The true left did have a purpose

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by yangforward, Aug 14, 2024.

?

Does the American Left have any value?

  1. No

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. Sometimes

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,203
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Karl Marx was a contemporary of Charles Dickens - both lived in London
    in the mid to late 1800s.

    If you had lived in the situation he was in, you would understand why
    Mr. Marx made the suggestions he made.

    Is there anything in the writings of value in the present?

    Yes, his 8 hour workday was suggested partly to reduce
    the industrial accidents, if I understand correctly. He
    recommended 8 hours to sleep, 8 hours to work and
    8 hours to use as you wish.

    He wanted people to be able to live fulfilled lives.
     
  2. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,203
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A long and fulfilling life requires some resources and
    reasonable duration.

    Back then many in England died of cold or disease - life
    expectancy was 40 to 45 years.

    There are still parts of the US and UK where
    people die for avoidable reasons. But do not
    think many the charlatans of the Democrat
    have any plans to make the lives of homeless
    people, or the mentally disturbed or deficient
    or veterans better or that victims of violence
    will benefit from defunding the police.

    America does not need a left, it needs universal
    healthcare and the existing charities do pretty
    well it has to be said with the rest.

    We do need also to help marriages to be
    stable, and to help young mothers.
     
  3. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,203
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What we don't need is the modern Democratic
    Party and it's need to constantly go to war,
    claiming that it is helping poor people in the
    country we bomb.

    All that 'help' we gave South Vietnam got
    4 million of them killed, and a lot maimed
    or dosed with dioxin. And right now that
    help has got 600,000 Ukrainians killed all
    for a vain promise of the right to join NATO,
    which most of them didn't want anyway.

    Just voting blue or red isn't enough, the
    overall framing narrative is often deceptive.

    Look at what is actually happening, not at
    what they tell you is happening.
     
    Josh77 likes this.
  4. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2020
    Messages:
    12,890
    Likes Received:
    13,025
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Given the incursions made by Ukraine I think the war will be over soon.
     
  5. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,203
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The 1789 use of the term 'Left' was for a more equal distribution of
    wealth and capital, and against inherited privilege.

    The US present day use of the term 'Left' appears to mean
    'progressive', in other words, change.

    And it is become evident that means throwing away everything
    that worked and replacing it with a feudal system run by
    Obama, Clinton, Biden, Blinken Etc. Cabal.
     
  6. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    22,386
    Likes Received:
    10,166
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No problem with your post other than the fact you avoided the EVILS of Marxism and what it does to the individual as well as the family unit With the collective held supreme in all instances. That concept is very dangerous and the left constantly promotes it. At first very subtle, as it picks up steam. They control media and public education. What more could they want?
     
    yangforward likes this.
  7. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,203
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, the left could have value by changing our insane for-profit medical system to something different
    but they don't seem too keen on doing that, just on starting wars.

    The True Left did have value in England because in 1948 the country was bankrupt, having got involved in a lot of
    wars, they are still in debt to the US for WW1, and most of the population were too poor to pay for
    medical treatment.

    As it happens the single payer system is far simpler than the 904 health insurance company Etc. Etc.
    US disaster area, it wins not because it is ideologically better but because the alternative we are
    running is impractical.

    .
     
  8. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,203
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't agree with Karl Marx, but can understand some of his suggestions because his was
    a time of desperate problems that seemed to need some kind of solutions.

    The solutions were already in existence in the United States because the government was
    in some cases, selling off farm land in 1/4 of a square mile purchases. Everyone got the
    same, no one could buy two.

    That was fair distribution similar to socialism in only that way, and it was in the US
    more than a hundred years ago.

    It was on a macroscopic level, not the govt coming in and saying 'we will destroy society
    and take all your money'.

    And the first land ownership in the USSR was happening around that time, but then
    some bureaucrats changed the system, so in some of the early days of socialism,
    the feudal serfs became land owners. But that didn't last.

    What makes the present world politics so complicated, there are real forces
    behind the scenes, and they don't match up with national boundaries.

    What the core Democrats are trying to sell right now as socialism is murder, theft,
    sexual immorality, chaos, and the feudal system.
     
  9. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,203
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Bidens, Clintons, Bushes, the oligarchs, are claiming to be true help everyone
    socialists but it's a lie, they are only out to help themselves.
     
    yabberefugee likes this.
  10. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,203
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If you go back to 1789 'Left' was for more equal distribution of wealth
    so that is a lower Gini Coefficient in terms of statistics. Complete
    equality would have a Gini Coefficient of zero.

    The extreme Right in economic terms would mean a greater disparity
    of wealth and at the far extreme a Gini Coefficient of One, mathematically,
    but usually expressed as 100 percent or as simply 100.

    With this quantitative concept of left and right, most people prefer a setting
    after some disputation, of between 30 and 40.

    Common sense wins.
     
  11. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2020
    Messages:
    12,890
    Likes Received:
    13,025
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And they won't tolerate Russian invasions either, tut tut. Very bad for Russia!
     
  12. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,203
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Morally and ethically the 'left path' refers to the forbidden, while
    the 'right path' is the right way to live.

    So that is how I get confused.
    In terms of economics I'm somewhere in the middle but in moral
    and ethical terms I'm on the right.
     
  13. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,203
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Dr Jordan Peterson wrote one book:
    12 Rules for Life - an antidote to chaos

    followed by another book
    Beyond Order - 12 More Rules for Life


    Real life is like that, apparently.
    Though I'm mainly trying to make order from chaos,
    the opposite is sometimes necessary such as after
    the Protestant Reformation, the Puritans went too far
    and whitewashed churches, which made them boring.

    The Baroque movement was going in the opposite direction
    and producing complexity.
     
  14. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,203
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Basically the American left's proclivity for throwing away order
    and meaning is excessive, and their tendency to go to war is
    even worse.

    Perhaps modern day Russia is too regimented.

    Take a look at Britain where the homeless don't
    even have cardboard boxes to live in. Here in
    the US the homeless have proper camping gear,
    tents, and bicycles.

    I think the US has to move more in the direction
    of order. Trump is far better than Biden. But then
    it would be good to mix in some Stein if possible...
     
  15. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,203
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    113
    On Feb 24 2022 the Russian Federation moved in forces
    to protect Donetsk. People need to refresh their memories,
    or just build time machines and go back and watch the war unfold.
     
  16. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2020
    Messages:
    12,890
    Likes Received:
    13,025
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Even if true, Donetsk is in Ukraine. Not Russia's problem or concern. That would be the equivalent of US invading Mexico because of ex-pats getting into the trouble on the Mexican side.

    What Russia should have done is offer asylum for anyone wanting to leave Ukraine (again assuming your implied narrative is true, which I don't believe it is).
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2024
  17. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2022
    Messages:
    5,203
    Likes Received:
    2,241
    Trophy Points:
    113
    By 'True Left' I mean the left I knew in Britain many years
    ago of a somewhat less inequal wealth, not the Left of
    the US Democratic Party of destroy everything.

    And I'm very happy with Elon Musk's wealth because
    it is money he has made by making things more
    efficient, and that is the benefit of having a
    difference in wealth between people or communities
    that it points the way to a more efficient way of
    doing things and benefits everyone.

    What Elon Musk is doing is the whole point in
    having economic inequality. He is making more
    progress than most of NASA made getting to
    the moon. His rockets are efficient and reusable,
    he has put up lots of satellites. And he is risking
    his own money with each big high risk innovation.
     

Share This Page