They need to tax the poor/middle class more!

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Aquarius, Jun 22, 2021.

  1. Aquarius

    Aquarius Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    286
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    It would generate greater revenue for the state than taxing such a small percentage of the population as the wealthy. The wealthy already pay more than their fair share.
     
    DennisTate, Turtledude and Joe knows like this.
  2. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    26,309
    Likes Received:
    7,461
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If we actually look into it, we know that the system is tilted heavily toward the rich. We have thousands and thousands of pages of tax law, nearly all of which only applies to the very, very wealthy. Those pages contain thousands and thousands of loopholes and tricks and exceptions. Some wealthy folks have 1,000 or 2,000 or more corporations that are tangled and complex to give them tax rates as low as zero, and commonly as low as 2 or 3 percent. THAT IS WHY TAX LAW IS SO COMPLEX. IT’S DESIGNED FOR THEM.

    Because of this complexity the IRS will come after you if you forget to include your $500 barter in your tax return, but they won’t go after the very rich who owe MILLIONS of dollars of taxes if all the tricks were resolved and their returns were made to comply with law because they can afford a tax attorney to drag it out for years but the IRS cannot afford to go after a million rich tax cheats. Why? BECAUSE TAX LAW IS DESIGNED THIS WAY TO PROTECT THE CHEATING RICH.

    This is all basic and openly admitted fact. And my question for you is “WHAT CAN YOU SUGGEST SHORT OF REVOLUTION THAT 1. WILL SOLVE/CORRECT THIS PROBLEM, AND 2. IS ACTUALLY DOABLE?"
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2022
    Sunsettommy likes this.
  3. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2021
    Messages:
    13,465
    Likes Received:
    9,920
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I totally agree. The poor are the greediest group in America. They want to rely from anyone else but themselves. Nothing is more greedy than wanting what others have without paying for it or earning it for yourself.
     
    Turtledude likes this.
  4. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    26,309
    Likes Received:
    7,461
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    My post above proves that the very, very rich are the most greedy.
     
  5. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    30,253
    Likes Received:
    20,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    define very very rich and define greedy.

    those who want to keep what they make may be greedy but that is not nearly as bad as those who want to the government to take from others
     
    Bullseye likes this.
  6. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    30,253
    Likes Received:
    20,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    why do us in the top one percent pay almost 40% of the income tax and ALL THE DEATH tax if the tax code was designed to benefit US? the tax code was designed to benefit accountants, tax lawyers and most of all-CONGRESS-an entity that gained tons of extra constitutional power through the IRS code that the founders never intended congress to have
     
    Bullseye and Hotdogr like this.
  7. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    30,253
    Likes Received:
    20,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    the lowest 80% pay a lower share of the income tax burden than at any time since WWII. this means tons of taxpayers do not get the necessary feedback as to the cost of government programs, so they continue to vote for those who pander to them with promises of more government handouts
     
  8. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,830
    Likes Received:
    3,054
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes, the lower/middle class aren't paying enough! ;)

    Too bad that troublesome little thing called the poverty line swallows up half of the population. :rolleyes:
     
  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,175
    Likes Received:
    62,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    if we taxed all income as income, the rich would pay the same tax per dollar as the middle class, that would be fair

    no one should pay a tax for any dollars earned under the poverty limit, rich or poor

    f the poverty limit is set at 20k, and you earn 41k, you pay tax on 21k
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2022
  10. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    30,253
    Likes Received:
    20,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    most americans have no idea what real poverty is. Fly into Cali columbia-a modern airport built to help host the 75 Pan American games and see hovels right next to the run way for example.
     
  11. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,394
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not when that small percentage owns most of the wealth...
    That has to be trolling.

    "We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."
    -- real estate billionaire Leona Helmsley
     
  12. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,394
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There is nothing fair about being taxed according to how much you contribute to the community by your labor.
    Or any other dollars they earn by commensurate contributions to production.
    Why should you pay tax on any of it?
     
  13. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,394
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's good, because the higher one's personal income, the more of it is likely to be unearned economic rents.
    They don't get to keep the handouts. As the Henry George Theorem shows, effectively all government spending on desirable public services and infrastructure is taken by landowners as a welfare subsidy giveaway.
     
  14. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,394
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All correct.
    That's easy: the only possible solution is to shift the burden of taxation off economic activity -- income and consumption -- and onto privilege, especially the unimproved rental value of land. Land can't be moved to a tax-friendlier jurisdiction, and it can't be hidden. That is why the greedy, evil, privileged, parasitic rich will do anything to stop it from being taxed.

    If you oppose taxation of the unimproved rental value of land, then you are against justice, and in favor of injustice. You literally prefer evil to good. It's that simple.
     
  15. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,394
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That will be news to the poor working two and three jobs...
    You mean like the privileged do, by owning others' rights to liberty?

    The greed of the welfare chiseler for unearned wealth is to the greed of the landowner as the brightness of the moon is to the brightness of the sun.
     
  16. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,394
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't know how many "verys" are relevant, but the top 1% in assets or net worth are certainly rich; and greedy is being intensely desirous of more than one needs or deserves.
    It is precisely the government that takes from the 99% and gives to the 1% via government-issued and -enforced privileges like land titles, IP monopolies, bank licenses, etc.
     
  17. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,394
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Because it is a tax on income, the top 1% of income recipients get a similar fraction of the income, and the tax is designed to be progressive.

    See how that works?
    That is a red herring. Estate tax revenue is a microscopic fraction of all tax revenue, and there are so many ways to avoid it, very few rich people pay any significant amount of it.
    How could it be otherwise, when the top 1%, 0.1%, 0.01%, etc. account for increasing shares of all wealth?
    It's self-evidently designed to benefit the rich, who get orders of magnitude more benefit from it than accountants, lawyers, and members of Congress combined.
     
  18. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,175
    Likes Received:
    62,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    cause we love our country and support it, some only one to take it seems

    without taxes, this country would be a 3rd world country
     
  19. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,394
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, people who actually love and support their country oppose taxes that damage the economy and people of that country.
    No, those who earn income by their contributions to production have already given. It is those who claim the ones who have made such contributions should have even more taken from them by taxation who only want to take.
    That doesn't mean unjust and harmful taxes are as beneficial as just and beneficial ones.
     
    Turtledude likes this.
  20. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,175
    Likes Received:
    62,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    if we had zero taxes, that would damage this country
     
  21. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,394
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That utterly inane comment does not address the issue of what should rightly be taxed, how, and why. Do you think that because a civilized society requires taxes, a tax calculated on the basis of people's weight, IQ, or shoe size would be as practical and beneficial as a tax on pollution, alcohol, or cigarettes?
     
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,175
    Likes Received:
    62,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think income tax is the best way to tax, but.... I think the rich should pay the same tax per dollar earned as the rest of us
     
  23. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2016
    Messages:
    11,394
    Likes Received:
    3,008
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why?
    Why should anyone pay any tax on the dollars they earn? That is the measure of what they have contributed. People should pay taxes on the basis of what they are taking from the community, not what they are contributing to it.
     
    Sunsettommy and Turtledude like this.
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,175
    Likes Received:
    62,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    after you make so much money, you don't need to spend as much of your income to survive, so in order for the rich to pay their fair share, they need to pay the same tax per dollar as the middle class does
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2022
  25. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    11,021
    Likes Received:
    5,248
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It occurs to me that perhaps the source of your angst is that you characterize people who are complying with the law as "tax cheats".

    The solution is to abolish the IRS in favor of the FairTax, or one of the many other well thought out flat tax proposals, to eschew the tsunami of propaganda that will flood you against such an idea, and to actively work to vote out anyone who will not support it.
     

Share This Page