The real cancer

Wrong again, still.

I do not make claims, I merely speak truth. A "claim" can be contested, a 'truth' cannot be contested. It is evidently clear that you are the one making all of the claims, and to this date, you still have not been able to show where I have made a 'claim'.

 

I'd like to go back to something you mentioned in an earlier post. "You claim to be Gods messenger .. That was Jesus .."

As a Christian we believe that Jesus was more than a messenger, that He was God incarnate, that He is devine and that in fact He is God. Do you believe that?

Now Baptism is another issue altogether. I see no inconsistency between Baptism in the name of Jesus or "Father, Son and Holy Spirit". Since we believe they are one in the same which is a difficult concept for us to understand, yet we accept for the Word tells us this. There is nothing wrong praying to whichever of the three names one wants to. Most Christians do pray to God and conclude with the 'In the name of Jesus".

Concerning the truth of the Gospels. Since we believe in Jesus for our Salvation at which time we are indwelled with the Holy Spirit, we do in fact gain much of our understanding and interpretation through this relationship we have with Jesus as the Holy Spirit leads us. We start out understanding the milk of the Word and through spiritual growth we are given meat and continue to grow (at least that's what we should be doing) until our death.

Certainly Christians of all stripes have come to different interpretations and different conclusions, hence our doctrinal differences, but this nevertheless does not mean we don't gain truth through our personal spiritual life with God. To suggest otherwise would be inaccurate and misleading, not to mention unscriptural.

I think the use of the terminology "speaking for God" is perhaps a misnomer and not quite what the speaker and hearer have in mind, in a sense when we speak the Word in many cases it's not interprepation, but it's God's Word and is so clear on the matter it needs not interpretation.

So let's not get bent out of shape when we disagree on terminonlogy, what is more important is what we believe and for whom we serve.

My take on things of a biblical nature is not so much where we disagree but that those areas we do agree on, such as the matter of who Jesus is and matters of Salvation. I've heard the figure of 95% of the Word Christians in Protestant demonations can agree, the other 5% is left to intrepretation and leads to doctrinal differences. I know not the accuracy of these percentages, I just know what I believe.

 

In bold text above: That is not a 'claim'. That is truth. That truth is supported by scripture as shown by BFOJ. What you are doing, calling the truth as I have related, "blasphemy" is a claim, and is a claim that you cannot support with any objective empirical evidence, or even with scripture from the Bible: What you have done is offered your own private interpretation of the Word of God.... I don't offer interpretations of the scripture.. I lean on the Holy Spirit to give me the proper interpretation of scripture.

As for your little expose' on 'baptism'... guess what... there is also recorded in the Bible a story of those who would attempt to steal or usurp that authority of the name of Jesus, and the consequences of such action. Acts 19... The Sons of Sceva. Shame on them for wrongfully attempting to use the name of the Lord for their own glory. You see, the only real baptism that matters to God is that Baptism in the Holy Spirit. The physical baptism is merely an outward showing, a public announcement of your devotion to the Lord. Study more..... you need it.

 

The problem with that position is that here in the rational world, we have figured out that cancer is caused by cellular mutation, heart problems are both congenital and contributory, traffic accidents are the result of poor driving, overdoses are the result of irresponsibility, mental illness is the result of biochemical imbalances, murder is the result of poor choices, and the like.

 

So "we" have it all figured out huh? Then answer this one. What causes the alleged cause of those events?

 

Seeing that those events hit atheists and believers, villains and saints alike, I think we can rule out that they're caused by a lack of faith.

 

Why would you rule out the 'lack of faith' issue? Are you suggesting that because someone is either a believer, saint, that they would be exempt from exercising a 'lack of faith'? On a couple of different occasions Jesus commented "Oh ye of little faith" while talking to people who believed in him and the power that was within him. As for the atheists and villains, it is obvious that (at least in the case of the atheists) that they place no faith in God, because they say they don't even believe in God.

 

The question is: do atheists and believers die of cancer because God punishes them for a 'lack of faith'? I doubt it. All people people get ill and die, even those few of us who've never lost an inch of their faith.
The only difference may be that faithful Christians' answer to the suffering that hits them may be:

"And when this cup You give is filled to brimming
with bitter suffering, hard to understand,
we take it thankfully and without trembling,
out of so good and so beloved a hand."

(Dietrich Bonhoeffer: "By Gracious Powers", full lyrics here: http://www.ekd.de/medien/film/bonhoeffer/texte.html)

 

I've lost quite a few VERY eligous family members to cancer. Tell me because it was they didn't believe enough and your alive because you do, I dare you. Try to tell me that it was god 'testing my spirituality'? then the way you view god portrays him as the biggest dick in the world. Willing to punish others simply to see if one will break. Actually isn't there a story in the bible about that? Hope that isn't true because that is very simply; unjust.

Anyway back to the matter at hand: I also think that here in america we don't have enough faith. However not in god but in ourselves. I don't have a problem with people believing in god, but that by no means you should limit yourself as a human because of it. Always keep pushing forward because those skyscrapers you see in new york? Those were MADE BY US; mankind that is. The massive farmlands that priovide food for the world? Mankind. Spaceshuttles, satellites, submarines, radio, telephone, internet, books. All made by Man. You ever heard the phrase 'the sky's the limit!' as a way of saying we can do anything? We've surpassed even that! Is the human spirit really weak enough that we HAVE to humble ourselves before god in order to fix a problem?

 

Ever heard of the story of Icarus?

Of course it's a good thing to have faith in your own abilities. It's equally necessary to curb human hybris by grounded humility - be it inspired by faith in God or mere common sense.

 

We agree then. All, the results of centuries of compounding degradation of man's genes and man's choices as sin continues to run rampant on this fallen rational world. Do not overlook the spiritual component.

Do you believe our bodies are deteriorating from the moment of birth?

 

I don't believe God punishes anyone since the resurrection of Jesus, whether one is a believer or not. Since God is Love, it is man that has the responsibility for those negatives of life. We are born to die (a physical death). See my comments in an earlier post.

 

Agreed. Result of man's sin is closer to the answer.

 

Faith is an issue here. Faith in man disappoints, faith in God does not. Why you would suggest that man limits themself by believing in God does not compute. I can't imagine anything further from the truth. My faith in myself is the result of my faith in God, not viceversa and no man without God can surpass that IMHO. I cannot conceive of fallen man being so self-centered.

'The sky's the limit!' is thanks to God, not man. What I see is that man humbles himself before other men and the problem and there is no fix for that.
Can man create life? Can he create dirt? Man does have limits, whether it be the maximum number of years of his lifespan, an upper limit of IQ, ability to exceed the physical limits imposed by our genetics and on and on. To not consider another reason for the beginning of humanity other than evolution (Father fish as mentioned on PBS), to think that man has, can or will have all the answers someday is both naive and self-indulgent.

You give credit where credit is not due. You overlook that which gave space and life to us mere humans. You will be disappointed if it's man that you trust for they will fail you. They are programmed that way for a reason which I hope soon you'll learn.

 

Don't even try it. My wife of 28 years of beautiful marriage was a victim of cancer. So don't even try to pull that crap on me. My wife was a very firm believer in God, she is still Christian and is living with the Lord Jesus now. The whole ordeal was a test of my faith and my spirituality, and it was her strength and courage that allowed me to see her real beauty of spirit through her anguish. If you are bitter at anyone about your lost family members, then IMHO, you should do some (quite a bit of) soul searching... your own soul.

Unjust by your standards. But who made you the Creator of this world? If you are bitter with God, then take it up with God. Go burn His churches; Kill all the preachers: Do whatever you think is the right way to seek vengeance against God. Are you a coward? Don't you have the backbone to seek out vengeance or your so-called justice?

Obviously you do, else you would not be here launching an attack against those that do put their faith, trust, confidence in God.

Oh now you KNOW what limitations have been placed on me by either myself or someone else? Are you the new 'KNOW IT ALL' for this week?

Did you ever learn the same lesson from scripture,,, as in the story behind the Tower of Babel? What was it that God said just prior to the destruction of the Tower of Babel? You don't know. Do you also KNOW the 700 plus promises in the Bible made for those that do trust in the Lord? No? I didn't think so.

 

Nice quote, too bad it is not from the Bible.

As for the questions that I posed to you, let me repeat them:
"So "we" have it all figured out huh? Then answer this one. What causes the alleged cause of those events?"

When I asked those questions, I was responding to your declarative statement... I was not responding to any previous questions from someone else.

 

The early Christians did not believe that Jesus was God. It was not until almost 3 centuries after Christ that this believe was adopted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertullian

It was Constantine who made the trinity doctrine.

The Truth is that most Christians do not have a good grasp on the Truth.
The Truth is that the books of the bible have changed over time to fit in with doctrine and not the reverse.

This does not mean that there is not a message worth listening to, but that one should not take everything literally, or as Truth.

What concerns me is when Christians claim to speak for God claiming that:

God is against abortion
God is against drinking
God is against sex
God is against .. x, y, z

and then trying to force these beliefs on others.

In all cases it is interpretation. In many cases the God of the OT and the God of the NT contradict each other.

What is important is to keep things strait. When they make a moral statement they should say "The Bible says this" not "God says this"

This is because for over 1000 years, those who disagreed were persecuted or killed.

 

You posted that you had daily conversations with the Holy Spirit.

 

As a matter of 'TRUTH'(not as a 'claim') I did say that I have daily conversations with the Holy Spirit. So what is your point?

 

And futher you said that you knew the truth of certain scripture on the basis of those conversations.

 

As a matter of 'TRUTH'(not as a 'claim') I did say that
I know the truth of certain scripture because the Holy Spirit had told me the "Truth" about certain scripture. Again... what is your point. I still have not made any 'claims', instead, I speak "Truth".

 

Since you know the truth.....You can anwer this question for me.....

Why does god cause the death of countless innocent people in natural disasters every year?

 

Did you even read my statement? Here, let me print that statement again:

"I did say that I know the truth of certain scripture because the Holy Spirit had told me the "Truth" about certain scripture."

You see, the question you asked is not even addressed in scripture. If you think that your question is addressed in scripture, then show the scripture reference per your own wording that you have chosen to describe such incident as highlighted in red above.

Also, be aware that if you are accusing God of committing such atrocious things, then you must be retaining a confidence in the existence of God, else your statement is merely a flame bait.

 

As soon as you say you know the truth of certain scripture on the basis of conversation with the Holy Spirit, you are saying that your speech is not your own but that it comes from God.

 

Did you even read my statement? Here, let me print that statement again:

"I did say that I know the truth of certain scripture because the Holy Spirit had told me the "Truth" about certain scripture."

You see, the question you asked is not even addressed in scripture. If you think that your question is addressed in scripture, then show the scripture reference per your own wording that you have chosen to describe such incident as highlighted in red above.

also be aware, that if you are accusing God of committing such atrocious acts, then you must also be retaining a certain level of confidence in the existence of God, else your question is merely a flame bait.