect us from going too far."

    "To many in the right wing of the Republican party, Orbán offers a model for electoral success. His endurance — he won his fourth straight term as prime minister in April — relies on an unrepentant appeal to a white and Christian heritage for Hungary. It has also depended on rounds of crackdowns on civil liberties and dissenting voices inside the country."

    To many in the right wing of the Republican party, Orbán offers a model for electoral success.

    I was once a member of the Republican Party due to my adherence to conservative core beliefs. All that ended with Trump and the GOP's abandonment of conservative principles.

    It is readily apparent that true American conservatives would not embrace a Hungarian dictator and allow him to be a guest speaker at a Conservative Political Action Conference.

    The Republican Party believes that the state should control a woman's health in the case of a pregnancy. It is readily apparent that the Religious Right has superseded conservative principles within the Republican Party. True conservatives believe in less government control, not more, and a woman's body -- and a man's -- is sacrosanct, meaning the absence of government interference.

    True American conservatives would come down hard on any President who gave approval to upend a Presidential election without offering proof the election was fraudulent. The Republican Party embraces Trump's baseless claim. He is the leader of the party, and most Republican candidates state without proof that the election was stolen from Trump.

    So, I left the Republican Party during the summer of 2020 because of the GOP's complete abandonment of conservative principles.

    I don't expect forum Republicans to respond to this message.

    After all, what can they say? The truth shall set you free!
     
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  12. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Now all the left and the sad as establishment needs us some inkling of what the truth is.
     
  13. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Fake News. I love it when the Trump obsessed prove that they are terribly uninformed. "Hungary is a unitary, parliamentary republic." It's not a Dictatorship, nor is Mr. Orban the "Dictator", in fact, he isn't even the President.

    [​IMG]
    President Novak.​

    More fake news. Per the CONSTITUTION - where the Constitution does not empower the Federal Government, the States may act (the 10th amendment) and where the Federal Government is not empowered and the States do not act, the People are free to act (9th amendment).

    And the States only legitimately act through their ELECTED State Legislatures. Sometimes I'm concerned at what Trump derangement syndrome seems to do to the basic reasoning and perceptual skills of those infected with it. I hope you get over it soon!
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  14. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    The Republican Party has captured the minds of those who live in the rural counties of America. The voters are mostly farmers and rural shopkeepers. They lack education and they are not well informed. Most of what they know about politics is by word of mouth.

    Grassroots Republicans have no idea what is going on. They avoid responsible news, labeling it "fake news," and they are not fans of reality. All that can be seen on this thread. The few who do respond change the subject or label the writer a liar although sources are used to justify the position taken.

    True American conservatives would come down hard on any President who gave approval to upend a Presidential election without offering proof the election was fraudulent. Instead, the Republican Party embraces Trump's baseless claim. He is the leader of the party, and most Republican candidates state without proof that the election was stolen from Trump.

    CNN reports, "At the Conservative Political Action Conference Texas on Saturday, former President Donald Trump overwhelmingly won an unofficial straw poll of attendees who were asked who they preferred as the Republican nominee for president in 2024."

    “He’s more popular than ever,” said Jim McLaughlin, a pollster for Trump who conducted the poll.

    "McLaughlin announced the results from the CPAC Texas main stage about two hours before Trump’s scheduled appearance. Among the attendees who voted, 69% said they preferred Trump, with 24% saying they would prefer Florida Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis."
     
  15. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    CBS reports, "The Senate on Sunday passed Democrats' sweeping economic package designed to combat climate change, address health care costs and raise taxes on large corporations, marking a crucial achievement for President Biden and his party as they look to maintain their hold on Congress in the November midterm elections.

    "The plan, called the Inflation Reduction Act, cleared the upper chamber by a vote of 51 to 50 along party lines, with Vice President Kamala Harris providing the tie-breaking vote in the evenly divided Senate. Democrats used a fast-track legislative process known as reconciliation to pass the measure in the face of unanimous opposition from Republicans."

    "It's been a long, tough and winding road but at last, at last, we have arrived," Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said in remarks on the Senate floor as members prepared to vote for final passage. "Today, after more than a year of hard work, the Senate is making history. I am confident the Inflation Reduction Act will endure as one of the defining legislative feats of the 21st century."
     
  16. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    President Biden is scheduled to sign into law two major pieces of legislation on boosting US semiconductor production and expanding health care benefits for veterans exposed to toxic burn pits next week at the White House.

    President Biden authorized a U.S. drone strike in Afghanistan that took out al-Qaida leader Ayman al-Zawahri.

    In conservative Kansas, there was a startling victory for Democrats and women's rights.

    ABC reports, "The U.S. hiring saw a dramatic increase in July, as the economy added 528,000 jobs and the unemployment rate fell to a historic 3.5%. The 528,000 jobs added in July marks a significant uptick from 372,000 jobs added in June. Moreover, the figures signals an improvement from the already-robust hiring sustained over the first half of 2022, during which the economy added an average of 461,000 jobs each month.

    CBS reports, "The Senate on Sunday passed Democrats' sweeping economic package designed to combat climate change, address health care costs and raise taxes on large corporations, marking a crucial achievement for President Biden and his party as they look to maintain their hold on Congress in the November midterm elections.

    ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    ABC reports, "Americans maintain a sour view on the state of the economy and are pessimistic about its future course, with President Joe Biden’s approval rating across a range of issue areas continuing to suffer, according to a new ABC News/Ipsos poll.

    "More than two-thirds (69%) of Americans think the nation’s economy is getting worse -- the highest that measure has reached since 2008, when it was 82% in an ABC News/Washington Post poll. Currently, only 12% think the economy is getting better and 18% think it is essentially staying the same.

    "Americans' views of Biden's handling of the economic recovery remain overwhelmingly negative -- and are virtually unchanged from the same poll in early June, with only 37% of Americans approving of the job the president is doing and 62% disapproving in the latest ABC News/Ipsos poll."
     
  17. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Grassroots Democrats play a major role in these polls, and they are working hard to ensure that Republicans win control of Congress in November. It seems readily apparent that they think Republicans can do a better job with the economy.

    So, is it true that Republicans do a better job with the economy?

    10 of the last 11 recessions started under Republican presidents. Every Republican president since Benjamin Harrison, who served from 1889 to 1893, had a recession in their first term in office. Below is the start date of recessions; the following list includes the president in office at that time and their party:

    1.) February 2008 (Bush 43 / R) House - D / Senate - D

    2.) December 2007 (Bush 43 / R) House - D / Senate - D

    3.) March 2001 (Bush 43 / R) House - R / Senate - R

    4.) July 1990 (Bush 41 / R) House - D / Senate - D

    5.) July 1981 (Reagan / R) House - D / Senate - D

    6.) January 1980 (Carter / D) House - D / Senate - D

    7.) November 1973 (Nixon / R) House - D / Senate - D

    8.) December 1969 (Nixon / R) House - D / Senate - D

    9.) April 1960 (Eisenhower / R) House - D / Senate - D

    10.) August 1957 (Eisenhower / R) House - D / Senate - D

    11.) July 1953 (Eisenhower / R) House - R / Senate - R

    12.) November 1948 (Truman / D) House - R / Senate - R

    The economy was in recession for 49 quarters from 1949-2013; 8 of these quarters were under Democrats, with 41 under Republicans.

    The economic history was provided here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._...mocratic_and_Republican_presidents#Recessions

    Our latest recession took place under the Republican administration of Donald Trump in 2020. Recovery took place under the Democratic Biden administration. We currently have full employment and robust spending by American consumers, which is the main driver of our economy.

    Americans' main gripe is the economy. Why in the world are Republicans expected to win control of Congress in November? Sheer ignorance?
     
  18. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Our President is on a roll!

    The Times reports, "Suddenly, the administration that could not get anything right, that could not catch a break, was on a roll that any president would relish: Major legislation cruising to passage, at least some economic indicators heading in the right direction, and the world’s most wanted terrorist killed after a two-decade manhunt.

    "White House aides argue that the string of congressional victories — capped by the package of climate, health and tax provisions that finally cleared the Senate over the weekend — compares favorably to the two-year legislative record of most any other modern president, even perhaps F.D.R. and L.B.J.

    "Mr. Biden is still one of the most unpopular presidents in modern history at this point in his term, according to polls, and even some House Democrats quietly worry that none of the achievements will save them from an electoral rout in November."

    Thirty-seven percent approve of the job our President is doing, according to the new ABC News/Ipsos poll. Americans can't understand that the President did not cause inflation, and there is very little he can do about it because of the sheer volume of economic factors involved, none of which are of his making.

    Grassroots Democrats play a major role in these polls, and it is readily apparent that a significant number of Democrats want to ensure that Republicans win control of Congress in November.

    Contrary to that, many are cheering on Joe Biden. The last Republican President experienced a recession during his term, led a sedition attempt when he lost, and Republicans have a lousy record when it comes to the economy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._...mocratic_and_Republican_presidents#Recessions

    Democrats should think twice before encouraging a Republican win in November.
     
  19. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    It's a start.

    President Biden’s approval rating rose to its highest level in two months in a Reuters-Ipsos poll released on Tuesday.

    Biden’s approval rating rose to 40 percent, up 2 percentage points, while his disapproval rating fell to 55 percent.

    The Hill reports, "The increase is partially fueled by more Democrats approving of Biden’s job performance. The poll showed Biden’s approval among Democrats rose 9 points from last month to 78 percent."

    Of course, that means 22% of Democrats either gave Biden a thumbs down or they didn't say. It means 22% of Democrats want Republicans to win control of Congress, thinking they can do a better job with the economy, which is obviously false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._...mocratic_and_Republican_presidents#Recessions

    But things are looking up.

    If one is a Democrat, that is. CNN reports, "While recent polls suggest President Joe Biden’s approval ratings are still abysmal, he has finally started to string together some legislative victories. This week, he signed bills into law aimed at boosting American chip manufacturing and expanding health care benefits to military veterans who were exposed to toxic burn pits. The Senate also passed a major climate, tax and health care bill over the weekend, which will likely head to Biden’s desk after the House takes it up in the coming days.

    "The economy – voters’ top issue – remains in rough shape, but there have been signs in recent days that conditions could be improving. Inflation slowed in July, the latest monthly jobs report showed a higher-than-expected gain, as gas prices are continuing to drop. And a resounding victory for abortion rights advocates on a Kansas constitutional amendment last week has Democrats feeling confident that they can use the issue to their advantage.

    And let us not forget the Jan. 6 committee hearings will resume in September and their final report to voters will be just in time for the November mid-terms.

    In the meantime, in addition to the Jan. 6 coup attempt, the Republican Party leader is in trouble with the law.
     
  20. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    In the meantime, the man in the White House quietly goes about doing his job.

    That said, CNN reports, "The White House has been reluctant to weigh in on the FBI search of Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate, stressing the independence of the Justice Department. But the high-profile search has left the White House fighting for space in the news as Biden tried to celebrate legislative wins earlier this week amid the fall out from the search.

    "President Joe Biden doesn’t plan to allow the investigations into his predecessor to muddy his efforts to tout a recent string of legislative achievements ahead of the midterm elections.

    "Even as federal and state investigations into former President Donald Trump heat up and dominate headlines, senior administration officials said Biden and his surrogates will be “laser focused” in talking about policies that his administration and Democrats in Congress are delivering. The White House is launching a messaging push in the coming weeks that seeks to tout those accomplishments and paint congressional Republicans as siding with" a beleaguered party leader.
     
  21. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    "
    It has been explained to you before. You simply ignore it. Covering your ears, closing your eyes and chanting "Nah! Nah! Nah! Nah!"

    And I personally can't stand Trump. But this recent incident shows how Donald Trump has been mistreated by the Washington establishment.
     
  22. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
  23. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    You ignore the obvious.

    No president deserves credit (or blame) for the economic changes in the first year he is in office.

    Thus all your BS and "Republican recessions" is what I pointed out "BS".
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
  24. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    I have never demonized or denigrated Cheney. I didn't agree with him on every issue, but I believe he's a public spirited patriot who merits respect and admiration.
    Trump, on the other hand, is a lout and a coward.
     
  25. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    And a former president.
     

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