I would like to relate to you a story that was told in 19th century by a certain French bishop Louis Gaston de Sègur. Louis de Sègur was born in the year 1820, he died in 1881. He labored in Paris for the defense and preservation of the faith among Catholic people. He was an ardent preacher and accomplished author, publishing numerous pamphlets against the anti-Catholic teachings of the day. Now among the many pamphlets he published was one titled "Hell", and in that pamphlet, Bishop Sègur related what he claimed to be a true story, which involved his maternal grandfather, a Russian count by the name of Rostopchin. This is the story as told by Bishop de Sègur: It was in Russia, in Moscow, a short time before the great campaign of 1812. My maternal grandfather Count Rostopchin, the military governor of Moscow under the czar Paul I, was a very close friend with a certain Count Orloff, a soldier who was famous for his bravery but is godless as he was brave. One day after a fine supper count Orloff and one of his friends the Russian general whom we shall call Vladimir who was also a very godless man engaged in terribly ridiculing religion, especially the teaching of hell. During the course of the impious conversation Orloff said and what if by coincidence something would exist on the other side of the curtain. Now by the other side of the curtain Orloff meant if there were a hell. "Okay," replied general Vladimir, "whichever of the two of us shall who shall depart first ,he will come back to give word of it to the other one. Is that agreed?" the general asked Orloff. Count Orloff replied "An excellent idea!" Bishop Sègur then writes that both men gave each other their word of honor that they would not fail in this commitment. Some weeks later it was reported that Napoleon Bonaparte, the Emperor of France, was moving his great armies to strike Russia. The Russian armies were deployed to resist the French. The general received orders to leave immediately with several divisions of infantry and cavalry now one day very early in the morning. Bishop Sègur continues: While my grandfather Rostopchin was dressing when the door of his room burst open. It was Orloff, still wearing his sleeping gown and slippers, his hair on end with a wild look in his eyes and looking deadly pale. My grandfather cried, "Orloff is that you? At this hour and in those clothes, what is the matter with you? Orloff said, "I believe that I'm going mad. I just saw General Vladimir." My grandfather replied "General Vladimir, did he come back then?" "No," continued count Orloff, who now sat down upon the sofa and buried his head into his two hands . "He has not come back, and that is what frightens me!" Now my grandfather did not understand what Count Orloff was trying to say. "Tell me then what happened to you." Orloff who had begun sobbing at this point and told his story to my grandfather. "Some time ago general Vladimir and I swore a mutual oath that the first of us who died would come back to tell the other one if there really is something on the other side of the curtain. Well, this morning, hardly a half hour ago, I was calmly in my bed awake for some time when suddenly the two curtains surrounding my bed were parted and there I saw general Vladimir standing upright, pale as a ghost, his right hand on his chest and saying to me in a loud voice 'There is a hell and I am there'." My grandfather calmed Orloff down as best as he could. He began to speak of hallucinations and nightmares and perhaps the possibility that Orloff was still asleep at the time. My grandfather had Orloff taken back to his hotel, but ten or twelve days after this strange incident an army messenger brought my grandfather, the military governor of Moscow, news of the death of General Vladimir. It was the very morning of the day that count Orloff had claimed to have seen and heard him. It was the very same hour in fact that he had appeared to Orloff in Moscow. The general had been shot through the chest and had fallen instantly dead; and according to the Russian soldier Count Orloff, General Vladimir came back, as he said he would, and declared, "There is a Hell, and I am there." http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/h067rp.HellExists.html A reading of this story can be found in the video here.
I don't really think the oaths of a couple men can overrule the commands of either God or Satan. If he was in Hell I highly doubt the Devil is going to let him come back to warn people. Cute story though.
He might have been given the opportunity to quickly go back before he was sent to Hell. That's not uncommon in Near Death Experiences. The person coming close to death meets a guide in a sort of antechamber to the world beyond and that guide tells them they are not ready to die yet, so they get sent back and their body comes back to life. He appeared as an apparition so who knows? Maybe he was actually in Hell and his image was projected into the world of the living like some sort of futuristic holographic communication device. Read Luke 16:27-31. As soon as the rich man in the parable dies he begs Abraham to send Lazarus back to the world of the living to warn his five brothers. (Abraham basically replies back it wouldn't do any good)
Not saying it isn't impossible but if that were true why would only a select few get to come back? Its more than likely some neurological thing going on within the brain at the time of death that causes people to think this. Not sure why God or Satan would waste time telling someone they aren't ready, they just wouldn't do anything and let the person be revived. If they wanted to make their presence known they'd probably be given that person a message to bring back or a mission to accomplish or something.
Probably not a common occurrence. A rare exception might have been made for him. He probably told his story to whoever he met as soon as he was on the other side, and whoever was there in charge of him was amused enough by it to give him the chance to warn his still living friend.
That's what I was thinking. If it was some demon in Hell or something, he probably knew it wouldn't make much difference if he indulged his captive and allowed the man to fulfill his oath. We don't have any evidence that the apparition of his dead friend led to Orloff completely turning around his life and changed his fate. I suspect very likely not.
Gene died in Korea. Due to being shot by North Koreans in the early days of the war. He told Mom he was dead and not to worry. She saw him lying face down in a rice paddy. I later after extensive research confirmed her story by locating his unit's army reports, following the day and time, change of time zones and more that she got her facts right. Mom knew little about Korea. She managed to go as far as the 10th grade in school. Mom told Dad. Dad confirmed her story to him.
This guy was there. I hope he made it back okay. Pope Francis Finds Self In Hell After Taking Wrong Turn In Vatican Catacombs https://www.theonion.com/pope-francis-finds-self-in-hell-after-taking-wrong-turn-1823467168
So Satan is either a tool of God or God is a tool of Satan....The Bible tries to play it off as a needed association, just like all the other religions...
Devils and angels are creation of god ... and you are creation of god too. Non sub homine, sed sub deo et lege. The only real responsibility for human beings exists in god and his laws - and not in the bullshit human beings are doing. To be the crown of creation gives no one any right to destroy his creation. If you let yourselve or others go to hell, then I don't think god will look at you - or anyone else, who is doing the same - with smiling eyes.
You mean "your" God.. Your God created evil and allows it to live....So God is the reason that evil exist yet he has no desire to rid the world of such a nasty spirit..
If I were religious I would definitely support the idea that we are already in Hell or purgatory. We're the bad lot (explains suffering), Hell is created by our collective actions, the individual can escape it by accepting the Lord. We can't be permitted to know this condition or we would act out of our pure self-interest, hence free will despite Heaven and Hell. That has matched with my experience. There is no substitute for intention and action. You can inhibit their action by restricting their liberties, but if they still have malicious intent it's all over. People fool themselves into thinking they can follow a plan to do the right thing and still keep intact their malicious intent. They harbor hate and insecurities which prevent them from bringing about the world we all want to see.
Exactly: God is the reason why everything exists - he created also the possibility for this what you call evil. What is evil is by the way not always only evil but sometimes valuable too. Sometimes mutations (- a million times evil, one time good -) for example are able to modify even a biological species. A wonder. Unfortunately some people let it not be to open Pandora's box. If somewhere is a red button, where's written on "do not press this red button", then I don't know how many people try to find out what this button is doing by pressing it - instead to ask someone who knows something about. My father created everything - what's more than I know - and who created what you see all around? You? Yourself? How do you create what you do not know? And why do you exist?
