Trump ordered to pay over $350M for business fraud

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Patricio Da Silva, Feb 16, 2024.

  1. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    31,653
    Likes Received:
    17,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    MBS, or maybe one of Putin's oligarchs under Putin direction.
     
    WillReadmore likes this.
  2. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Messages:
    41,172
    Likes Received:
    20,952
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And it's not just the Trumps. You're a business, doing any sort of market capital gains investment in NY and you just saw this judgment of 350 million. What's your confidence in investing in the State? High, low?(Unless you have that kind of money to burn, it's very low confidence.). This is why States tend not to go after 'giants' like Walmart and Amazon, because unless its blatant, the confidence to the economic system would just take a big hit.

    That's what's going to happen here. Speculative gains will be on the conservative side, for the forseeable future. And I mentioned the cost-cutting measures that will be seen. NY will lose about as much as they gain from this case, just by being a really nasty place for speculative gains. It's stupid. It did not protect the marketplace of the NY economy as Mr.Engorgan stated, it possibly ruined it over the long term. Or at minimum, constrained its growth potential.

    All investments carry risk, the smaller/lower the investment, the smaller the risk. But also, the smaller the reward. If big time capital leaves NY, NY isn't the kind of destination that people flock to(I mean, it has a strong fashion industry but.)

    NY's big cash cow is its speculative market. A market that now has a 350 M price bumper. I bet the Dow took a bit of a hit after the announcement.
     
  3. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    31,653
    Likes Received:
    17,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That's two claims, please substantiate both.
    Moot point unless you can substantiate your claims, which, of course, you cannot.
    See #174.

    If someone urinates in a pool you are swimming in, are you harmed?

    Probably not. What if every one in the pool did?

    That's why urinating in pools is against the rules in most, if not all, municipal swimming pools.

    That's why lying on bank applications is fraud, and against the law.

    One guy doing it, won't hurt you that much, unless everyone did it as egregiously as Trump did it.

    Yes, many businesses do it, a little, it has been acceptable that a 'range' is allowed, but Trump went far beyond that.
     
    Statistikhengst likes this.
  4. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    31,653
    Likes Received:
    17,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Apparently you know very little about the management policies of Deustche Bank, who was once fined $186 million for helping Russian oligarchs launder money.

    https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/enforcement20230719a.htm
    What is idiotic is to reach a conclusion without researching the facts.

    In Trump’s fraud case, it was revealed that the banks did not rely on independent appraisers. Instead, they used a modified version of Trump’s own numbers when assessing the value of properties for loans.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-upda...h-for-loan-banker-says-103900981?id=103642561

    Since the properties themselves were not provided as collateral, Deutsche Bank did not commission independent appraisals for them. The judge found that Trump and his co-defendants engaged in a years-long scheme to dupe banks and others with financial statements that inflated his wealth.

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-civil-fraud-trial-engoron-new-york-646814bb4945306f19a22f38fdb246a5
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2024
    Statistikhengst likes this.
  5. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    31,653
    Likes Received:
    17,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    When the state charges someone for counterfeiting, who complains? Usually no one.

    When you litter on the highway, who complains? Usually no one. You will be cited if caught.

    If you live in San Diego, and someone in L.A. is driving 50 mph in a 25 mph zone, are you harmed? Is anyone harmed if he didn't get into an accident?

    No, but you will be cited.

    Not all crimes have immediate victims, but the community is harmed.

    It is the reason the plaintiff on the indictment says

    " The People of New York v Donald J.Trump."

    'the people' are harmed. Their 'voice' is the NY AG, Leticia James.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2024
    Statistikhengst likes this.
  6. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    5,450
    Likes Received:
    4,077
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Does he have the cash? Assets is not cash and the value of the asset means doodly till you have sold it.
    No bank will help him and his sons, he cannot sell any of his NY properties without permission of the Baby Sitter.
    365 + 90 in interest, his legal cost, around 500 million, where is that money supposed to come. If he makes payments, then interest apply again.
    I would say he has a real problem at hand.
     
  7. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    5,015
    Likes Received:
    3,433
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Look, I told you I did not follow this case at all. I am simply shocked at the outcome. I am going by what I am reading in articles and available on google searches. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt that you followed this trial since you are so emphatic that they got it wrong. I am not a lawyer that is going to present you with the evidence. If you think the news sources are lying about the existence of fraudulent financial statements for more than a decade then simply provide a link to a source that supports your claim. You can't just be like a child an deny there is any evidence when the court system handed down a ruling with something like a 96 page document.
     
  8. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,782
    Likes Received:
    2,321
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What a crook. He should get jail time for this. And yet people are going to vote for him!
     
    Quantum Nerd likes this.
  9. Arkanis

    Arkanis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    13,442
    Likes Received:
    17,214
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    As if this were the first time that a New York company had been convicted of real estate assessment fraud....

    We're talking about it today because it's Trump's company but this kind of sentence happens every month.

    The message that justice has just sent is that if you violate the law you will be convicted... even if you are a former POTUS.
     
    Quantum Nerd likes this.
  10. Condor060

    Condor060 Banned Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    20,939
    Likes Received:
    15,445
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    DEFLECTION
    Management policies of Deutsche Bank have nothing to do with my post of banks doing their own due diligence for making commercial loans.
    But its all you had so theres that.

    Then you can provide the name of the banks defrauded and the amounts.
    I'll wait while you figure that out.
     
  11. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    25,799
    Likes Received:
    8,804
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You've got it completely backwards. What trump did is similar to the sub-prime mortgage crisis in 2008 that caused world wide bank crashes which started in New York. New York is now a safer place to invest in
     
    Quantum Nerd and cd8ed like this.
  12. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    41,985
    Likes Received:
    32,736
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No one gives a damn what DB feels.
    Why can’t you answer the question

    Is lying on a loan application ok or not?
    It’s not a complex question
     
    Quantum Nerd likes this.
  13. Lum Edwards

    Lum Edwards Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2022
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    160
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Trump, Guliani, and Alex Jones are really feeling the wrath of left-wing judges and juries. At what point do people start questioning some of these ridiculous penalties being imposed?
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2024
  14. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    5,015
    Likes Received:
    3,433
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Maybe you can help me with this. I have been conversing with @AFM in this thread about the case details but only get simple denials. I didn't follow this trial at all so I am trying to understand after reading about the judgement.

    Is this all about a loan application? Because if it is I am not sure it is big deal if someone misrepresented one. What I keep reading in articles is he misrepresented information on corporate financial document and did so for more than a decade. There is a duty to produce accurate financial statements since these are the documents that are used for things like loans, insurance and potential business partners. If our company was thinking about doing business with Trump we may ask to see their financial statements. There is an implicit level of trust with these documents since misrepresenting then is against the law. If they embellished those documents I can see why they ruled he committed fraud. If it was only a loan application provided by a bank it may have been filled out by a low level accounting clerk and mistakes are understandable. I heard they talked to the CFO about these documents so I am guessing it is not a simple loan application.
     
    cd8ed likes this.
  15. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Messages:
    41,172
    Likes Received:
    20,952
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    For me, it's a clear case to reform the law. Civil Law is skirting by the idea that they are not beholden to the 6th Amendment of the Constitution(In the same way Congress can claim it's not a court, but use judicial branch authority to uphold its political court)

    Screw that, I would love to legislate a modernization and tying it up into one universal code. So that lawyerese cannot create two separate tiers of justice. No other criminal defendant in US History faced nearly half a billion in legal judgments.

    And ideally, no other defendant ever will.
     
    Lum Edwards likes this.
  16. Lum Edwards

    Lum Edwards Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2022
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    160
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    I wish people would stop using the word fraud. Don't think it applies here. In order for there to be fraud, someone has to have been defrauded. Perhaps he did something wrong. Find the word that applies and use it please.
     
  17. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    36,075
    Likes Received:
    8,696
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are getting the truth. It’s not at all complicated.
     
  18. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    31,653
    Likes Received:
    17,139
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No my point is entirely relevant
    Since the reason you made that point was under the assumption that the bank that Trump dealt with would operate the same way and I prove that to be false.

    Not necessary for the point which you have failed to refute.
     
  19. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    36,075
    Likes Received:
    8,696
    Trophy Points:
    113
    DB does. Trump submitted what he thought the properties were worth. DN did due diligence and granted the loan.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2024
  20. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    26,410
    Likes Received:
    7,474
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ok. I'm out. You aren't being reasonable and you're not making sense.
     
    Statistikhengst likes this.
  21. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    5,015
    Likes Received:
    3,433
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What do you mean? I am reading he was convicted of fraud because he misrepresented financial statements. That is a serious problem and would impact all executives responsible for those documents. That would probably no be true for a loan application.

    Look I will make it simple for you and maybe we can agree on this. IF it is only a loan application then I am on your side. IF it was financial statements then you are on the side of the courts. Agreed?
     
    Lum Edwards likes this.
  22. randlepatrickmcmurphy

    randlepatrickmcmurphy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,799
    Likes Received:
    634
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, he's a self-professed billionaire so he should have no problem coming up with this amount.
     
    Statistikhengst likes this.
  23. randlepatrickmcmurphy

    randlepatrickmcmurphy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,799
    Likes Received:
    634
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He can always sell his golden toilet.
     
    Arkanis likes this.
  24. randlepatrickmcmurphy

    randlepatrickmcmurphy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,799
    Likes Received:
    634
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Except Biden has been "hands off" with the DOJ. He knows Trump is guilty of everything. Trump is jailing himself because of hubris and stupidity. This was inevitable. Trump, on the other hand, has publicly stated he will jail his opponents. We saved America from Banana Republic status in 2020 and we will do it again in 9 months.
     
  25. Condor060

    Condor060 Banned Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    20,939
    Likes Received:
    15,445
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So you can't provide a single bank that was defrauded or any amount defrauded.
    Thanks for the confirmation
     

Share This Page