Trump is a bad person. Why would anybody vote for him?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Apr 8, 2024.

  1. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Like Trump and Obama, he is evil because he has chosen not to end the despicable persecution of Julian Assange.
     
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  2. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No. In science, we need technical terms to communicate, and their validity -- their accurate identification of the concepts of interest -- is absolutely crucial to clear thinking about the issues. I have provided definitions of the technical terms I use so that I don't have to repeat long-winded descriptions.
    That is a fabrication on your part, as already proved.
    <sigh> No. I repeat:
    I have had many disputes with socialists on this and other forums because I argue for private property rights and the free market. They claim that makes me a defender of capitalism, which I am not. I am a passionate defender of rightful private property in the fruits of one's labor, which is why I hate wrongful private property in other people's rights to liberty. Clear?

    If you claim private property is always rightful -- which seems to be your claim -- then you are claiming that chattel slavery was rightful (and I have actually seen soi-disant "libertarians" -- more accurately called "propertarians" -- make that claim). If you admit that private property is not always rightful, you need to give an account of how to tell the difference between rightful and wrongful private property. And you can't. I can.

    Please re-read the above until you understand it. I won't be holding my breath.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  3. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    You're talking in a fuzzy vague language.

    At this exact point I wouldn't know because you have provided no reasons (and I know of none) to assume that.

    I have never been a Biden fan. But he has done a much better job as President than I expected. However, that's not what this thread is about. You disagreeing with his policies doesn't make him a bad man. I disagreed with Regan's and both of Bush's policies. In fact, they might have even committed crimes, in my opinion (which Biden hasn't). I would necessarily qualify them as "bad" in the sense the OP defines this. They were just lousy presidents.

    No. I'll demand you to tell me what the hell you're talking about. What did he do wrong? I wouldn't even demand proof as clear as Trump's that he did something that was unequivocally evil (torturing children). I'd settle for something at the level of the 16 women who accused him of sexual abuse. One of them had a court adjudication that demonstrates that he did. But, even leaving that aside, his OWN assertion that "she's not my type" and later confusing her with his wife... is an indicator. Or his infamous "grab them by the p***y" tape and later admission (under oath) that it WAS true that he believed what was on the tape. Something like that will do.

    What actions? Only thing I remember he did as VP regarding Ukraine is that he was part of a block of nations that demanded the dismissal of a corrupt prosecutor who refused to investigate corporate crimes. Again: WHAT the hell did he do wrong? Your whole post is vague. Is there something of substance further down?

    What? You'll wrap this up? Without even attempting to tell us WHAT the hell you were talking about when you said Biden is a bad man comparing him to Trump?

    If you thought better and wish to withdraw your statement, that's fine. It happens... and it has happened to me too. But you should be aware that you will be called out when you make statements like those.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
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  4. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    I just laugh at your stilted language and hysterical hatred of the market system. If someone owns something legally, then it is rightful. that is more legitimate than your views of what is rightful. Your views are extremist and not accepted by most
     
  5. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Too vague. What does that mean? Remember to include what personal benefit he obtained from... whatever it is he did. Just so we understand that it's not just some policy. Because Presidents DO have to make tough decisions like, for example, sending kids to die in a war. But that's a policy to address a specific problem. Trump tortured children because he knew that would please his sadistic xenophobic base, and he needed their support. But torture is wrong in national and international law. It is NOT part of the culture in which he lives. Washington owned slaves. That would be evil by today's standards. But it was part of the culture in which he grew up.

    I'm just speculation as to what you meant because you were too vague. So please be more specific.
     
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  6. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No, that is false, because everyone reading this knows that I communicate clearly and effectively in simple, grammatical English.
    No, that is a fabrication on your part. I favor the free market. You merely prefer a slave market because owning other people's rights to liberty is in your own narrow financial interest. If you were legally entitled to murder people and take their property, you would do it gladly because to you, no one else has any rights but legal ones that you would be punished for violating, and your only priority is your own narrow financial interest. You actually hate liberty, justice and truth because they are not in your own narrow financial interest.
    OK, so your position is that chattel slavery was rightful, and it was rightful for the Nazis to confiscate the property of Jews and take it for themselves. Fine. I wasn't expecting that much honesty from you, but you are not the first person I have seen taking that stance. It is an indisputably evil stance, but if that's the hill you want to die on, you do you.
    "Legitimate"? As in, "based on law"? Obviously what is based on law is based on law. My view is that laws are merely an attempt to formalize and codify what is already rightful independently of any law. Otherwise, how could we know what laws we should have, hmmmmm? If law is the only standard of right, how would we know when laws should be changed?

    Before you type one more word, please answer those questions.

    Your infantile -- and frankly evil and sociopathic -- view is that before our remote ancestors had any laws, they had no rights, and that it would therefore have been perfectly "legitimate" for you to rob, rape, enslave and murder them for your own enjoyment and benefit.
    While your views are nothing but naked, smirking, Satanic evil.

    I'm proud to be an extreme advocate of liberty, justice, and truth.
    Argumentum ad populorum fallacy.
     
  7. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    You mean for molestation and rape?

    If you're an Assange fan, I understand your ire against Trump. He promised him a full pardon in exchange for documents from the DNC to get him elected. Assange did his part. But because the documents didn't contain anything really nefarious, like Trump wanted, he didn't grant him the pardon. That was pretty despicable. I mean, not as despicable as Trump offering him the quid pro quo... But making dirty deals and then reneging on them is what Trump DOES.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
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  8. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Those accusers were paid US agents, and have recanted their accusations.
     
  9. conservaliberal

    conservaliberal Well-Known Member

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    I'm fuzzy, and I'm vague.... Well, I must struggle on in hopes of overcoming that. I'm 'wrapping it up' because evidently I've failed to find even the slightest amount of common ground with some of you in the liberal Left, even though I've made it crystal-clear that I don't ever want to see Donald Trump in the White House again!

    So, I'll just have to be content in the knowledge that even though this country has begun its irreversible death-spiral down into becoming a failed-state, the worse aspects of that end are still decades away. And the longer I live in this 21st-century world, the less I fear death.

    Be happy, Golem! At least your faction will have something to celebrate when the sun rises on the morning of November 6th! And people like me will be no worse off for it than we already are, so, Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da....

    [​IMG]. It, too, was truly great... while it lasted. :wink:
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  10. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    you godwined this thread. comparing our market system and property laws with the Nazis has disqualified your posts from ever being taken seriously by thinking humans
     
  11. Media_Truth

    Media_Truth Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trump is a childish, hateful, pundit with a junior-high-level mentality who calls his opponents "Birdbrain", "Shifty", "Demented", "Deranged", and much more. We need a statesman as president, not a sore loser crybaby.
     
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  12. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    The rape allegations were dropped by Sweden in 2017 because the statute of limitations expired. That was after Obama. The Obama administration declined to prosecute Assange for leaking classified information because they considered that his actions were no different from those of a Journalist. So your assessment about Obama is misguided. Under the Trump administration, Pompeo decided to re-open the case. Also, a special prosecutor appointed by the Trump administration and whom you might have heard of, called Robert Mueller, noted his participation in the intrusion into the DNC server. This investigation has not concluded and, having been initiated by a Special Counsel, the President cannot end it. That's the POINT of a Special Counsel.

    A President is "evil" because he does evil things like torturing children. NOT because you disagree with them. But, even then, your assessment was completely misinformed. An obvious attempt to water-down Trump's actions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
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  13. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Ok. So we ended with your fussy and vague "downward spiral" that you can't even describe. Let me know when you have overcome that, and can express a coherent and clear point without expecting us to guess.

    Thanks anyway...
     
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  14. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    An obvious honey trap.
     
  15. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Huh? THAT is your response? You SAID that Obama was evil for not dropping the case. I proved to you 1-that his administration DID drop the documents leaks case, and 2- that the rape allegations (in case you were referring to something related to those) were only dismissed by Sweden AFTER he left office. You said the same thing about Biden, even though I SHOWED that he can't do that because this investigation was initiated by a Special Counsel appointed by the TRUMP administration.

    Your answer should reflect the fact that you ADMIT you were wrong and promise to do better research next time (Read my sig!). If you have any expectation of projecting an image of being serious, that is....
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
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  16. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    BWAHAHHAHAAAAA!!

    No, I proved that your beliefs are false and evil because they are identical to the beliefs that justified historic atrocities like chattel slavery and the Nazis' legal confiscation of Jewish-owned property. One of the results of the Nuremberg trials was the conclusive rejection of your evil belief that legal property is always rightful.
    You are the one who made that comparison possible, relevant, and inevitable. The Nazis themselves justified their atrocities by citing our market system and property laws, along with your claim that whatever is legal is rightful. That is very much the point.
    BWAHAHAHHAAAA!!

    Do you think you can so easily evade the inescapable logical implications of your stated beliefs?

    No, TD. I proved that your claim that legal property is always rightful has disqualified your posts from ever being taken seriously by humans who are not greedy, despicable, evil, vicious sociopaths.

    And I will thank you to remember it.
     
  17. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Bless your heart...
     
  18. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    yawn. you haven't proved anything. all you do is utter extreme opinions and pretend they are factually correct
     
  19. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Now we know that what you write is not a result of any research whatsoever. Thanks for clarifying that...
     
  20. conservaliberal

    conservaliberal Well-Known Member

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    It's almost funny, and so predictable. We're like two quarreling Roman senators during the turbulent reign of Emperor Tacitus. Our American equivalent of "Diocletian" is still some years in the future, but it appears to be on track... and I sense you know what I'm talking about because you are an educated person with considerable depth.

    Let me offer you a 'laurel wreath' of triumph here by listing just a few of things that made Trump a bad man, and a worse president -- and then leave you in your opaque admiration for Biden, whose mind is crumbling like Feta cheese....

    Trump's behavior toward women has been like that of a selfish, overbearing satyr, obsessed only with his own shallow, momentary carnal pleasure.

    Trump concocted schemes to greatly misrepresent the value of property in an effort to secure loans for personal aggrandisement -- and somehow managed to convince banking professionals that his claims were valid! Fraud!

    It is by now evident that Trump had broken NSA protocols regarding the possession and misuse of classified information even though he was president when he took them into his personal property. And it is by no means clear that the documents in question were even stored in a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF) as defined by the NSA.

    Instead of imposing an executive order to enact an emergency moratorium on all migration into the United States as our southern border continued to be virtually overrun before and after he became president, Trump instead issued an executive order to build an ineffective, horribly expensive 1,550 mile-long 'wall'! Moreover, he blatantly lied to voters in the 2016 presidential campaign that Mexico would pay for that wall! Lies and more fraud!

    Icing on the cake? For what were revealed to be purely political motivations, Trump decided to order the permanent headquarters of U. S. Space Command to move from Colorado to Alabama. By 2020, Colorado had gone from being a "purple" swing-state to a definite "blue" Democrat-dominated state. Alabama, by contrast, was a solid "red" state, and Trump exhibited his well-known antipathy toward any who oppose him in any way. Bad decisions made by a peevish autocrat -- and not at all in the best interest of our Armed Forces, either.

    Now... perhaps you'll understand why myself and perhaps many other disaffected independent citizens specifically don't want Trump back in the White House. And, most unfortunately, the only other choice will be whatever Democrats finally decide to nominate in August -- and it's looking more and more now that it's going to be something even worse than another Biden/Harris ticket.

    But as I've already pointed out, we've been in a deepening decline since the time of Idiot "W" Bush, so it won't really make any difference to us, now will it...? November will come and go, and nothing will change materially. We'll merely be continuing on our overall downward trajectory as a nation... but enjoy your impending, inevitable liberal victory anyway. After all, somebody needs to be happy about something....
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
  21. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    BWAHAHHAAA!

    Denial ain't just a river in Africa.
    No, your claims continue to be objectively false. You cannot alter the facts by just calling them opinions, sorry. I have identified the relevant facts, which you have not even attempted to refute and never will, and their inescapable logical implications. All you have done is deny indisputable facts, offer transparently fallacious, disingenuous, and evil rationalizations that if valid would have justified known historic atrocities, and try to change the subject to me personally.
     
  22. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    you still haven't figured out that all you do is utter opinions that are devoid of actual facts. rather than supply facts, you use peculiar and affected terminology that you claim proves your extremist points. such as using the term "privilege" as some sort of totem for property rights. I note that I have yet to see anyone actually agree with the bullshit you spew.
     
  23. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Because no one should be able to use the POTUS as their excuse to commit crimes. Trump has more than any other politician (and I did not believe that until now possible given other US historic figures including Richard Nixon) sullied the meaning and sanctity of the position and all public offices.

    Your question asks why do we need to clean up the crap Trump smeared and continues to smear.

    If his crap is not cleaned how will that encourage anyone honest and ethical to run for any public office. The fact you even asked the question is sad.

    Look at how he has turned you into someone willing to settle for such crap and not worry about the precedent it will set.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
  24. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Hi can I debate you please. Its not meant to be personal but yes to challenge your position. Sorry if it sounds personal. When I use the word "you" I mean we the people not you personally. I did not want to use the word we as it would sound presumptuous that I speak for anyone but me.

    Ok that said, you can make an argument and many do that to become a Senator, Congressman, President or run for any public office there is a necessary corruptive process to get elected and remain in office.

    I get that but I would argue it does NOT excuse what Trump has done and continues to do. He has left a legacy for future generations that if not cleaned up will cause long term negative consequences.

    If you think this is not an issue of **** stains left by Trump and also applies to all other politicians and their **** stains too so is no big deal, that is I would argue a "what about ism" defense to what Trump has done and that does not excuse what he did.

    If you are arguing Trump is the level you think all US politics are at so he should not be accountable for what he has done you are part of the problem I would argue it necessarily means because you have lowered your ethical expectations to the point where they no longer exist and are used as an excuse to defend Trump.

    If you think all politicians have left **** stains including Biden why would you settle for any of them? That makes no sense.

    May I suggest in terms of the biggest **** stain to clean first it is Trump's.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
  25. conservaliberal

    conservaliberal Well-Known Member

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    Just to be very clear, please understand that I do not advocate that Trump should be allowed to escape justice if he is found guilty of committing or having committed any crimes!

    On the contrary, I don't even believe in many of those "presidential immunity" provisions... especially if charges are brought before a court that have nothing whatever to do with functions of the Executive Branch itself.

    How in hell have I given any impression that Donald Trump or anyone else should be able to commit proven crimes with impunity? This starts to become beyond frustrating....
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
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