The Pentagon on 9/11 - MODERATOR WARNING ISSUED

Discussion in '9/11' started by Bob0627, Nov 1, 2016.

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  1. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Every so often I get responses posted that are so over the top ludicrous that I take a picture of it for posterity.

    [​IMG]


    and its now become pretty clear that no one will ever see a 'debate' beyond he said she said, name calling, and strawmen when your arguments are countered with the hard facts.

    Maybe in another 10 years the gubmint will have the resources to falsify the facts with plausible 'storys' for that as well, specially tailored for the gullible, as they have done so well thus far.

    Im sure you wont be able to wrap your mind around this but that response just bought your posts a total loss of credibility certificate.

    I also noticed that our latest addition to the thread appears to be incapable of addressing on any level the points I brought up. http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/the-pentagon-on-9-11.482175/page-100#post-1070048943 Selling himself as a long time researcher I find that a bit odd, but the day is still young.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
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  2. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    Oh do spare this forum with your posturing hyperbole!

    You failed yet again to answer major points in particular, you ignored a large and highly detailed post:-

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/the-pentagon-on-9-11.482175/page-100#post-1070047669

    When the judge of my credibility is somebody such as you, it is meaningless rhetoric. You are simply too afraid to answer and debate in good faith.

    The list gets bigger and you keep running around waving your arms around and blowing hot air!

    1. The leading edge of the tail went through the impact hole, the upper part is almost certainly sheared off as it strikes the upper edge of the impact hole.
    Regarding the scratch free window - Prove the tail is alleged to have struck it. Explain with diagrams and physics why the plane tail would hit a window.

    2. So an 8 inch hollow pole can cut a reinforced 757 wing, but the edge of a reinforced concrete wall can't slice off the top of a tail fin!? EXPLAIN THIS!

    3. I asked you to show why the pole would leave the plane NOT intact. How come you avoided that?


    4. Your remark about the Toyota truck - You aren't the spokesperson for "everybody else". Point me to a post explaining what the hell you are waffling on about, or kindly zip it.

    5. What happened to the upper fuselage on the 747, what would happen to plastic/fabric/aluminum making up the structure of the seats?

    6. Your remark about Tonka truck wheels - Explain it to me. The wheel came from a 757 landing gear, yes or no? If not, see picture above and tell me what the problem is.

    7. The supporting bolts of the poles are the weak points and where they all gave way. Do you disagree that this is where the poles gave way? Explain why these small bolts would keep the pole rigid enough to slice the wing off.
     
  3. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    • Insulting or personally attacking other posters (Rule 2)
    <Rule 2>

    REALITY:

    [​IMG]

    FANTASY:

    [​IMG]

    Maybe our new researcher is willing to help you?

    Then again maybe not since he is a OCT supporter?

    What do you think? Taking bets?

    Class dismissed
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2019
  4. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    Which part of the extremely fast passenger jet with reinforced wings striking a pole with weaker bolts holding it upright, is confusing for you? Kindly desist from positioning yourself as a physics expert. I have no idea where you got that picture from, it is somewhat incomplete as a piece of evidence.



    All giving way where the 1 inch bolts are, in the ground! The analysis was made by expert engineers and physicists - whatever makes you think that your crazy unsupported opinion carries any weight?

    This would be the one whose very informative post you are afraid to address. You completely ignored it.

    What sort of a truth seeker runs away from so many things that they should easily be able to explain!?
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  5. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    yep only took 4 poles to make it look like it went through an egg slicer!

    [​IMG]

    Of course reality doesnt count when it comes to the posers and their invincible light pole mower

    [​IMG]
    REALITY:

    [​IMG]

    Thats what its about for posers now days, deny everything with proof of nothing
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  6. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so let's look at the differences. Tell me if you agree or disagree, or continue to deny everything and run away from difficult questions.

    1. Much smaller plane, wings not as reinforced.
    2. Vertical upright wooden telegraph poles, supported several feet in the surface by concrete footings.
    3. NOT hollow tubes supported by bolts.
    4. NOT travelling 500+ mph. Not even half of that.


    You haven't even researched your own bullshit strawman evidence. This plane still sliced through two wooden telegraph poles! The wings were NOT taken off by the second pole, but by the engines impacting with the surface and ripping the wings to shreds.



    So, truth seeker, video picture 1, pole sliced through wing still intact:

    [​IMG]

    Second pole and wing still attached!

    [​IMG]

    Now what, run away from this?

    You seem scared to answer these simple questions and everybody can see that.

    The list gets bigger and you keep running around waving your arms around and blowing hot air!

    1. The leading edge of the tail went through the impact hole, the upper part is almost certainly sheared off as it strikes the upper edge of the impact hole.
    Regarding the scratch free window - Prove the tail is alleged to have struck it. Explain with diagrams and physics why the plane tail would hit a window.

    2. So an 8 inch hollow pole can cut a reinforced 757 wing, but the edge of a reinforced concrete wall can't slice off the top of a tail fin!? EXPLAIN THIS!

    3. I asked you to show why the pole would leave the plane NOT intact. How come you avoided that?

    4. Your remark about the Toyota truck - You aren't the spokesperson for "everybody else". Point me to a post explaining what the hell you are waffling on about, or kindly zip it.

    5. What happened to the upper fuselage on the 747, what would happen to plastic/fabric/aluminum making up the structure of the seats?

    6. Your remark about Tonka truck wheels - Explain it to me. The wheel came from a 757 landing gear, yes or no? If not, see picture above and tell me what the problem is.

    7. The supporting bolts of the poles are the weak points and where they all gave way. Do you disagree that this is where the poles gave way? Explain why these small bolts would keep the pole rigid enough to slice the wing off.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
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  7. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

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    This was discussed years ago and the same garbage is STILL being presented by truthers.
    https://www.debatepolitics.com/cons...s-plane-v-pole-w-576-a-55.html#post1064527989

    He was asked why the pole closer to the fuselage didn't cut the wing, but was instead snapped in half.
    plane_wing_vs_pole_zps3izthw3m.png
     
  8. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    This is all major strawman territory - he cannot fail to know this. The poles are different, the wings are different and In the case of the mid-air collision slicing off the wing tip, the surface area is wholly significantly different.
     
  9. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    The official narrative failed formally with the critique of the 911 Commission Report.
     
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  10. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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    evidence for this claim of PR sophistry? ...

    I have already provided you with evidence that a small section of the wing was severed and landed on the lawn of the Pentagon ... why do you keep ignoring this evidence? ...
     
  11. Gamolon

    Gamolon Well-Known Member

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    Hey Scott...
     
  12. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Active Member

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    Its rather easy to explain, impossible to deny. An American Airlines plane crashed into the West Wall of the Pentagon. I noticed a couple of disagreements here but without any merit. You will have to keep denying the evidence which is plentiful, here is the story of 3 Fort Myer firemen which contradict the baseless conspiracy theories regarding the Pentagon issue. I had penned this two months ago.


    American Airlines Flight 77, the facts of the matter....

    Blue skied and clear....but the billowing smoke from the towers which ranged far and wide from the impacted world trade towers 1 and 2 wouldn't be readily seen from the view of Fort Myer Fireman Al Wallace where he was sitting in Arlington, Virginia, Wallace along with Mark Skipper and Dennis Young (also Ft. Myer FD) raced to the Pentagon and get the helipad ready for the Presidents return back from Sarasota, Florida. Chief Charles Campbell, Fort Myer fire chief, calls the station to remind the trip if they are aware of what is happening in New York. Campbell bemoans over the phone to Wallace. "These were intentional acts of terrorism! Be on your toes. There could be more attacks. If it had happened in New York, it could happen in Washington.” Even thou the suspicion is there that an attack could be met at the pentagon, there are no warnings to any Pentagon employee and no evacuation is applied. The excitable members of Ft.Myer arrive at the helipad at the Pentagon manning the foam rig, Truck 161, getting it ready for the day.

    https://www.army.mil/…/patriot_day_at_knox_pentagon_firefig…

    As the firemen man the rig unknowing about what was to happen upon them in a mere one minute later, many just one mile away noticed the rapidly descending American Airlines aircraft. Arlington County Police Department Corporal Barry Foust is stopped at traffic lights less than two miles from the Pentagon. Foust hears a low, sounding roar of jet engines. He opens up the window and sees a Boeing flying very low heading towards the Pentagon. Police Motorcycle Officer Richard Cox is standing near a diner less than a mile from the Pentagon. Hearing a sudden roar, he turns and reportedly sees the plane “directly overhead… no more than a hundred feet off the ground.” Fire Captain Steve McCoy and his crew are traveling north on Interstate 395 in ACFD Engine 101, for a training session in Crystal City. McCoy reportedly sees “a commercial airliner in steep descent, banking sharply to its right before disappearing beyond the horizon,” Officer Mark Bright of the Defense Protective Service (DPS)—the Pentagon’s police force—is manning the security booth at the Pentagon’s Mall entrance, when he hears a loud noise. He will recall: “I saw the plane at the Navy Annex area [a few hundred yards from the Pentagon]. I knew it was going to strike the building because it was very, very low—at the height of the street lights.” As soon as he sees it hit the Pentagon he radius in his report of the attack, and then speeds in his police cruiser to the crash site, becoming the first officer there.

    http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp…

    9:35am, Pentagon heliport.....Al Wallace starts truck 161 and decides to pull the fire truck out of the fire station and place it in a position more accessible to the heliport landing pad. Wallace parks it about 15 feet from the Pentagon’s west wall, facing toward the landing pad. Dennis Young hears a distant roar which sounded more like an incoming, barrelled train. Wallace out of the rig finds himself staring down the Boeing plane...which is straight at him. It is about 25 feet off the ground, with no landing wheels visible, a few hundred yards away, and closing fast. He runs about 30 feet and dives under a nearby van. Dennis Young and Mark Skipper react immediately and take cover. "I started running away; I totally forgot about Skipper," Wallace said. "I felt like I was on fire." Wallace had quickly positioned himself under a nearby van pared by the heliport when he heard the ear splitting sound of the ensuing explosion from the planes impact into the West wall of the Pentagon. The impact was at 9:36am. Meanwhile Pentagon Police radios had begun to sound the alarm, that the hijacked flight had crashed into the Pentagon.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJezU0B2VfE

    Wallace removed himself from under the van where he stated would have left him burning alive from the heat of the blast. he decided to move the foam rig, truck 161, to better position it to battle the fire. What Wallace did not know at the time was that the back of the truck was engulfed in flames. Mark Skipper was outside the truck and told Wallace the rig was not operational due to the fire. "Once we realized the truck was obviously not operational, we shifted to (emergency medical services) mode," said Skipper. "There were so many people trapped in the building, we began helping with evacuations." The truck damage from the Pentagon attack has been intentionally left in place, as a reminder.

    https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-fire-truck-damage…

    According to the ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report there were two holes visible in the Pentagon immediately after the impact a 75-ft.-wide entry hole in the building's exterior wall (show pentagon entry hole) and a 12-ft.-wide hole in Ring C (show Ring C hole), the Pentagon's middle ring which was from the landing gear going thru the wall and not the fuselage. Navy command center Lt. Kevin Shaffer in his search and rescue of the building noticed a chunk of the aircraft's nose and landing gear in the service road located in the B and C rings. On Sept 14th, Fairfax Urban Search and Rescue Virginia Task Force 1 Carlton Burkhammer and Brian Moravitz observed an intact seat from the cockpit. On September 14th at 3:40am the flight data recorder boxes for flight 77 were recovered by an Arlington county fd member and a paramedic from Arlington county. Dick Bridges the deputy manager from Arlington FD said they found the boxes right where the plane entered the building under piles of burnt debris. According to Navy photographer, Kevin Rimrodt he remarked that there were so many charred bodies he had almost stepped on them many times thru-ought the first floor. The human remains recovered from the pentagon were turned over to the armed forces medical examiner office in Dover air force base. The medical examiner there was able to identify 185 victims out of 189

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/f40c3446-9b00-4365-b507-…/…

    Today, the three Fort Myer firemen are healthy in body, but shattered in spirit when the due date of September 11th arrives. Alan Wallace has long since retired and gives lectures about the days events and how the trip barely escaped death. Dennis Young, also retired, meanwhile stays in the shadows. Mark Skipper works at Naval Support Activity Mid-South in Millington, Tennessee. In 2013 the three long time members of the Fort Myer Fire department had met for a day of remembrance at the Pentagon and to take a look at the foam rig, truck 161....Mark Sipper was asked why he returned....“It’s been hard to come back and see this, but I’ve got my friends here."

    https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/…/fire-truck-damaged-on-…/

    Not a missile, not a hologram, not a fly over...nor a drone.

    The fact of the matter is that American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon. That was what everyone saw, what was evident thru the search of the debris and human remains found at the crash site.
     
  13. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Active Member

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    Yet even more information supporting the evidence that an American Airlines Boeing impacted the Pentagon.


    Lt. Col. Brian Birdwell (ARMY) who worked in the Pentagon was very much like everyone else in the initial minutes when the attacks of 9/11 were taking police.....watching the billowing smoke from the massive hole of WTC 1 on the television. He stepped out and went to the bathroom, after 10 minutes he opened the bathroom door and stood for just a second recollecting himself. What Birdwell would have absolutely no idea of was that American Airlines 77 was about to impact the Pentagon's west wall....he would be but a mere 125 feet away from the impact itself......his burned and mangled body would be dragged out from the smoldering hole and out onto the grass field, where his uniform melted onto his body. the office where his colleagues were, was destroyed from the impact, and where the nose of the aircraft was also found in pieces. Birdwell even thou he had been rescued was severely injured, over 60% of his body was burned due to the searing hot jet fuel. But one man who kept an IV in him and talked to Birdwell had always kept hope he would survive...Col. Rob Maness, who worked for the Air Force, had kept Birdwell partially alert, talking to him and praying alongside with him....but once Birdwell was rushed to the hospital, Maness lost contact with Birdwell had had not know if he lived or died.....that is until 15 years later, he would get his answer.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ter-he-got-his-answer/?utm_term=.7ff1bd7e88c8
     
  14. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sure Adam, and Bill Clinton did not have sexual relations with that woman. ROFLMAO
     
  15. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Active Member

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    So you offered nothing of value to the posts above. I will only give you one more chance.
     
  16. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thank you?

    What you present here is stale and meaningless. That is why so many on the Commission itself noted that it had been set up to fail. You haven't figured that out yet, but I did 10 years ago or more.
     
  17. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Active Member

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    And what you offer are baseless, repetitive diatribe. I have seen your kind before. They saturate 9/11 discussion boards. I will be permanently ignoring you on here.
     
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  18. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, you have hit the nail firmly on the head. Not one solitary scrap of evidence counts for any of these people. Not one. The circular nature of their arguments is baffling and continuous, the denial is absolute and the insistence that those offering solid evidence have the burden of proof is ridiculous.

    If I didn't have this (hopefully) temporary compulsion to respond to these ridiculous arm waving responses, I would join you in putting them on ignore. Ultimately, I will have to just walk away in sheer frustration at their antics, which is "victory" for them by default according to one you've yet to put on ignore.
     
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  19. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Active Member

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    I understand your need for addressing their comments. Myself, i wont give people anymore attention than what they are worth. If someone has a conflicting point to mine, or conflicting evidence to my points...i am absolutely willing to entertain them. However if all one is confined to do is negate any of my points by merely repeating the same mantra, of "i dont believe it" well i wish you well and off you go. Im not here to insult anybody, nor demean anyone or waste anyone's time.
     
  20. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    or address the difficult questions that throw a wrench the oct mantra.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  21. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Wow I forgot all about the Sandia Labs FEA!

    Baloney, it cut the wing.

    Whats the point?

    Thats a great pic Gam, to bad for the oct team its totally useless to support the invincible pole mower theory.

    Reality is not with the OCT

    [​IMG]

    Its amazing how fragile wings are in REALITY!
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  22. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Have you provided a chain of custody? Oh no you didnt, PLONK tbss its not evidence.
    Have you provided any signed affidavits? Oh no you didnt. PLONK tbss its not evidence.
    That tiny little thinglaying on someones lawn? Ah.... tonka plane then too! Looks to be about the size I would expect to those little tonka wheels they dumped in back.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  23. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    You simply fail at so many levels and apparently don't even know it.

    You keep posting a high speed collision where a vertical stabilizer that is probably about 1 inch thick tears through the edge of a wing. You simply are incapable of seeing how it does not compare to a 757 wing knocking poles over, held in place by 1" bolts.

    You missed this post deliberately. See the plane hacking through TWO wooden telegraph poles?

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/the-pentagon-on-9-11.482175/page-101#post-1070052078

    I eagerly await your evasion.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  24. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    And here we have the ramblings of a "truther". If a chain of custody was provided THEN, you would say it's fake, just like you say all the bits are faked and planted. You are like a broken record. You have nothing meaningful to say.
     
  25. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Its amazing how fragile wings are in REALITY!

    No I didnt, I dont respond to questions that require engineering talent to comprehend unless they are at a minimum formatted in engineering terms.

    Besides there is nothing to debate, the pics incontrovertibly prove the points I make.

    [​IMG]

    we can see its in pristine condition just like the invincible poser light pole mower!

    [​IMG]

    Why doesnt the oct team post it and find out? No one can predict what I or anyone else will do. thats ludicrous especially since what I ask for has never been posted so the oct team has nothing to base it on. nice copout post though. But if thats all the oct's can bring to the table is blind unsupported speculation I guess its all they got huh..... :boo:
    Ah....good argument adjustment!

    [​IMG]

    now we have noodle weak light standards and invincible hollow fiberglass winglets. brilliant!


    So we have graduated to invincible winglets now, this get more comical by the second.

    Who would have guessed that they 'reinforced' plane wings with concrete.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
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