The Middle

Again, and I have already told you this, if you prefer to discuss this on another thread, I'm happy to do so, on the thread of your choosing. I used the topic as an illustration to demonstrate to you that your views are not consistent with the Middle, which is the thread topic, and my views are, which seemed to send you right into a nosedive.

Weirdly, you keep objecting to discussing it here, and yet, you keep discussing it here. If you would rather take the discussion elsewhere, I'm agreeable with doing so.

Can you take yes for an answer?

 

When you accuse someone of criminal activity, such as JOe Biden, the President of the United states, please understand that the only thing that matters is hard evidence.

Not the 'middle's opinion.

If you want to frame it to matters of the 2024, election, the middle's opinion will matter, but if Biden's opponent is Trump, who will soon be in jail or at least indicted on three fronts by the time of the election, I don't think your point carries much water.

 

Did you read the OP? This is precisely the point under discussion, the opinion of the broad majority is very important, especially in a representative democracy, even if you consider it unimportant, which frankly makes me wonder why you are here on this topic at all.

I'm getting the impression that you don't want to discuss the view of the vast middle on these particular topics that you say are not properly discussed here, because they expose you. I also get the sense that when you say "it shouldn't be discussed here" that what you are really saying is 'stop saying that' which again, goes very much against the premise of the OP.

You also seem to be under the false impression that if there are no criminal charges, that there are no real world consequences. I believe you are also quite wrong about that. Everyone knows that a lot of people on your side were lying constantly, and for years, to the American People and massively assaulted our electoral systems. Your claim that there will be no consequence for that, in my opinion, is wish casting.

 

See #27

 

Which is lacking in the democrat's views of Trump.

They spend years investigating and coming to all sorts of conclusions without any meaningful input from a Trump defense, and then call him guilty.

 

For about a third of a paragraph I was on board hoping we were going to have a “UNITING” conversation. But no, just more “blame the left bullshit that is right wing-nut party line division. More our “big government” IS the problem and “the left” is the cause of “big government”.

Never mind that it’s OUR government that the whole world looks to for help and IS THE example of successful government worldwide. Never mind that NO “AMERICAN” wants communism or socialism anymore than most AMERICANS want unbridled capitalism.

IF, what you’re trying to do is BLAME America’s success on the left … !!!WHY THANK YOU!!! I agree!

 

That's why I mentioned that you can find us on the discount rack between the hopeless romantics and the Utopians.

Obviously it is just a philosophical position, but it's a good one, just the same. And if you do delve into philosophy to any depth, it's a pretty logical outcome [particularly if you explore the legal philosophy and political economy].

 

Numbers are what gives groups their power...in all terms, brain power, staying power, wealth, influence, and economies of scale, to name but a few. It's why corporations are what they are.

 

Not much hope for the rest of the world, eh?

On paper, and if you follow The Constitution, I am all in, but the government happens to be horribly corrupt at the moment and is 10x's larger than need be. And it just happens to be that the Left is crazier than the Right at the moment. Again, extremes do not work.

 

Your first sentence is problematic for me. Politics have become about getting what you want. That usually requires a simple majority if Congress is involved, and packing the Courts with your squad or hold the executive order pen if necessary. I really don't see "consensus" building from either side.

 

Certainly there is hope for the rest of the world (why would you say otherwise), they have our example of government by the people.

The government is less corrupt than when tRaitor tRump was in office. Other than that anomaly, it’s no more corrupt than its ever been. And, it’s not 10X larger than it needs to be, that’s right wing nonsense.

 

One of the benefits of the American system is that a lot of power is held at the state level and usually everyone can have what they want - there is no enforced one-size-fits-all policy. The problem is that the new battlelines are not state v state, they're urban v rural, in every state. Even in Wyoming, there is a massive divide between people in Cheyenne and everyone else. Even in California, there is a massive divide between people in Redding and everyone else. The minority in Cheyenne and Redding have no way to effectively voice their grievances and have local policy relevant to them.

I don't know if there's anyway to fix this - but I think it probably starts with different policies for rural v urban areas within states. I don't know exactly how that would work, or if either side could be convinced to allow this in their stronghold states, especially on their respective sacred cow issues. More likely one side will just steamroll and oppress the other as history shows is the usual remedy.

 

The description of “the middle” reminds me of my father who would spout conservative points of view and vote Democrat in every election. Of course, in his day, Hubert Humphrey was a “radical liberal” until George McGovern started the far left Democrat revolution in 1972. That year the radicals on both sides ran the Democrat Party. McGovern won the presidential nomination, but George Wallace, a racist, “America first” candidate, finished second.

Today, “the middle” expresses moderate views, but then it goes to the polls and votes for the Democrats. Their local Democrat candidates might say moderate things to get elected, but when they get to Washington, they vote in the Democrat block with the far left. When you vote Democrat these days, be advised that you are voting for AOC and the Squad who are the true heart and soul of the modern Democrat Party. Their politics control Biden. Biden told the truth in 2020 when he said he’d “be the most progressive president ever.”

 

Consensus and compromise are highly over-rated qualities, although very necessary at times.

Communism and socialism has been somewhat successful if you consider only their true purpose which is to centralize political control into the hands of a few kingpins.

 

Consensus and compromise cannot be overrated. They built THE greatest nation ever on earth.

Only Vietnam has come close to actually implementing Communism. All others have been totalitarian claiming to be Communist.

Scandinavian nations have successfully implemented limited socialism but no nation is truly Socialist.

Control by “a few kingpins” isn’t communism or socialism; it’s totalitarianism, exactly what tRaitor tRump has in mind for These United States.

By and large AMERICANS (including “libs”) want limited, regulated capitalism. But we’re getting unregulated oligarchy.

 

Liberty and free private enterprise built the greatest nation on earth.

 

That TOO.

 

Duly noted, but I had to speak my mind.

Oh, I'd be happy to go tête-à-tête with you on the subject, start a thread in the philosophy section and I'll chime in.

 

The right on this forum has been defending Trump for years, and for years, their opinions have been smashed to bits by the mere weight of the evidence.

Well, 'guilty' is an opinion, and given the plethora of what has been dug up, it's not an unreasonable opinion.

But, of course, the only opinion that will matter will be that of 12 members of a jury, which will happen soon, more than once.

Already happened for the leader of the Proud Boys. Got 18 years in in prison. You really think Trump isn't far behind?

so, how many Trump turds do we have to dump on your plate before you can smell the stink?

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Interim Staff Report FINAL.pdf

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-J6-REPORT/pdf/GPO-J6-REPORT.pdf

Trump is a sex abuser, conman, fraudster, criminal
who loves Putin, the 'poorly educated', not to mention
that he despises democracy and has betrayed America

Trump org, indicted
Trump CFO, in prison
Trump campaign mgr., convicted.
Trump, 34 felony counts in NYC
Trump, sued for $250 million in NY.
Trump, found liable for sex abuse and defamation, must pay $5 million
Trump, being investigated for obstruction relating to the theft of national defense information documents
Trump, being investigated for election fraud in GA
Trump, being investigation for crimes related to Jan 6 attack, Jan 6 attempt to overturn the election by delaying the joint session fo congress.
Trump, settled for $25 million having scammed thousands out of millions in a fake university scam
Trump, fornicated with a porn star just after his newly wed wife gave birth and threw his long time dedicated lawyer under the bus.
Trump charity, shut down for 'illegal activity' Trump fined $2 million.

 

No doubt there is considerable room for improvement, but as Governments go, ours really isn't that bad.

As for size, AMerica is a big, diverse, country, and a big diverse country absolutely needs a big government. There is no way around it. We have the government we deserve.
.

In terms of 'crazy', nothing trumps jan 6.

Sorry.

 

Jan 6 pales to a family picnic when compared with the destructive and deleterious actions of the federal government, especially the FBI, DOJ, CIA, and DNI (not to mention the white house) in 2016.

 

That's not remotely true.
It is said, ignorance is bliss

To the op.
Middle road is best for the many.
Extremism is a disaster.

But hardly anyone is for communism. Bringing that to the conversation was RW talking point of no value.
Socialism only to keep free of runaway capitalism.

 

Why, because the demonstration happened at The Capitol? Do you believe The Capitol is any more important than any other piece of real estate in the U.S.? Do you believe that politicians are in any way, shape, or form worthy of more protection than any other U.S. citizen? How do you justify the massive state-sponsored murder and massive property destruction that went on for months in 2020 when the media and left politicians were cheering these maniacs on?

 

LOL, and they can also be quite entertaining too

Well done!

 

Dang, good stuff! Sadly, you'll not make many friends with this logic.