"Tolerance and apathy are the last traits of a dying society." Aristotle

So said a dying nation.

 

That's the trendy equating "advanced technology" with "advanced culture".

Europe in the Dark Ages for example had more "advanced" technology than the Ancient Romans and Greeks, but their culture was definitely not so - Nazi Germany also had much more advanced military technology than the Allied powers.

One of the saddest aspects of cultural backwardness is when people think they're living in some new "utopia" just because they have access to something electronic like an Iphone. It's a delusion trendy among hipsters and young people without a lot of education.

 

What other measure would you like to use if not technology?

If my "much more" you mean "slightly" then I agree.

America caught up and even surpassed them in a matter of a few years. It would have taken the ancients a little longer to catch up to us IMO.

Then give me your criteria for what makes one culture better than another. We dwarf the ancients in every way that matters. They toddled where we stride.

 

Is this even a serious post?

The Catholic Inquisitors made "technological progress" in the development of torture devices, but I don't think that anyone thinks that torturing heretics is "progress".

The Soviets also had better and more nuclear weapons than the US, but no one would consider that the hallmark of "progress".

No true Scotsman fallacy - in a lot of ways ancient and simpler cultures dwarf us - cultures which don't live on processed foods and drive 2 minutes when they can walk for example are healthier and less obese. Not to mention less materialistic.

 

No ... Not " we're there " but we've been there.Since about 2009.
I could and would like to argue ever since Obama's 2nd day if office.
Or the day of his 1st Executive Order { EO 13489
It was Issued for immediate release on January 21,2009.Just 24 hrs. after
having flubbed his First Inaugural swearing-in.
Obama pledging as Candidate in 2008 to have THE MOST TRANSPARENT
ADMINISTRATION IN HISTORY. Yeah ... right. Biggest *******ned lie in
American History.Of course Obama as candidate was advertised as a Moderate.
The term " Liberal " being OFF LIMITS to the Press/MSM.

 

Progress is a word that is arbitrary, one mans progress is another's degradation. Calling a man a female is not "progress", killing babies is not "progress"

 

Heck........I forgot I even wrote this last year.
Truer than ever. Thanks to whoever resurrected it.
Das vidanyia

 

Yes. This is my serious face.

Why are you afraid to answer my question?

Yeah, in some vague way you can't seem to define or articulate. Where are your examples?

LOL! The Romans were insanely materialistic. And yeah, a lot of them were also obese...mostly the rich ones. Because only the rich of that time could afford to eat like our poor do.

Our culture does not require people to eat processed foods, and a lot of them don't. Even the ones that do live dramatically longer than the ancients and in far better comfort. They are far better educated, get far better medical care, and are far more knowledgeable about the world. Even mediocre examples of people in our culture know far more about the world and the universe than the wisest of the ancients did.

 

Things that are "Truer than ever" don't require a fictitious appeal to authority.

 

It's a misquote; http://www.answers.com/Q/Where_did_...pathy_are_the_last_virtues_of_a_dying_society

 

Give me one good reason why a president should be transparent after finding out about this; http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/26/democrats-gop-plot-obstruct-obama

 

Not sure, but assuming in 20 years our technology had improved, but we had become a fascist state, I doubt you'd consider that "cultural progress".

There's no single measure, but things such as overall level of happiness, moral character, purpose in life, and other aspects of life are more important at determining cultural progress than technology alone.

That means that more of our population has succumbed to it than did years before Walmarts and McDonald's were just a 5 minute drive away. Not to mention we used to manufacture our own goods, rather than import the majority of it from Chinese sweatshops.

Here's one of the biggest fallacies - that "ease" and "convenience" are the ultimate measures of progress, but I'd say this is untrue when it becomes excessive - because humans as a species weren't evolved to just sit around in an office chair and have everything they need just a 5 minute drive a way - much like a tiger in a zoo cage might live 'safer' than one in the jungle, but it's quality of life and happiness there will be diminished

Memorizing something off of Wikipedia isn't equivalent to taking time to study the world - knowledge =/= wisdom.

Knowledge alone isn't automatically "progress" either - again the Nazis were very advanced in science and military technology.

 

Aristotle also defended slavery as a part of nature

 

Maybe he had a time machine and has been reading my posts! LOL!

Seriously, he is correct. Folks can talk about the acceptance of homosexuality as being a bad sign but I believe it is only a sign of apathy. People just do not care.

I believe that is sad. While I do not whole heartedly agree wit homosexuality I do not believe it to be as horrible for society as some think it is. Too bad people do not care enough to even have an honest debate or even a thoughtful and productive conversation about it.

- - - Updated - - -

Ever read Darwin's thoughts on blacks?

 

So it comes down to opinion. You simply have a different set of criteria than I do.

Which is fine. But my criteria determine which cultures flourish and which cultures are more likely to die out. "Happiness" is highly arbitrary, and some people consider wealth and security and convenience and freedom to greatly contribute to happiness. Most of the Ancient cultures practiced slavery, and I doubt life was very pleasant for their slaves.

We are providing them with work. Do you think the people in the sweatshops would be happier out of work and starving? It's relative. The sweatshops may be bad, but there are situations that are even worse.

Besides, technology would remove the need for sweatshops, so you are kind of proving my point anyway. Sweatshops are what you use when you can't automate. The cotton gin would have ended slavery even if the civil war had not. Technology greatly enhances a society.

Tigers in the zoo are not sapient...they do not dream and wonder and reason. Human beings do. We are designed primarily to think. Our natural happy state is not to be scrounging for food on a Savannah or swinging through trees in a jungle. We are creatures of technology. Conveniences remove distractions so that we can enjoy our natural state.

Even the ancients believed this. Why do you think the Romans developed all that technology? We are like them, only better. Our conveniences are better than theirs.

"Wisdom" is arbitrary and subjective. Knowledge is not.

The Ancients were every bit as savage as the Nazis in a lot of ways. Slavery and oppression were common, both on the individual and societal levels.

And you may have noticed the Nazis do not exist anymore. We have technology and progress to thank for that as well.

 

does that make Aristotle right?

 

I have.

Wikipedia goes into more detail:

and

 

Please provide a reference - book, chapter, etc. Aristotle said a LOT of things.

 

I think Sadistic Savior was being facetious. I hope he was anyway.

The Ancient Greeks: wonderful and enigmatic art and architecture, including the Parthenon which 'all the king's horses and all the king's men will never be able to put together again'. They've been trying for twenty years to 'restore' the Parthenon, but it was built like a 3-D puzzle. Each piece has its exact own place; and even with computer programs they can't piece them together again.

 

almost 19k troll posts and then this statement well, the troll is gonna troll i guess

 

Actually it's "da svidanya."

And no, America is nowhere close to dying. I am certain that America's best days are still ahead.

 

Scientific consensus does not agree with you.

Human beings are not divided into separate species because there has been continuing interbreeding between populations throughout human history. There is no population of humans that has remained isolated from other humans long enough to become a new species.

 

I was not.

Yeah, thats way more impressive than sending people to the moon or creating the internet.

 

I believe we started out as different species. The African continent, minus North Africa, was isolated for hundreds of thousands of years if we can believe the anthropologist powers-that-be. Africans have a unique evolutionary history, occupied a distinct geological niche; they are different than Asians and Europeans morphologically, biochemically (they have diseases and haplotypes specific to their 'race') and behaviorally. . Asians too can be said to meet the criteria for a distinct species, and probably Semites too. Who really knows how long Africans, Europeans, Asians, and Semites lived in isolation before encountering other human species. No one really knows. But if we go by the specific criteria that biologists and zoologists use to classify distinct species, we are all of the same genus, but not of the same species.
We are told that 'Eve' was the mother of civilization, but according to evidence from mitochondrial DNA, there were at least seven Eves. Is this where the different species came from? I think so.
Also, although we only differ by 1 or 2% genetically, the primate genus with all its different species is probably is no more differentiated genetically than humans are, and no one would say that a chimp is the same species as a gorilla.